2017 General Recruiting

[jacobkdoyle]

It doesn't matter how many good recruits that he has signed. He's done nothing with them. The more you argue that he has actually signed better players than we give him credit for, the worse his actual results look. My biggest fault with him is his recruiting. If you're telling me that his recruiting has actually been pretty good, then I'll shift my #1 complaint over to his lack of coaching talent.

Has the guy ever had a Top 25 recruiting class? If he did in one of those early years, he certainly hasn't come near one in a long time. Which probably explains why we peaked in somewhere around his 5th or sixth season and have been on the decline ever since.

247 had the 2013 class at #25. But Morman, Strickland, and Lawrence all left.

 

[jacobkdoyle]

I wish the recruiting services would re-rank the classes as they go through their careers. Our 2017 guys likely being all 4 year players would probably rank better in a couple years.

DraftExpress is the closest thing I've seen for that. They have Caupain I think as the #12 SR. Clark was ranked in JRs but I forget where. Evans was unranked in the SO list, which I have a hard time believing.

 

[UCBEARCAT22]

247 had the 2013 class at #25. But Morman, Strickland, and Lawrence all left.

And all three of those guys left the team.... Great class

 

[L-T]

247 had the 2013 class at #25. But Morman, Strickland, and Lawrence all left.

I would assume his 2nd class which had three 4-star and four 3-star players would have been in the Top 25. Then the next year he got Yancy (5), Cash (4), Dixon (3), and Toyloy (3). That class may have made it as well. Those were the days before anyone knew how he was going to coach. Now, we have this identity of toughness and defense.....and low scoring, ugly offense....and we struggle to land anyone highly ranked anymore because of it.

 

[L-T]

247 had the 2013 class at #25. But Morman, Strickland, and Lawrence all left.

Jacob, I think we got Caupain and KJ in that class as well.

 

[jacobkdoyle]

Jacob, I think we got Caupain and KJ in that class as well.

Yes I'm aware of that lol. I was just saying those other guys left.

 

[#BearcatNation]

I would assume his 2nd class which had three 4-star and four 3-star players would have been in the Top 25. Then the next year he got Yancy (5), Cash (4), Dixon (3), and Toyloy (3). That class may have made it as well. Those were the days before anyone knew how he was going to coach. Now, we have this identity of toughness and defense.....and low scoring, ugly offense....and we struggle to land anyone highly ranked anymore because of it.

Also notice that this was right in the middle of the Big East era. Our recruiting rankings dropped a bit once the Big East began to fall apart. Yet you refuse to acknowledge conference affiliation in any of this. Just that it's all Mick's fault. Even though he's currently doing better right now with recruits rated worse. It's because he is now a better coach. Should be obvious.

Also, you really think those kids had no idea what style they were going to play??? Get real.

I truly do believe that if the Big East never fell apart, we'd be getting Top 25 classes very consistently these days. The 2012 "peak" as many have called it could've been just the beginning. Kids want to play on national TV against the best players in the world. That shouldn't be of any surprise.

 

[WAITE HOYT 2]

I would assume his 2nd class which had three 4-star and four 3-star players would have been in the Top 25. Then the next year he got Yancy (5), Cash (4), Dixon (3), and Toyloy (3). That class may have made it as well. Those were the days before anyone knew how he was going to coach. Now, we have this identity of toughness and defense.....and low scoring, ugly offense....and we struggle to land anyone highly ranked anymore because of it.

LOL!!! if he pushed the ball they would be flocking to play here.

 

[jacobkdoyle]

LOL!!! if he pushed the ball they would be flocking to play here.

Works for Xavier.

 

[#BearcatNation]

Works for Xavier.

Good for them. Doesn't work too well for The Citadel, Marshall, Maine, Nebraska-Omaha, Green Bay, and Northwestern St. (6 of the 7 fastest tempos last season)

Meanwhile, Virginia had the absolute slowest tempo of all 351 D-1 schools last year. Think that hurt their 2016 recruiting class? Because it didn't. They have the #7 class. All 4 commits are Top 100.

Tempo has hardly anything to do with it. Go to kenpom.com, and you'll see the majority of good teams are on the bottom-half in regards to tempo.

 

[L-T]

Also notice that this was right in the middle of the Big East era. Our recruiting rankings dropped a bit once the Big East began to fall apart. Yet you refuse to acknowledge conference affiliation in any of this. Just that it's all Mick's fault. Even though he's currently doing better right now with recruits rated worse. It's because he is now a better coach. Should be obvious.

Also,you really think those kids had no idea what style they were going to play??? Get real.

I truly do believe that if the Big East never fell apart, we'd be getting Top 25 classes very consistently these days. The 2012 "peak" as many have called it could've been just the beginning. Kids want to play on national TV against the best players in the world. That shouldn't be of any surprise.

Do you ever research anything, or even think about what you are saying before you say it? In Mick Cronin's three years at Murray State, his teams averaged 81, 71, and 71 points per game. What makes you think that his early signees here would believe that he was going to play anything different here at UC. So yes, I absolutely believe they had no idea that he would start playing a bleeding eyeballs offense. I'm sure 4-star Biggie McClain was just chomping at the bit to come here to play defense. The same goes for Yancy Gates. You are the one who should get real.

Secondly, many great players came here before Cronin, despite the fact that we were in a mid-major conference. They got to play on national tv almost as much as Kentucky and North Carolina, because our program was elevated by the coach and we were in high demand. Gonzaga enjoys this same phenomena today. Wichita as well. VCU, San Diego St., Dayton, UNLV, St. Joes, etc have enjoyed their moments in the national spotlight. Their success as mid-majors typically followed the same pattern as ours did. They hired a good coach and he elevated the program. We hired Cronin. Enough said.

