Bearcat1234
Member
- Joined
- Jul 20, 2016
- Messages
- 8
(Coming from a Houston Fan who comes in peace)
Additions:
Houston
Cincinnati
Boise State
BYU
The Big 12 would be divided into two 7 team divisions, an East and West.
WEST
Boise State
BYU
Iowa State (Could be switched out for another school from East like TTU if conferences are too lopsided)
Kansas
Kansas State
Oklahoma
Oklahoma State
EAST
Baylor
Cincinnati
Houston
TCU
Texas
Texas Tech
West Virginia
Depending on how BYU and Boise State come along, EAST might be overpowered compared to WEST much as old B12 South was to North. Might have to switch out Iowa State for Texas Tech to balance it out. However, would be nice to keep all Texas schools in same division.
Rationale:
Houston
One of best coaches in CFB IMO, incredible upward trend, already out-recruiting most Big 12 schools, new and expandable stadium, passionate and rapidly growing fan base, and positioned for a Playoff Run and possible NC as a Group of 5 school (Only other G5 team to ever be positioned for a chance at NC was Boise). Only thing worried about is likely pushback from Texas schools.
Cincinnati
A former member of Big East, Cincinnati seems to check all the boxes. Large stadium, large fan base, Cincinnati metro area and subsequent media market, consistent success (BCS Bowl), and large athletic budget. Would also be a great addition to Big 12 hoops, as Cincy has been a very good basketball school. Another very important role Cincinnati fills, is they would also provide the long desired travel partner for West Virginia and rivalry from the old Big East.
Boise State and BYU:
While media markets are nice, they aren’t everything. The quality and consistency of the product on the field, incredibly passionate fans, intense rivalries, and great gameday atmospheres are what separate conferences like the SEC from the rest. BYU and Boise would bring all of the above to the table for the Big 12 and thus why I think they would make excellent additions.
First and foremost, the two schools would be travel partners due to their geographic location. It also doesn’t hurt that a rather heated rivalry has emerged between the two schools, as their fans will tell you, and they are already scheduled to play annually through the year 2023. I don’t think it is hard to argue that one of the things that makes great conferences are heated rivalrie, and adding these two schools would certainly add quite a few of those. In addition to a rivalry with each other, there is also the potential for some heated rivalries with current Big 12 members. Boise has a good deal of prior history with TCU from Mountain West days, and in BCS bowl games. Also, who can forget the Fiesta Bowl game with Oklahoma. I imagine OU fans get pretty tired of seeing that lateral and statue of liberty play over and over. Would be interesting to see the Boise and OU every year (as they would both being in the West). Also, BYU sure has gotten under UT’s skin the way they have run them off the field in recent years.
From a pure football perspective, it would be hard to find two better options than BYU and Boise. BYU has a national championship and is perhaps the most storied non-P5 program other than Notre Dame. And no team has sustained success over the past decade like Boise. Since 1999, Boise State has a record of 10-4 in bowl games, posted an overall record of 186-35, won 11 conference championships, three Fiesta Bowls, including one of the greatest games in college football history, and finished in the Top 25 in 10 of those seasons. The Broncos finished No. 4 overall in 2009 in both major polls, No. 5 (AP) and No. 6 (Coaches Poll) in 2006, and No. 8 and No. 6 in 2011 respectively.
Stadium and attendance wise, they are also two very strong candidates. Both with attendance of well over 90%+ sustained over many years, including relatively down years for each. BYU’s stadium seats over 60,000, bigger than many P5 schools. While smaller at capacity of only 37,000, Boise’s Albertsons Stadium was built with the idea of expansion in place and would thus be able to be quickly pursued. Fully expanded, capacity would move up to 53,000.
The two knocks on Boise would be media market and academics. Boise’s metro area ranks 81st, but is ahead of place like Madison and Des Moines. That said, Boise (as does BYU) has one of the largest national followings as is reflected by the school’s relationship with ESPN and the subsequent ratings of those games. This national name recognition is perhaps best reflected by both school’s ability to get neutral games scheduled versus major P5 competition at major locations (BYU vs OU and UT at Jerry World, Boise vs UGA at Georgia Dome, etc). You don’t see schools like Memphis, USF, UCF, etc generating that type of clout.
And ultimately if need be, another possibility would be adding BYU and Boise as football only schools.
