2021-22 Open Thread

[waterhead]

The fact you can definitely say that UNCG would have blown UC out last year tells me pretty much everything I need to know. And that is that you're simply not worth the time.

UC beat Furman last season. Guess who Furman beat? UNCG.

I am not making theoretical game predictions. However, the SoCon last year finished just below the AAC in conference strength. UNCG won that conference and UC finished 5th. Probably not a lot of difference there.

We beat Furman by 5 at home. UNCG beat Furman by 6 at home.

 

[sedziobs]

UC beat Furman last season. Guess who Furman beat? UNCG.

UNCG lost at Furman but beat them at home. Their only losses after the middle of January were at Furman and against a couple of teams who made 14 threes, which can happen to anybody. They played really well in the second half of the season.

Listing their bad losses is easy because most of their games were against bad teams. If we would have played the same schedule we'd have a bunch of bad losses too. We lost to USF and Tulsa at home. We needed a miracle to win at Tulsa. We were losing most of the games against Lipscomb and at Tulane. We started playing well at the very end of the season, same as UNCG.

 

[MDW79]

I am not making theoretical game predictions. However, the SoCon last year finished just below the AAC in conference strength. UNCG won that conference and UC finished 5th. Probably not a lot of difference there.

We beat Furman by 5 at home. UNCG beat Furman by 6 at home.

I mean, unless you support the idea that UNCG would have blown out UC I'm not sure why we're even discussing this.

It's an idiotic statement. You can't present that as a definitive fact, which is exactly what he did.

 

[cincrulz11]

I don't really know how long he spent at either position, although I was under the impression it was a year on the bench and a year in the adminstration.

To be honest, I don't really care either.

All people are asking is the same thing you demanded when we thought Martin was hired, support.


Now when you were blasting people then for not researching and not being thrilled about Martin, I guess you didn't make it clear you just demanded support for a month, and then if he did things we didn't agree with it would be time to bash him.

 

[MDW79]

UNCG lost at Furman but beat them at home. Their only losses after the middle of January were at Furman and against a couple of teams who made 14 threes, which can happen to anybody. They played really well in the second half of the season.

Listing their bad losses is easy because most of their games were against bad teams. If we would have played the same schedule we'd have a bunch of bad losses too. We lost to USF and Tulsa at home. We needed a miracle to win at Tulsa. We were losing most of the games against Lipscomb and at Tulane. We started playing well at the very end of the season, same as UNCG.

Honestly, I really don't care. UNCG played an absolutely garbage schedule and it's impossible to predict how they would have fared against UC.

The idea that it's a stone cold fact they were a better team, even marginally, is not at all verifiable. The idea that we would blow us out is downright absurd.

 

[waterhead]

I mean, unless you support the idea that UNCG would have blown out UC I'm not sure why we're even discussing this.

It's an idiotic statement. You can't present that as a definitive fact, which is exactly what he did.

Can you present as "definitive fact" that Ody or Newman (or any other recruit) can't play 20+ minutes on a top 50 team by the time they leave UC?

 

[MDW79]

All people are asking is the same thing you demanded when we thought Martin was hired, support.


Now when you were blasting people then for not researching and not being thrilled about Martin, I guess you didn't make it clear you just demanded support for a month, and then if he did things we didn't agree with it would be time to bash him.

Define "support".

I don't dislike Wes Miller personally. I haven't written him off as a coach or anything like that. I plan on going down to a few games like I always go, and I plan on watching the others on TV. I will root for this team, and hope for the best.

All that said, I see no reason why I can't criticize him just because he's new. I haven't liked the approach thus far and I'm sharing my opinion. I just don't understand how that equates to not supporting him or the school.

I criticized Huggs (He got the least of it). I criticized Mick (He got the most of it). And I criticized Brannen (He apparently didn't get enough of it).

From my perspective people are overly-sensitive just because he's so new. and I get that to extent. But this is all we have to talk about right now. These hires and signings. There's no games to talk about, there's no schedule to review, there's no 2022 class to debate. This is it.

I just haven't been impressed. I expected a lot more from a guy that the local media and BCJ creamed over when he was hired. Why am I not allowed to talk about that?

 

[MDW79]

Can you present as "definitive fact" that Ody or Newman (or any other recruit) can't play 20+ minutes on a top 50 team by the time they leave UC?

