Time For Mike Thomas To Think Bigger

[bearcat jeff]

Mike Thomas needs to start to understand who he is competing against in the Big East. He needs to accept that being in the Big East Conference means having a responsibility to the athletic programs and the fans who never asked to be placed in this environment. If UC is to move forward as an athletic power, it can't be done by coaching hires alone. It has to move forward with the full backing of the Athletic Department and University as a whole. This includes the money donors and boosters.

The next few days of drama and rumor surrounding Mick Cronin is not so much about the coach and the job he's done, as it is about the support system around him. What are the movers and shakers willing to do? Is Cincinnati willing to be a small fish in a big pond, with built in competitive disadvantages, or is it willing to change it's mindset and be a player at the table year in and year out?

We live in the era of the sell. In a time where athletes are treated like stars from junior high on. They want exposure, they want to be pampered, they want environment, and they want to win. You can't win without good players and you can't get all the good players you need if you are at a recruiting disadvantage.

The next fews days will tell us something about our Athletic Director. It'll tell us something about the Unversity and the people that made the decision to move this school into the Big East Conference. Do they want to just sit at the table or or are they willing to expand their vision and do what's necessary to continue to move toward the front of the table? Ultimately it is their decision, not Mick Cronins, that will shape the future of the University of Cincinnati athletics.

 

[JasonS]

If Mike Thomas wants to run an athletic department like a MAC school, then he needs to go back to being an AD at a MAC school. UC needs an athletic director who can sell what UC has to offer to the big money donors. I don't believe Mike Thomas is that guy. UC had an Athletic Director with a vision in Bob Goin. He was not shy about what he wanted and what it would take to get there. We need someone with a vision to take UC to the next level. Someone with charisma. Someone who won't accept no as an answer from donors.

 

[bearcat jeff]

If Mike Thomas wants to run an athletic department like a MAC school, then he needs to go back to being an AD at a MAC school. UC needs an athletic director who can sell what UC has to offer to the big money donors. I don't believe Mike Thomas is that guy. UC had an Athletic Director with a vision in Bob Goin. He was not shy about what he wanted and what it would take to get there. We need someone with a vision to take UC to the next level. Someone with charisma. Someone who won't accept no as an answer from donors.

I was just thinking yesterday that I wish Bob Goin was still here.

 

[AAABearcat]

I am not sure who these big donors are; that either are not giving to the university now or have no intention of giving in the future. The first thing that has to happen is that the rifts that developed in the last 6 years has to heal without the constant picking at the scabs.
Attendance is not what it should be and that should be addressed first, the more popular the school is, the more likely it is to have someone step out and be that big donor. I am always a amused when people with a cause think that other people should spend their money on their cause.
BTW, the "fans" have been clamoring to be put in a Big Time conference for at least 50 years; it's the idiot administors who screwed it up several years ago.

 

[GoCatsGo]

Who said Mike Thomas wants to run UC like a MAC program? I hear that but have never seen any evidence of it. Whether his hands are tied I don't know, but the guy doesn't settle. I don't think your perceptions are reality.

As far as wanting Goin back, I'll take Thomas ten times over Goin. I liked Goin when he was here, but looking back he left the athletic department with tons of construction debt, a $7 million ANNUAL budget deficit, and built a beautiful office building that can create zero revenue right where it meant Nippert could NEVER be expanded.

I'm editing to say I do think Thomas could do a better job of getting information out. That doesn't mean he's not doing things right, though - looking at what he's accomplished I think he's very, very good. Most of the great ADs around the country are behind the scenes more than not, but it probably wouldn't hurt for him to be more proactive in that area.

 

[TheLongHaul]

I was just thinking yesterday that I wish Bob Goin was still here.

I liked Goin but his "vision" with Varsity Village is a huge reason why the athletic department is in such a mess right now. Varsity Village is a great athletic complex, but it has put UC in such high amounts of debt that they are really struggling financially. UC doesn't have any money mostly due to the debt that VV consumed.