 

[jacobkdoyle]

Good for them. Doesn't work too well for The Citadel, Marshall, Maine, Nebraska-Omaha, Green Bay, and Northwestern St. (6 of the 7 fastest tempos last season)

Meanwhile, Virginia had the absolute slowest tempo of all 351 D-1 schools last year. Think that hurt their 2016 recruiting class? Because it didn't. They have the #7 class. All 4 commits are Top 100.

Tempo has hardly anything to do with it. Go to kenpom.com, and you'll see the majority of good teams are on the bottom-half in regards to tempo.

I've probably said this 1,000 times, but I don't want to be at the top in tempo. Middle of the pack would be my preference.

And Virginia is starting to get better recruits bc they've had the results on the floor. If we can win the league and get good seeds with our pace, I'm sure our recruiting will improve too. That has yet to happen though. Maybe *this* year is the year though. We can only hope.

 

[L-T]

Good for them. Doesn't work too well for The Citadel, Marshall, Maine, Nebraska-Omaha, Green Bay, and Northwestern St. (6 of the 7 fastest tempos last season)

Meanwhile, Virginia had the absolute slowest tempo of all 351 D-1 schools last year. Think that hurt their 2016 recruiting class? Because it didn't. They have the #7 class. All 4 commits are Top 100.

Tempo has hardly anything to do with it. Go to kenpom.com, and you'll see the majority of good teams are on the bottom-half in regards to tempo.

Lol.....those obscure schools you listed have never had recognition or relevance in college basketball, so bringing them into the discussion has absolutely no bearing on this argument. Xavier has had some success and some relevance, therefore, if you play an exciting brand of basketball on top of that, recruits will flock to your program....and they are. Virginia has also had success, high rankings, relevance, etc. and they are getting good recruits because of it, and in spite of their tempo.

We play a monotonous tempo, and we've had marginal to very little success and/or relevance. Nothing but at-large bids to the NCAA is not relevance or recognized national success. If you have neither, you don't attract great recruits, and we don't. If Cronin had us in the Top 10 every year playing the bleeding eyeballs offense, he would attract some better recruits. But, earning 8-10 seeds in the NCAA every year, getting bounced in the first round, and playing a monotonous brand of basketball is a triple recruiting whammy.

 

[#BearcatNation]

I've probably said this 1,000 times, but I don't want to be at the top in tempo. Middle of the pack would be my preference.

And Virginia is starting to get better recruits bc they've had the results on the floor. If we can win the league and get good seeds with our pace, I'm sure our recruiting will improve too. That has yet to happen though. Maybe *this* year is the year though. We can only hope.

Completely different debate. I'm talking pace. You can win and get very legitimate recruits playing slow. That's literally all I'm saying.

 

[#BearcatNation]

Do you ever research anything, or even think about what you are saying before you say it? In Mick Cronin's three years at Murray State, his teams averaged 81, 71, and 71 points per game. What makes you think that his early signees here would believe that he was going to play anything different here at UC. So yes, I absolutely believe they had no idea that he would start playing a bleeding eyeballs offense. I'm sure 4-star Biggie McClain was just chomping at the bit to come here to play defense. The same goes for Yancy Gates. You are the one who should get real.

Secondly, many great players came here before Cronin, despite the fact that we were in a mid-major conference. They got to play on national tv almost as much as Kentucky and North Carolina, because our program was elevated by the coach and we were in high demand. Gonzaga enjoys this same phenomena today. Wichita as well. VCU, San Diego St., Dayton, UNLV, St. Joes, etc have enjoyed their moments in the national spotlight. Their success as mid-majors typically followed the same pattern as ours did. They hired a good coach and he elevated the program. We hired Cronin. Enough said.

What an exciting list you put together there. Key thing here: they've all "had their moments" in the national spotlight. It's nearly impossible to maintain it outside of a legitimate conference. Sure, there can be exceptions i.e. UConn, but for the most part, it's tough. It's so rare in today's era. Even you have to realize that when you started thinking of those schools.

 

[L-T]

What an exciting list you put together there. Key thing here: they've all "had their moments" in the national spotlight. It's nearly impossible to maintain it outside of a legitimate conference. Sure, there can be exceptions i.e. UConn, but for the most part, it's tough. It's so rare in today's era. Even you have to realize that when you started thinking of those schools.

University of Cincinnati maintained it. Gonzaga has maintained it. UCONN has maintained it. UNLV maintained it for a long time. I fogot to mention the most important example....XAVIER! They've certainly maintained it in spite of many coaching changes and playing in non-Power 5 conferences.

 

[WAITE HOYT 2]

Works for Xavier.

sure that's the only reason they come to Xavier

 

[#BearcatNation]

University of Cincinnati maintained it. Gonzaga has maintained it. UCONN has maintained it. UNLV maintained it for a long time. I fogot to mention the most important example....XAVIER! They've certainly maintained it in spite of many coaching changes and playing in non-Power 5 conferences.

It may not be what it was, but the Big East is a pretty legitimate conference. You think that has NO effect on the fact that they're currently getting better recruits than they've ever gotten? They all would've happily played in the A-10? Again, you've named about 5 out of 300 schools outside of legitimate conferences. It's far tougher. How can you not see that?

 

[jacobkdoyle]

sure that's the only reason they come to Xavier

Plays a part. You're kidding yourself if you think it doesn't.

 

[jacobkdoyle]

It may not be what it was, but the Big East is a pretty legitimate conference. You think that has NO effect on the fact that they're currently getting better recruits than they've ever gotten? They all would've happily played in the A-10? Again, you've named about 5 out of 300 schools outside of legitimate conferences. It's far tougher. How can you not see that?

I hope we stay active in the transfer market. That's one way to bridge the gap. Getting a guy like Washington or Broome every year can be a nice boost.