Additional Possibilities and Why Didn't Make the Cut:
Memphis
Baylor’s discretions are more than worthy of having them removed from the Big 12 (or at least they should be). In which case, they could simply be replaced with Houston which would reduce the pushback from the Texas schools as it would keep the number of Texas schools in the conference the same. It would also leave an extra spot to pursue Memphis, who I think would also make an excellent addition. Located in SEC country and fertile recruiting grounds, it would hurt the SEC (Ole Miss, Tennessee, and Arkansas in particular), the Memphis market, add an excellent basketball school, and the sponsorship of a multi-national corporation in Fed-Ex.
From a football perspective however, Memphis certainly doesn’t look as bright. It has always been a basketball school and last year’s football success (despite somewhat falling apart down the stretch) appears to be much more of a flash in the pan than any sort trend. Unlike Houston, Memphis was unable to retain their HC in Fuente, the coach that engineered last year’s turnaround. They also lost their all-everything star QB in Lynch. Thus, it seems much more likely that their revert to their historical mean than continue last year’s success. Their stadium is also incredibly out dated and in need of replacement.
USF and UCF
Seen these two brought up a lot. Their strength would be that they would supposedly open up Florida as a recruiting ground as well as provide access to some very large media markets.
However, neither have had any sustained success over multiple years and are both coming off poor years. Yes, they are located in Florida, possibly the richest recruiting ground in the country. It is also one of the most competitive recruiting grounds in the country. You have the obvious in state schools FSU, UF, and Miami fighting over talent. You also have ACC and SEC schools annually raiding the state (Clemson, Auburn, Alabama, UGA, Tennessee, UNC, etc). Not to mention national powers such as Ohio State and Notre Dame who pull more than their fair share of elite talent from the state. Even with the additional clout of a P5 conference affiliation, unless either school managed to find a needle in the haystack that is a Tom Herman, UCF and USF are not poaching any recruits from all that competition. And neither are any of the other Big 12 schools other than OU and UT (who are national programs themselves and would do so anyway) and possibly West Virginia due to a lot of connections that WVU has built down in South Florida.
Also, neither have anything special going as far as fanbases, and attendance certainly reflects this. Miami can’t even fill their stadium to a respectable level, even when they field a decent team playing in the ACC. What makes anyone think USF will fare better? Despite a rather good season last year and the likes of Memphis, Temple, and Cincinnati all coming to town, USF was never able to get more than 27,000 folks to attend. Not to mention that they don’t have their own stadium and rather play at Raymond James, which seats over 65,000 and making what few folks do attend seem even smaller than it actually is. UCF did have an awesome season in 2014, but has since fallen off the face of the earth and will take a good long while to build back up.
Additions:
Houston
Cincinnati
Boise State
BYU
The Big 12 would be divided into two 7 team divisions, an East and West.
WEST
Boise State
BYU
Iowa State (Could be switched out for another school from East like TTU if conferences are too lopsided)
Kansas
Kansas State
Oklahoma
Oklahoma State
EAST
Baylor
Cincinnati
Houston
TCU
Texas
Texas Tech
West Virginia
Depending on how BYU and Boise State come along, EAST might be overpowered compared to WEST much as old B12 South was to North. Might have to switch out Iowa State for Texas Tech to balance it out. However, would be nice to keep all Texas schools in same division.
Rationale:
Houston
One of best coaches in CFB IMO, incredible upward trend, already out-recruiting most Big 12 schools, new and expandable stadium, passionate and rapidly growing fan base, and positioned for a Playoff Run and possible NC as a Group of 5 school (Only other G5 team to ever be positioned for a chance at NC was Boise). Only thing worried about is likely pushback from Texas schools.
Cincinnati
A former member of Big East, Cincinnati seems to check all the boxes. Large stadium, large fan base, Cincinnati metro area and subsequent media market, consistent success (BCS Bowl), and large athletic budget. Would also be a great addition to Big 12 hoops, as Cincy has been a very good basketball school. Another very important role Cincinnati fills, is they would also provide the long desired travel partner for West Virginia and rivalry from the old Big East.
Boise State and BYU:
While media markets are nice, they aren’t everything. The quality and consistency of the product on the field, incredibly passionate fans, intense rivalries, and great gameday atmospheres are what separate conferences like the SEC from the rest. BYU and Boise would bring all of the above to the table for the Big 12 and thus why I think they would make excellent additions.
First and foremost, the two schools would be travel partners due to their geographic location. It also doesn’t hurt that a rather heated rivalry has emerged between the two schools, as their fans will tell you, and they are already scheduled to play annually through the year 2023. I don’t think it is hard to argue that one of the things that makes great conferences are heated rivalrie, and adding these two schools would certainly add quite a few of those. In addition to a rivalry with each other, there is also the potential for some heated rivalries with current Big 12 members. Boise has a good deal of prior history with TCU from Mountain West days, and in BCS bowl games. Also, who can forget the Fiesta Bowl game with Oklahoma. I imagine OU fans get pretty tired of seeing that lateral and statue of liberty play over and over. Would be interesting to see the Boise and OU every year (as they would both being in the West). Also, BYU sure has gotten under UT’s skin the way they have run them off the field in recent years.