 

[JasonS]

I liked Goin but his "vision" with Varsity Village is a huge reason why the athletic department is in such a mess right now. Varsity Village is a great athletic complex, but it has put UC in such high amounts of debt that they are really struggling financially. UC doesn't have any money mostly due to the debt that VV consumed.

Without VV UC is not in the Big East. Also, when UC entered the Big East there was an expectation that UC would put forth the necessary resources to compete. That has not been happening. I think VV is a convenient excuse to be honest.

 

[TheLongHaul]

Without VV UC is not in the Big East. Also, when UC entered the Big East there was an expectation that UC would put forth the necessary resources to compete. That has not been happening. I think VV is a convenient excuse to be honest.

I don't think it's an excuse at all. UC is seriously strapped financially. And a lot of that is because of VV and all the debt they took on. Like I said, VV is a great athletic complex, however, it didn't include updating basketball facilities or football facilities. They would still be in the Big East w/o VV. Regardless of what people think, Goin got UC in the Big East with the football program. The basketball program took a huge hit with the Huggins fiasco and still hasn't recovered. They aren't making much money with basketball, they have to pay off huge sums of debt with VV, and that is why IMO they aren't putting all the resources out there....they just don't have them. They obviously have enough resources to finish 7th in the BE and I think they could have done better and will do better next year.

 

[JasonS]

I don't think it's an excuse at all. UC is seriously strapped financially. And a lot of that is because of VV and all the debt they took on. Like I said, VV is a great athletic complex, however, it didn't include updating basketball facilities or football facilities. They would still be in the Big East w/o VV. Regardless of what people think, Goin got UC in the Big East with the football program. The basketball program took a huge hit with the Huggins fiasco and still hasn't recovered. They aren't making much money with basketball, they have to pay off huge sums of debt with VV, and that is why IMO they aren't putting all the resources out there....they just don't have them. They obviously have enough resources to finish 7th in the BE and I think they could have done better and will do better next year.

You're crazy if you think UC was attractive because of the football program. UC was attractive to the Big East because of the vision and plan for UC athletics that Bob Goin presented to the conference. VV was a HUGE part of that. UC never had a program that even showed the ability to compete on a National level. To be honest, UC got lucky that BK was able to coach up the players he had. Without UC's success on the basketball court, they would have never been considered. Sure the Big East wanted schools with football programs but there had to be a reason for them to pick a school. DePaul got the Big East in the Chicago market. South Florida got them in Florida. Louisville has a big time athletic budget and commitment to winning. UC had a marquee basketball program and a football program with potential. UC's commitment to improving their facilities through VV was a big reason that UC was able to get an invite to the Big East.

UC can have success in the short term, but people will need to change their expectations of all the programs if UC isn't willing to step up to the plate. If Mike Thomas can't find people or companies to help financially, then it is time to find a new AD. If you want to compete for a title once every 4 or 5 years in basketball and football, fine, but I don't want to hear people calling for the coaches' heads when the teams don't win or when the best recruits are picking Kentucky, Purdue, UCONN, Louisville, or Ohio State instead of UC. The coaches have to have something to recruit to.

 

[TheLongHaul]

You're crazy if you think UC was attractive because of the football program. UC was attractive to the Big East because of the vision and plan for UC athletics that Bob Goin presented to the conference. VV was a HUGE part of that. UC never had a program that even showed the ability to compete on a National level. To be honest, UC got lucky that BK was able to coach up the players he had. Without UC's success on the basketball court, they would have never been considered. Sure the Big East wanted schools with football programs but there had to be a reason for them to pick a school. DePaul got the Big East in the Chicago market. South Florida got them in Florida. Louisville has a big time athletic budget and commitment to winning. UC had a marquee basketball program and a football program with potential. UC's commitment to improving their facilities through VV was a big reason that UC was able to get an invite to the Big East.

