Bcat has dedicated himself to hating Wes Miller and all the players who entered the transfer portal (blaming them for Brannen being fired I guess). Not sure if he is personally associated with Brannen or just decided to do his best JustinHub impression. I've taken to just ignoring him.
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@Wichita St
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Bcat has dedicated himself to hating Wes Miller and all the players who entered the transfer portal (blaming them for Brannen being fired I guess). Not sure if he is personally associated with Brannen or just decided to do his best JustinHub impression. I've taken to just ignoring him.
I planned to do a post on this when we were 20 games in and the numbers started to mean something. Miya's stats can fill in the gaps between what individual stats show. There still aren't enough possessions to draw definitive conclusions, but it's still interesting.
The thing that stands out most to me is that Koval is our best offensive player per BPR. It think that's mostly because we play a 5 out offense with him on the floor, which makes up for our lack of half court schemes.
Although Ody's individual number isn't great, our best overall lineup (by far) is our starting 5 but swapping Ody for Ado. That tells me Ody struggles when he plays alongside other bench players, but really thrives with experienced guards who can compensate for his mistakes and leverage his strengths.
Our best defensive lineup is Saunders/DDJ/Madsen/Ody/Lakhin. None of those guys are disciplined defenders like Newman and MAW, but they are all extremely active and take risks. It's the chaos lineup.
The best offensive lineup is Saunders/DDJ/Newman/Ody/Lakhin. It's interesting that simply swapping Madsen for Newman changes the lineup from best defense to best offense. This lineup is four players who can get in the lane plus our best interior finisher.
Koval certainly provides some interesting options at the top of the key either when setting a pick or when he is reversing the ball etc. The big guarding him can't sag all the way down to the FT line like they do on Ado. Also when they are trying to blow up the screen you have to account for both players in the end. He also made a super easy pass to Newman in the paint because he looked for it rather than just reversing the ball like Ody and Ado.
He only takes good shots (and few of them) so his rating doesn't surprise me a lot. But those other options that opened up while he was in the game explain some of his plus minus numbers as well. It's probably just easier for this team when his skill set is in and we are dragging opposing bigs out of the lane (all the way out). Defensively he's the all time leading blocker right now and his thin frame isn't enough of a liability to offset his assets.
Koval certainly provides some interesting options at the top of the key either when setting a pick or when he is reversing the ball etc. The big guarding him can't sag all the way down to the FT line like they do on Ado. Also when they are trying to blow up the screen you have to account for both players in the end. He also made a super easy pass to Newman in the paint because he looked for it rather than just reversing the ball like Ody and Ado.
He only takes good shots (and few of them) so his rating doesn't surprise me a lot. But those other options that opened up while he was in the game explain some of his plus minus numbers as well. It's probably just easier for this team when his skill set is in and we are dragging opposing bigs out of the lane (all the way out). Defensively he's the all time leading blocker right now and his thin frame isn't enough of a liability to offset his assets.
Just think of when Koval or Ado reverses the ball from the key to the wing. Let's say the wing wants to try to drive the lane. In the case of Ado they see a big dude already waiting at the FT line (so they don't even try) and in the case of Koval they see a soft spot in the middle.
We are already challenged as a team to get the ball in the lane from the wing as we just don't have all the skills. But it's 3 times more difficult to do that with a big man waiting in the middle of the lane already. It might be why Koval leads the team in adjusted plus minus numbers when that's not what anyone would expect.
To make matters worse I would ask you...where on the court would you be guarding Ado (if anywhere)? And I am not trying to be nasty. My answer would be hardly anywhere even under the bucket if I am within 5 ft of him. Because he can't or doesn't shoot outside of 5 ft and he almost never goes up directly for a dunk without hesitating first.
It's almost like playing 4 on 5 when we are on offense. And the 5th guy is also getting in the way. This doesn't mean we can't use Ado...especially in defensive situations or when we are getting abused inside etc.
But he is an absolute offense killer IMO in more ways than one. Which is probably why his plus minus numbers are much worse than Koval and Ody
It's almost like playing 4 on 5 when we are on offense. And the 5th guy is also getting in the way. This doesn't mean we can't use Ado...especially in defensive situations or when we are getting abused inside etc.
But he is an absolute offense killer IMO in more ways than one. Which is probably why his plus minus numbers are much worse than Koval and Ody
To make matters worse I would ask you...where on the court would you be guarding Ado (if anywhere)? And I am not trying to be nasty. My answer would be hardly anywhere even under the bucket if I am within 5 ft of him. Because he can't or doesn't shoot outside of 5 ft and he almost never goes up directly for a dunk without hesitating first.
It's almost like playing 4 on 5 when we are on offense. And the 5th guy is also getting in the way. This doesn't mean we can't use Ado...especially in defensive situations or when we are getting abused inside etc.