From a pure football perspective, it would be hard to find two better options than BYU and Boise. BYU has a national championship and is perhaps the most storied non-P5 program other than Notre Dame. And no team has sustained success over the past decade like Boise. Since 1999, Boise State has a record of 10-4 in bowl games, posted an overall record of 186-35, won 11 conference championships, three Fiesta Bowls, including one of the greatest games in college football history, and finished in the Top 25 in 10 of those seasons. The Broncos finished No. 4 overall in 2009 in both major polls, No. 5 (AP) and No. 6 (Coaches Poll) in 2006, and No. 8 and No. 6 in 2011 respectively.
Stadium and attendance wise, they are also two very strong candidates. Both with attendance of well over 90%+ sustained over many years, including relatively down years for each. BYU’s stadium seats over 60,000, bigger than many P5 schools. While smaller at capacity of only 37,000, Boise’s Albertsons Stadium was built with the idea of expansion in place and would thus be able to be quickly pursued. Fully expanded, capacity would move up to 53,000.
The two knocks on Boise would be media market and academics. Boise’s metro area ranks 81st, but is ahead of place like Madison and Des Moines. That said, Boise (as does BYU) has one of the largest national followings as is reflected by the school’s relationship with ESPN and the subsequent ratings of those games. This national name recognition is perhaps best reflected by both school’s ability to get neutral games scheduled versus major P5 competition at major locations (BYU vs OU and UT at Jerry World, Boise vs UGA at Georgia Dome, etc). You don’t see schools like Memphis, USF, UCF, etc generating that type of clout.
And ultimately if need be, another possibility would be adding BYU and Boise as football only schools.
Additional Possibilities and Why Didn't Make the Cut:
Memphis
Baylor’s discretions are more than worthy of having them removed from the Big 12 (or at least they should be). In which case, they could simply be replaced with Houston which would reduce the pushback from the Texas schools as it would keep the number of Texas schools in the conference the same. It would also leave an extra spot to pursue Memphis, who I think would also make an excellent addition. Located in SEC country and fertile recruiting grounds, it would hurt the SEC (Ole Miss, Tennessee, and Arkansas in particular), the Memphis market, add an excellent basketball school, and the sponsorship of a multi-national corporation in Fed-Ex.
From a football perspective however, Memphis certainly doesn’t look as bright. It has always been a basketball school and last year’s football success (despite somewhat falling apart down the stretch) appears to be much more of a flash in the pan than any sort trend. Unlike Houston, Memphis was unable to retain their HC in Fuente, the coach that engineered last year’s turnaround. They also lost their all-everything star QB in Lynch. Thus, it seems much more likely that their revert to their historical mean than continue last year’s success. Their stadium is also incredibly out dated and in need of replacement.
USF and UCF
Seen these two brought up a lot. Their strength would be that they would supposedly open up Florida as a recruiting ground as well as provide access to some very large media markets.
However, neither have had any sustained success over multiple years and are both coming off poor years. Yes, they are located in Florida, possibly the richest recruiting ground in the country. It is also one of the most competitive recruiting grounds in the country. You have the obvious in state schools FSU, UF, and Miami fighting over talent. You also have ACC and SEC schools annually raiding the state (Clemson, Auburn, Alabama, UGA, Tennessee, UNC, etc). Not to mention national powers such as Ohio State and Notre Dame who pull more than their fair share of elite talent from the state. Even with the additional clout of a P5 conference affiliation, unless either school managed to find a needle in the haystack that is a Tom Herman, UCF and USF are not poaching any recruits from all that competition. And neither are any of the other Big 12 schools other than OU and UT (who are national programs themselves and would do so anyway) and possibly West Virginia due to a lot of connections that WVU has built down in South Florida.
Also, neither have anything special going as far as fanbases, and attendance certainly reflects this. Miami can’t even fill their stadium to a respectable level, even when they field a decent team playing in the ACC. What makes anyone think USF will fare better? Despite a rather good season last year and the likes of Memphis, Temple, and Cincinnati all coming to town, USF was never able to get more than 27,000 folks to attend. Not to mention that they don’t have their own stadium and rather play at Raymond James, which seats over 65,000 and making what few folks do attend seem even smaller than it actually is. UCF did have an awesome season in 2014, but has since fallen off the face of the earth and will take a good long while to build back up.