2017 General Recruiting

[jacobkdoyle]

You are. His shot is better than Cumberland's, so are you saying you don't want Cumberland because of his shot or you don't care because he has a high ranking next to his name?

Also, I never said I didn't want Williams. I said I preferred McNeill. I said he's a typical Cronin recruit. I said he doesn't really raise the bar in my opinion. I said I don't like the he form on his jumpshot. But I don't recall ever saying I wouldn't take him. So for you to try to turn me saying that I don't like his form, into saying I don't want Cumberland is really beyond ridiculous.

 

[Chad Brendel]

I mean if we are strictly talking form, Cumberland is right handed and shoots off his left ear. In terms of pure shooting mechanics, there isn't anyone that is taught to shoot on the opposite side of your release hand. Williams has his elbow out too far. Both have what a shooting coach would consider "bad mechanics". On the flip side both make shots at a high clip with said form. That's kind of the goal...

 

[jacobkdoyle]

I mean if we are strictly talking form, Cumberland is right handed and shoots off his left ear. In terms of pure shooting mechanics, there isn't anyone that is taught to shoot on the opposite side of your release hand. Williams has his elbow out too far. Both have what a shooting coach would consider "bad mechanics". On the flip side both make shots at a high clip with said form. That's kind of the goal...

Hey, if Williams can shoot at a high rate, the more power to him. I'm skeptical, but I do hope I'm wrong. You think he'll make his decision before the season? Signing 3 4-year players by the fall would be pretty nice.

 

[JasonS]

I'd be happy with a class of Moore, Williams, Epperson, and Nsoseme. Honestly, that's what every recruiting class should look like though. So no cartwheels for me. Maybe just an "Ok, not bad".

Here's my outlook on this:

1. Whether people want to admit it, there are challenges recruiting to UC at this point. How much impact those challenges have is up for debate and not a can of worms I care to open again.

2. Once those issues (specifically arena and conference - and yes, I am assuming UC is in the Big 12 soon) are officially addressed, I will expect to see an improvement in landing bigger talent out of HS.

3. I don't expect it to change overnight but in a couple years I would expect to see change for the better.

And for the record, I would have the same expectations of the football program with a shorter leash, only because Tuberville hasn't proven he can win here. Mick has maybe not won as much in the NCAA Tourney as people would like, but he has definitely been more successful than Tuberville and the basketball program is moving in the right direction. Not so sure about the football program.

Relating to the class you listed as a possibility above, I'd be very happy with that class today.

 

[TrillCosby]

Yeah I assume the people who assess the talent for a living are at least decent at what they do.

Also, "his shot is better than Cumberland's" is your opinion. It isn't a fact. My opinion is that Williams has uglier form and I worry about how his jumpshooting will translate to higher level competition. By all accounts, Cumberland can score a million different ways. And he's physically ready.

*I like the "gotcha" element to your post, with the "are you saying you don't want Cumberland?". Lol. That's quite a leap.

To me it sounded like you didn't want Williams because of his shot and because of his ranking(who ranks higher than McNeill on the latest rivals list).

I think you're wrong with in your opinion of Williams, so I don't know why you are getting offended because other people disagree.

Chad who has seen him play thinks he'll be a really good college player. He also shot a 40% clip from 3 this summer, which was better than Trevor Moore.
Has gained interest from Auburn and NC State and was just offered by SMU. Just named the HS MVP of Dyckman Park tournament.

I just don't know what else you need, but again it's your opinion.

 

[TrillCosby]

Also, I never said I didn't want Williams. I said I preferred McNeill. I said he's a typical Cronin recruit. I said he doesn't really raise the bar in my opinion. I said I don't like the he form on his jumpshot. But I don't recall ever saying I wouldn't take him. So for you to try to turn me saying that I don't like his form, into saying I don't want Cumberland is really beyond ridiculous.

Why would you want a player that doesn't "raise the bar"?

 

[waterhead]

His form looks off. If he shoots that well vs D1 competition, I'll gladly eat my words. But I just don't see it.

My only concern with a player's shot after moving from HS to D1 would be release time. If you can make open shots in HS you can make them in D1. The only catch is if you can get them off in time as D1 has quicker defenders.

If player A has a horrible looking shot but gets them off quickly in HS and makes 40%...he should be just fine. If player B has a perfect release but it's slow...he's probably going to struggle when he tries to speed things up.

All else being equal I would take the guy with a proper release.

 

[jacobkdoyle]

Why would you want a player that doesn't "raise the bar"?