But he is an absolute offense killer IMO in more ways than one. Which is probably why his plus minus numbers are much worse than Koval and Ody
The thing with Ado is even if he gets the ball wide open under the basket, there's a 50/50 he will take so long handling the pass and getting the ball up that the other team will have time to recover and block his shot. WSU pretty much ignored him when they were on defense, except right around the rim.
But when Ado plays well, which happens some times, he is our best big. He has dominated on the offensive boards in a number games and played excellent defense. The problem is, he is so inconsistent (there are rumors of a lingering wrist/hand injury that may account for this). He's almost a guy you give 10 minutes in the first half and then sit him for the entire second half if he isn't playing well.
Koval/Ody are situational as well. They both struggle against bigs with size, especially Ody (who really struggles everywhere on defense). Koval is excellent against more mobile big men.
It comes down where do you want to be weak? Offense or defense? Miller generally prefers to be weak on offense. There really isn't a correct answer, but as long as Miller prefers guys who play defense over guys who play offense, Ody's minutes probably aren't going to increase and Ado's aren't going to decrease much. Koval might be earning more minutes though as he can excel on both ends in the right situation.
If you watched the post-game, Miller said at the end of the WSU game they talked about going offense/defense with Koval/Ado (same as they did against ECU), but he decided that Koval was their best option on both offense and defense against WSU's offense (they were running a lot of high ball screens, which Koval covers better than Ado).
Cin City
Well-known member
Bcat has dedicated himself to hating Wes Miller and all the players who entered the transfer portal (blaming them for Brannen being fired I guess). Not sure if he is personally associated with Brannen or just decided to do his best JustinHub impression. I've taken to just ignoring him.
Fair. I get frustration. They are kids. That’s the simplicity and complexity of it.
Good point, thanks for stats as well.I posted this when we were still building our roster:
Here are the current numbers:
C (avg 9): Ado 13.5, Lakhin 13.0, Koval 6.5
PF (avg 8): Davenport 8.2, Ody 13.8, Hensley 5.9
SF (avg 6): Newman 5.4, Madsen 0
SG (avg 3): MAW 1.6, McGinnis 0
PG (avg 2): DeJulius 0.9, Saunders 0.6
Ado, Lakhin, and Ody are the only good rebounders on the team for their position. Davenport and Newman are about average, everyone else is bad.
I would not have guessed Madsen > Newman defensively.I planned to do a post on this when we were 20 games in and the numbers started to mean something. Miya's stats can fill in the gaps between what individual stats show. There still aren't enough possessions to draw definitive conclusions, but it's still interesting.
The thing that stands out most to me is that Koval is our best offensive player per BPR. It think that's mostly because we play a 5 out offense with him on the floor, which makes up for our lack of half court schemes.
Although Ody's individual number isn't great, our best overall lineup (by far) is our starting 5 but swapping Ody for Ado. That tells me Ody struggles when he plays alongside other bench players, but really thrives with experienced guards who can compensate for his mistakes and leverage his strengths.
Our best defensive lineup is Saunders/DDJ/Madsen/Ody/Lakhin. None of those guys are disciplined defenders like Newman and MAW, but they are all extremely active and take risks. It's the chaos lineup.
The best offensive lineup is Saunders/DDJ/Newman/Ody/Lakhin. It's interesting that simply swapping Madsen for Newman changes the lineup from best defense to best offense. This lineup is four players who can get in the lane plus our best interior finisher.
Yeah, I think Newman is definitely a better defender than Madsen (their individual numbers show that). That lineup just happens to have worked well as a unit so far, but it could just be that the opponent didn't make many shots during those 20-30 possessions.I would not have guessed Madsen > Newman defensively.
Queens_NYC
Well-known member
- Joined
- Jan 8, 2017
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But when Ado plays well, which happens some times, he is our best big. He has dominated on the offensive boards in a number games and played excellent defense. The problem is, he is so inconsistent (there are rumors of a lingering wrist/hand injury that may account for this). He's almost a guy you give 10 minutes in the first half and then sit him for the entire second half if he isn't playing well.
I look at his FT shooting woes this season and wonder to what extent this can be attributed to injuries.
He was pretty much a 60% FT shooter going into this season and now he's at 38%.
Yet, none of his other stats seem to be far off what he did in 4 years at Miss State.
The thing with Ado is even if he gets the ball wide open under the basket, there's a 50/50 he will take so long handling the pass and getting the ball up that the other team will have time to recover and block his shot. WSU pretty much ignored him when they were on defense, except right around the rim.
But when Ado plays well, which happens some times, he is our best big. He has dominated on the offensive boards in a number games and played excellent defense. The problem is, he is so inconsistent (there are rumors of a lingering wrist/hand injury that may account for this). He's almost a guy you give 10 minutes in the first half and then sit him for the entire second half if he isn't playing well.
Koval/Ody are situational as well. They both struggle against bigs with size, especially Ody (who really struggles everywhere on defense). Koval is excellent against more mobile big men.