Not sure I understand the question. Are you asking me if UC can be a top 50 team by the time they leave, and do I think they'll play 20 minutes plus?

If that's question then there is no definitive answer. We will have to wait and see. I personally think the minutes are there for both, but I don't see this team anywhere close to top 50 in 2021.

Now if you're asking me if they could have had they went elsewhere, I'm not sure there's a definitive answer to that either. Although it's easily argued that is highly unlikely.

Ody Aguama barely averaged 20 minutes a game (21.6) for team that was nowhere even remotely close to the top 50. Wake Forest finished 175th in Ken Pom's ranking.

Newman actually did come from a top 50 team in 2020. Clemson was 45th in the Ken Pom rankings (I'm just using Ken Pom for conversation's sake.) But he only played 12 mintues a game for that team. Now of course this is where someone will point out that he played 30 minutes a game a year prior. But that Clemson stunk and wasn't top 50. They finished at 72nd. I'm also going to question whether he would have been able to moving forward just because of the fact he commited to UNCG. Guys that can see 20+ minutes on top 50 teams don't transfer to UNCG, which is why he got the hell out of there as soon as could and transfered here.

Not sure if this is what you were asking but I took a stab at it anyways.

 

[waterhead]

Not sure I understand the question. Are you asking me if UC can be a top 50 team by the time they leave, and do I think they'll play 20 minutes plus?

Oh come on. I didn't ask if UC could be a top 50 team. I asked (because you have implied or stated directly) that you don't think any of these guys could play 20+ minutes for a decent program or start for a top 50 program.

Like I said earlier, this is how far this program has fallen. A poster wants a few players that aren't exclusively from North Carolina and/or who would actually play 20+ minutes for a decent program. That's such an outlandish want that it gets branded as completely unreasonable.

Ody is just a soph and Newman had an injury year last year but he was the highest minute getter the year prior whether they were top 50 or not. That doesn't tell me (or anyone) he would be the one to recruit over...it tells me that his injury played a big part in his production.

And we have no idea whether Hensley or McGinnis could develop over the course of 3 years to play at a top 50 team level.

And we still have to add at least one player and by most accounts it seems that Wes will be aiming for the fence. And if anything else opens up...he will likely do that again.

 

[sedziobs]

Newman actually did come from a top 50 team in 2020. Clemson was 45th in the Ken Pom rankings (I'm just using Ken Pom for conversation's sake.) But he only played 12 mintues a game for that team. Now of course this is where someone will point out that he played 30 minutes a game a year prior.

I'll point out that he played 17+ minutes in half his games last year on a top 50 team. He played 23+ minutes in wins over Maryland, Alabama, and Florida St. His best offensive game was 12 pts in 23 minutes against Florida St. He played 29 minutes against Georgia Tech. In early January and then late in the year his minutes were drastically reduced, which brought his average down. Whatever the reason for that (injury or otherwise) Newman was playing 20+ minutes for a top 50 team.

 

[MDW79]

I guess you didn't make it clear you just demanded support for a month, and then if he did things we didn't agree with it would be time to bash him.

If they didn't agree with his approach or they felt the players he landed were lackluster then I would fully expect people to voice their concerns.

I don't see how questioning some of the players and coaches he's chosen to bring on is bashing him either. I haven't said he's a terrible person, or he doesn't know the game, or he's doomed to fail. I've been very specific with my complaints.

 

[TheRealMick]

Newman wasn't a UNCG guy...he was a Wes Miller guy. He came to UC with Wes from Clemson.

As for Roberts...yes he WAS a UNCG guy but he went and got experience in the B10. And don't let his job title there fool you.

Bro will y’all please stop it. It’s nothing to argue here. Newman literally committed to UNCG

 

[Loser Mentality]

The hypothetical back and forth in here is tremendous lol.

But why not I guess......

Hopefully there is no way Wes Miller got the former portal players to return by telling them they would be starting, or the numbers of minutes they would garner under his watch.

As each day passes and our returning portal players see what Wes and company is bringing in, "They Better Get to Work".

Not saying better players are being brought in, but I would have to think everyone is auditioning for their role on this retooled basketball squad.