We have 13 scholarships. Not every player will be a home run. I'd take Williams as one of my 13 no problem. I just don't think he is a home run.

The reason why I was "offended" is bc you were making quite a leap to imply something that I never said.

 

[jacobkdoyle]

My only concern with a player's shot after moving from HS to D1 would be release time. If you can make open shots in HS you can make them in D1. The only catch is if you can get them off in time as D1 has quicker defenders.

If player A has a horrible looking shot but gets them off quickly in HS and makes 40%...he should be just fine. If player B has a perfect release but it's slow...he's probably going to struggle when he tries to speed things up.

All else being equal I would take the guy with a proper release.

I wonder how many 3s he'd even be shooting. Taking 4 per game vs HS competition, when you're the best player on the floor in most games, isn't a ton. In the small sample sizes I've seen, looks like Moore shoots more than twice as many. If Williams has a solid all-around game and can guard miltiple positions, he could be a nice player. I'd definitely like him as a "3" more than a "2". Part of the reason I liked McNeill more. Broome is going to have to be quite the playmaker to give us a good backcourt (unless Jenifer takes a huge step).

 

[TrillCosby]

We have 13 scholarships. Not every player will be a home run. I'd take Williams as one of my 13 no problem. I just don't think he is a home run.

The reason why I was "offended" is bc you were making quite a leap to imply something that I never said.

It was more of a question, but I get what you're are saying. One thing that isn't really being mentioned is how good of an athlete Williams is. His dunks really look effortless with his long arms and quick bounce. I think he has a lot of potential.

 

[waterhead]

I wonder how many 3s he'd even be shooting. Taking 4 per game vs HS competition, when you're the best player on the floor in most games, isn't a ton. In the small sample sizes I've seen, looks like Moore shoots more than twice as many. If Williams has a solid all-around game and can guard miltiple positions, he could be a nice player. I'd definitely like him as a "3" more than a "2". Part of the reason I liked McNeill more. Broome is going to have to be quite the playmaker to give us a good backcourt (unless Jenifer takes a huge step).

If he's not a volume guy that would lead me to believe he will basically be shooting open set shots which should not bother his % much.

I am much more interested in getting Epperson at this point. We have Evans, Cumberland, and Moore so I am not worried about production at the 2 and 3. Getting one more would be great though.

 

[jacobkdoyle]

It was more of a question, but I get what you're are saying. One thing that isn't really being mentioned is how good of an athlete Williams is. His dunks really look effortless with his long arms and quick bounce. I think he has a lot of potential.

Never hurts to have a guy like him as an option.

Doesn't seem like we'll land one this class, but I'd really like to get a combo guard. Someone who would allow us to go small and have multiple ball handlers with quickness on the court at the same time. But I guess that's never really going to be Cronin's thing, so as long as he is around he's going to try to build old Big East style rosters. Not saying that as a slam, just what he tends to prefer. So he'd be accomplishing that with a guy like Williams (to go with the other 2/3s). There's just going to be a lot on Broome and Jenifer in terms of having to be true PG/floor generals.

 

[M64W]

Epperson??

I will bet my paycheck that won't happen. It just will not happen.

 

[TrillCosby]

Never hurts to have a guy like him as an option.

Doesn't seem like we'll land one this class, but I'd really like to get a combo guard. Someone who would allow us to go small and have multiple ball handlers with quickness on the court at the same time. But I guess that's never really going to be Cronin's thing, so as long as he is around he's going to try to build old Big East style rosters. Not saying that as a slam, just what he tends to prefer. So he'd be accomplishing that with a guy like Williams (to go with the other 2/3s). There's just going to be a lot on Broome and Jenifer in terms of having to be true PG/floor generals.

I would consider Broome a combo guard, but will likely be playing the point 60% of the time he's on the floor. I agree that it would be nice to have more combo guards, but most rosters aren't built around that idea.

I think Cronin is building a good foundation with the players he's bringing in, although like others wish he would go for a couple more "home runs".

Some of the trends I'm seeing from Cronin are more in line with how the NBA is going to small ball. Finding guys that can guard multiple positions while also being at the very least an average scoring threat. Big guys that can spread the floor and are willing passers. Role players that can step in and shoot the 3 when needed while playing solid D.

With all that being said, Cronin still has to prove he can make it work. I think this year is a bit of a make or break year.

 

[WAITE HOYT 2]

I would consider Broome a combo guard, but will likely be playing the point 60% of the time he's on the floor. I agree that it would be nice to have more combo guards, but most rosters aren't built around that idea.