UC can have success in the short term, but people will need to change their expectations of all the programs if UC isn't willing to step up to the plate. If Mike Thomas can't find people or companies to help financially, then it is time to find a new AD. If you want to compete for a title once every 4 or 5 years in basketball and football, fine, but I don't want to hear people calling for the coaches' heads when the teams don't win or when the best recruits are picking Kentucky, Purdue, UCONN, Louisville, or Ohio State instead of UC. The coaches have to have something to recruit to.

Than I'm crazy. I won't go into it or the reasons why I say I know this, but that is what I was told at the time by someone who knows. If you don't want to believe me, that's your prerogative and I don't blame you. VV definitely helped, but the Big East wanted Cincy because of the potential of the football program. That is why Memphis didn't get accepted. The basketball program was a huge plus at the time. Again, VV didn't even really do much for the basketball and football programs.

Cronin has plenty of things to recruit to and he has done a good job of that. I don't care what UC gives him, UC will always be second fiddle to the likes of UK, UL, IU, and even OSU. That's just the way it is. Let's quit making so many excuses for him.

 

[JasonS]

Cronin has plenty of things to recruit to and he has done a good job of that. I don't care what UC gives him, UC will always be second fiddle to the likes of UK, UL, IU, and even OSU. That's just the way it is. Let's quit making so many excuses for him.

You really believe this? I'll give you UK and IU. There is no reason for UC to play second fiddle to OSU or UL.

 

[TheLongHaul]

You really believe this? I'll give you UK and IU. There is no reason for UC to play second fiddle to OSU or UL.

Yes, because UC will never have the money that OSU does, not even close. And UL gets 20,000+ to their games. I don't ever see that happening with UC. Also, in Louisville, you have UL and that's it. Keep in mind, I'm not saying UC will always be worse than them, but they will always be second fiddle when it comes to money, facilities, etc. UC can compete on the court with them.

 

[ralph1950]

Mike Thomas has to work within a budget, the Athletic Department cannot spend more than it takes in. UC is lacking in alumni donations, the percent of total alumni that donate to the school is something like 1.5%, this is at the bottom or very near the bottom of the Big East. Richard Lindner, the number one contributor, Varsity Village is named after him, died in January of 2010. The Sheakley family has donated a few million, after them I do not know of any big time donators. UC does not have a Phil Knight or T Boone Pickens. If UC wants to build a new facility such as a basketball practice center or new arena the money has to be on hand before construction begins, money to pay for facilities cannot be borrowed.

If all of UC's 200,000 living alumni would donate $1,000 to the athletic department UC will have the best facilities in the Big East.

 

[Bearcat_NTS]

You really believe this? I'll give you UK and IU. There is no reason for UC to play second fiddle to OSU or UL.

UL's BASKETBALL revenue is in the Top 10 for collegiate sports, the other 9 are college football teams....we will have difficulty competing with that sort of $$$$

tO$U is the largest and most funded school in Ohio...good luck with that one too.

 

[JasonS]

Well I guess it is a lost cause then. Let's just quit now while we're ahead....or at least not too far behind. This idea that new donors and sponsors cannot be found is ridiculous. I hope you guys aren't in sales and if you are, I hope your current customers are enough to get you bye. Yikes.

 

[Bearcat_NTS]

Well I guess it is a lost cause then. Let's just quit now while we're ahead....or at least not too far behind. This idea that new donors and sponsors cannot be found is ridiculous. I hope you guys aren't in sales and if you are, I hope your current customers are enough to get you bye. Yikes.

There is no doubt UC can become a much better revenue producing University than it is now....a visionary AD like Goin looks good right about now

 

[JasonS]

There is no doubt UC can become a much better revenue producing University than it is now....a visionary AD like Goin looks good right about now

That is my point. Love or hate Goin, I don't care. I just don't know that Mike Thomas is the visionary AD that we need right now. I hope I am wrong and I will be the first to eat crow. I just don't know that I am. They guy did an excellent job in hiring coaches. I will give him that. We need more than that though.