 

[waterhead]

I'll point out that he played 17+ minutes in half his games last year on a top 50 team. He played 23+ minutes in wins over Maryland, Alabama, and Florida St. His best offensive game was 12 pts in 23 minutes against Florida St. He played 29 minutes against Georgia Tech. In early January and then late in the year his minutes were drastically reduced, which brought his average down. Whatever the reason for that (injury or otherwise) Newman was playing 20+ minutes for a top 50 team.

I believe his production was down from the year before (due to injury) and he and the coach weren't seeing eye to eye on playing time. I mean he was playing 80% of the minutes the year before. So he likely wanted to get back to that level even though his production dropped. At the end of the year their relationship took a drastic turn (as rumor would have it) and he barely played from there on out.

So he basically left because his relationship with the coach deteriorated. I think we know that type of story very well. And that is why Harvey is playing for UCSB. But for some reason Harvey gets a pass and Newman deserved a downgrade. Go figure

 

[TheRealMick]

Gabe played 5 minutes last year..... Harvey was far from a "stud". What the hell does 75 mile radius to Cincinnati have to do with anything right now? Hes been on the job a month. Its not like there are any 2021 D1 players available right now. I swear people dont use their brains

What does 75mile radius have do with it? Buddy with Mick, John and now Wes I’ve wanted to hit local recruiting hard. It was actually my #1 requirement for new coach. Fact of matter is Wes has actually did exactly what I wanted just in different state and region. He recruited Carolina hard and I don’t blame him. Going forward I need to see Ohio connections. Darryn Peterson still hasn’t been offered. He’s 9th grader dominating 17u AAU right now, he’s probably already better than McMillan

 

[TheRealMick]

Only 1 guaranteed starter and that’s Davenport. If everybody don’t know I wanted to upgrade the 3 and basically make JD a super sub. We can still use an elite wing

 

[TheRealMick]

That's the whole thing about what you are saying. Miller doesn't want a certain type of player mentality. I don't think Harvey would be a take for Miller on any planet. He doesn't have the intangibles Wes VALUES!

This isn't just about grabbing talent or points. It's also about culture and work and attitude. He's probably passed on a lot of talent so far because they don't fit the philosophy.

So if everyone on the roster is 2 feet in and likes to work and has insatiable desire to win at all cost and likes to dive on the floor etc. Then they are BETTER players for the team and system than some all star prima donna.

Also I doubt Harvey can defend nearly as well as Newman. That is 50% of basketball...defense. So you maybe lose a few points and gain some defense and gain the attitude you are looking for. Now who do you want?

Harvey had attitude issues? Gosh don’t let the angry kid play but go out our way to bring back kids that didn’t like to work hard in practice? I’m all in on Wes but please chill defending what’s before our eyes. Harvey is exactly type of player Wes is looking for, athleticism with decent size and can play multiple positions. I always thought Harvey was our best perimeter defender.

 

[waterhead]

Bro will y’all please stop it. It’s nothing to argue here. Newman literally committed to UNCG

Harvey committed to UCSB. If he were to get snatched up by Kansas (before playing for UCSB would he still be a UCSB guy?

Would his skill level go down by transferring to UCSB from UC? Would his skill level go up if he went to Kansas?

The point is...he is who he is...he can either play or he can't. I think a healthy Newman can play at high level D1...whether he was going to go to UNCG or not. And if he was a UNCG guy...he would stay there to be close to family. If he were a Wes Miller guy he would follow him to UC.

 

[waterhead]

Harvey had attitude issues? Gosh don’t let the angry kid play but go out our way to bring back kids that didn’t like to work hard in practice? I’m all in on Wes but please chill defending what’s before our eyes. Harvey is exactly type of player Wes is looking for, athleticism with decent size and can play multiple positions. I always thought Harvey was our best perimeter defender.

By most accounts Saunders and Madsen are both gym rats. First to get there and last to leave types. They didn't want out because practice was hard. They didn't respect the coach.

 

[TheRealMick]

By most accounts Saunders and Madsen are both gym rats. First to get there and last to leave types. They didn't want out because practice was hard. They didn't respect the coach.

That’s what they all say. Only player I’ve ever get seen labeled otherwise were Allen Iverson and Jarron Cumberland. Mick use flat out call him lazy