I think Cronin is building a good foundation with the players he's bringing in, although like others wish he would go for a couple more "home runs".

Some of the trends I'm seeing from Cronin are more in line with how the NBA is going to small ball. Finding guys that can guard multiple positions while also being at the very least an average scoring threat. Big guys that can spread the floor and are willing passers. Role players that can step in and shoot the 3 when needed while playing solid D.

With all that being said, Cronin still has to prove he can make it work. I think this year is a bit of a make or break year.

Really can't see Broome playing the 2. Him and JJ will man the Point. Mick does like his 2 to handle he ball some all Dion Dixion but I don't think it will be Broome.

 

[jacobkdoyle]

Really can't see Broome playing the 2. Him and JJ will man the Point. Mick does like his 2 to handle he ball some all Dion Dixion but I don't think it will be Broome.

Yeah Dixon comes to mind, but he didn't have PG skills. It'd be nice if Jenifer improved enough to force the issue.

 

[L-T]

Here's my outlook on this:

1. Whether people want to admit it, there are challenges recruiting to UC at this point. How much impact those challenges have is up for debate and not a can of worms I care to open again.

2. Once those issues (specifically arena and conference - and yes, I am assuming UC is in the Big 12 soon) are officially addressed, I will expect to see an improvement in landing bigger talent out of HS.

3. I don't expect it to change overnight but in a couple years I would expect to see change for the better.

And for the record, I would have the same expectations of the football program with a shorter leash, only because Tuberville hasn't proven he can win here. Mick has maybe not won as much in the NCAA Tourney as people would like, but he has definitely been more successful than Tuberville and the basketball program is moving in the right direction. Not so sure about the football program.

Relating to the class you listed as a possibility above, I'd be very happy with that class today.

1. There's only one challenge.

2. Arena will have very little effect on recruiting. We've already been in a better conference than the Big 12 and recruiting was no better. It was just like what we're seeing today. Nothing to write home about.

3. If Mick is still coaching in a couple years, recruiting will be the same. His style of play is not attractive to recruits (or fans). It will take a special season to start generating fan and recruit interest again. He hasn't produced a season like that in 10 years. The Sweet 16 almost did the trick, but he followed it up with nothing. The trend since then is down. It is what it is. We can keep blaming all these other factors, but the blame rests in one place.

 

[jacobkdoyle]

One question about the arena...how can we we use it as an excuse for the kids we don't even get to visit?

 

[waterhead]

I don't mind recruiting 4 year "program guys" as long as we can fill in areas of need with a blue chipper here and there. We could have used a scoring grad transfer at the 2 this year. I am hoping Cumberland is ready to ball from day 1 but a proven commodity would have seen an opportunity for a big time roll on a team that might be one player away from being a legit contender. Cumberland is a VERY solid add (love the addition) but maybe not a guarantee for immediate success.

That is what is missing right now and has been. Filling areas of need with a one and done type player whether it be out of HS or transfer. We have a very solid 1, 3, and 4. Likely a very serviceable 5. I am thinking of a guy like Dermar. Someone who could play multiple positions so we can move guys around. How cool would it be to have a 6'6" Evans playing the 2? Give Cumberland a year to develop (if it's needed).

We should be able to land 1 highly sought after kid in almost every class as other players leave. We don't have to be KY and land three 5 star guys in every class...just 1 would keep everyone excited.

 

[waterhead]

1. There's only one challenge.

2. Arena will have very little effect on recruiting. We've already been in a better conference than the Big 12 and recruiting was no better. It was just like what we're seeing today. Nothing to write home about.

3. If Mick is still coaching in a couple years, recruiting will be the same. His style of play is not attractive to recruits (or fans). It will take a special season to start generating fan and recruit interest again. He hasn't produced a season like that in 10 years. The Sweet 16 almost did the trick, but he followed it up with nothing. The trend since then is down. It is what it is. We can keep blaming all these other factors, but the blame rests in one place.

Very little could be all we need. A small spike because of arena or Big 12 affiliation could be significant. If it means landing recruits who are just a cut above what we have been...that could make a decent difference. I understand we were in the Big East...can't remember when exactly we landed Born Ready, Lawrence and Gates (not that we hit home runs) but we haven't landed someone that highly sought after in a little while.

Golf is said to be a game of inches. The difference between good and great is not always that big. It's just a matter of making a couple more putts per round or hitting a few more fairways.