It comes down where do you want to be weak? Offense or defense? Miller generally prefers to be weak on offense. There really isn't a correct answer, but as long as Miller prefers guys who play defense over guys who play offense, Ody's minutes probably aren't going to increase and Ado's aren't going to decrease much. Koval might be earning more minutes though as he can excel on both ends in the right situation.
If you watched the post-game, Miller said at the end of the WSU game they talked about going offense/defense with Koval/Ado (same as they did against ECU), but he decided that Koval was their best option on both offense and defense against WSU's offense (they were running a lot of high ball screens, which Koval covers better than Ado).
My answer would be focus on what helps the plus minus numbers (in general). Why focus on D if it's costing you to go in the minus if we are in the plus by putting the offensive guy in the game?
Now that is a more of a theoretical question as plus minus is limited in what it can tell you. But over time (many games) I start to like it more and more. Short stretches it doesn't mean much.
Bcatfollower
Well-known member
Fair. I get frustration. They are kids. That’s the simplicity and complexity of it.
Young men, not kids. He is just a selfish player, you can see when he brings the ball up he is going to force it as opposed to pass, he has to get his shot. Kind of like DDJ except he doesn’t have anywhere near the offensive ability. If he accepted his role I think he could be serviceable. If we land this 5 star pg from GA or 4 star from Dayton he will be a career backup.
Young men, not kids. He is just a selfish player, you can see when he brings the ball up he is going to force it as opposed to pass, he has to get his shot. Kind of like DDJ except he doesn’t have anywhere near the offensive ability. If he accepted his role I think he could be serviceable. If we land this 5 star pg from GA or 4 star from Dayton he will be a career backup.
I am not going to speculate on Mike's future right now but I will say he is leading in assists per 40 minutes of action.
It's his job to try to use his main weapon and the coaches job to ensure that he tries. He get's stuck at times going to the rim but that is part of the assignment of beating guys to the rack. It's harder for him to stop that full speed blast than others who go in more controlled (slower).
He will learn how and when to pull up etc over time. I am not betting on Mike to fail with all the hard work he has put in. His shot has improved leaps and bounds.
WSU is garbage. 9-7 and 0-4 in the conference. We should have trounced them not barely beat them. Win is a win but i wouldn’t say this is a great win.
This is kind of a lazy take. The spread was with WSU. You should have made thousands of dollars (in bets) if you thought we should have torched them at home.
Memphis is also 9-7 but I have heard excuses that they are just too talented for us to beat them with our players. And then they lost their next two games. Those were also lazy takes.
I will take any road win. But being down double digits and fighting back on the road is absolutely a great win IMO.
Bcatfollower
Well-known member
This is kind of a lazy take. The spread was with WSU. You should have made thousands of dollars (in bets) if you thought we should have torched them at home.
Memphis is also 9-7 but I have heard excuses that they are just too talented for us to beat them with our players. And then they lost their next two games. Those were also lazy takes.
I will take any road win. But being down double digits and fighting back on the road is absolutely a great win IMO.
If you want to use being on the road making it tough against a bad team that’s up to you. They lost their first 4 aac games. We were also down double digits to Tulane at home… and fought back and still lost. What the excuse for that?
People just look for every excuse to justify the bad.
Bcatfollower
Well-known member
I am not going to speculate on Mike's future right now but I will say he is leading in assists per 40 minutes of action.
It's his job to try to use his main weapon and the coaches job to ensure that he tries. He get's stuck at times going to the rim but that is part of the assignment of beating guys to the rack. It's harder for him to stop that full speed blast than others who go in more controlled (slower).
He will learn how and when to pull up etc over time. I am not betting on Mike to fail with all the hard work he has put in. His shot has improved leaps and bounds.
His improved shot is still not very good. But you’re right, anything is possible.
His improved shot is still not very good. But you’re right, anything is possible.
What about his selfishness leading team in assists per 40?
A road game against Wichita St isn't considered bad by the selection committee, which is all that really matters. Tulane and Monmouth are. But we also have a Q1-A win.If you want to use being on the road making it tough against a bad team that’s up to you. They lost their first 4 aac games. We were also down double digits to Tulane at home… and fought back and still lost. What the excuse for that?
People just look for every excuse to justify the bad.
We're doing about as well as you'd expect a 60th ranked team to do. Some good wins, a couple bad losses. There's no reason to go looking for "excuses". Every team has bad games.
Bcatfollower
Well-known member
What about his selfishness leading team in assists per 40?
Well he is a pg… if the ball is on your hands The majority of the time when you’re in I would expect you to have more assists than non pg. Can’t deny he forces way to many. He wasted 4-5 possessions in the wsu game. How does he rank against other pg nationally for assists per 40?
He's #124 in the country in assist rate among players who average 20+ minutes per game. He also has the highest assist rate on our team.How does he rank against other pg nationally for assists per 40?