 

[TheLongHaul]

That is my point. Love or hate Goin, I don't care. I just don't know that Mike Thomas is the visionary AD that we need right now. I hope I am wrong and I will be the first to eat crow. I just don't know that I am. They guy did an excellent job in hiring coaches. I will give him that. We need more than that though.

What exactly is it you want Thomas to do? Please give specifics, not generalities that don't mean anything like "provide a vision". UC doesn't have money. You need money to get things done. Can't build new facilities without money. Can't give coaches top pay without money. It sounds like you think it's as simple as walking up to a few millionaires and asking them to donate. It's a little harder that. I'm not saying Thomas is the best salesman or fundraiser, but what happens when he tries to get the donors to step up and they just don't want to? Chances are the big time donors don't want to put millions into a program that has had one good year. Keep in mind whether you want to hear it or not, there is still a large base of people that just do not like Cronin for whatever reason. That includes some of the bigger donors. And Thomas isn't alone, selling the program also falls into the hands of Cronin. He is the face of the basketball team, not Thomas.

 

[JasonS]

What exactly is it you want Thomas to do? Please give specifics, not generalities that don't mean anything like "provide a vision". UC doesn't have money. You need money to get things done. Can't build new facilities without money. Can't give coaches top pay without money. It sounds like you think it's as simple as walking up to a few millionaires and asking them to donate. It's a little harder that. I'm not saying Thomas is the best salesman or fundraiser, but what happens when he tries to get the donors to step up and they just don't want to? Chances are the big time donors don't want to put millions into a program that has had one good year. Keep in mind whether you want to hear it or not, there is still a large base of people that just do not like Cronin for whatever reason. That includes some of the bigger donors. And Thomas isn't alone, selling the program also falls into the hands of Cronin. He is the face of the basketball team, not Thomas.

99% of coaches around America don't have to raise money for their programs in addition to recruiting and coaching and winning. I want Mike Thomas to make a better effort to raise funds. If he can't do it, find someone who can. It is not the coach's job to go out to all the big potential donors and try to convince them to give money. His job is to put a winning product on the court that they can embrace. You want to absolve Mike Thomas from all the debt he inherited yet crucify Cronin for only having one good year. Don't you see the ridiculousness in that? Cronin inherited a situation much worse than Thomas did and he is coming out of it smelling like roses. UC is in no better position than it was financially 5 years ago. Does that all fall on Thomas? No. But it falls on his desk way more than it does Cronin or Butch Jones' desks. The only thing that Thomas has given the fans since he was hired was that ridiculous Catapult program in which every team needs to compete for Big East titles in 5 years. 5 years is up and what has Mike Thomas done to help the programs? He has hired a few coaches and got a practice bubble built (more a credit to BK than Mike Thomas but whatever, I'll give him the credit for it). I want him to explain what the University is going to do to help all the athletic programs compete for titles. I don't think that is too much to ask.

 

[TheLongHaul]

You are trying to put words into my mouth. I never crucified Cronin for anything. I know the situation he inherited full and well. But from a donors perspective, he just finished his first good season and all of a sudden MT should be raking in the donations? It just doesn't work like that.

And you are 100% wrong about coaches raising money. Coaches around America do have to raise money for their program. Just about every coach in America has golf outings, dinners with donors, and other various activities that are put on in order to raise money for the team. It's also done to get face time with the high rollers. The closer the coach is to the donors, the better. The donors care about the coach, not the AD. You don't think Calipari goes around schmoozing with the UK boosters? You think he does that just for the hell of it.

Thomas inherited the same situation Cronin did. Thomas started right after the fiasco with Huggins happened. Talk about being put into a horrible situation. On top of that he took over a football program that had only experienced mild success and was not getting good fan support. In his time he made the best football hire in the history of UC football and the program rose to heights never before seen. He hired the basketball coach that was able to rebuild the program and showed the patience that few AD's would show.