22-23 Team Discussion

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sedziobs said:
We're in touch with Jahmir Young from Charlotte. 6'1" PG who can score and has two years eligibility remaining. I worry about our chances with guys like him if Phinisee commits next week.
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Now that’s what I’m talking about !
Would be terrific imo
 
skyblade said:
He's not. He's significantly less athletic, slower of foot and can't shoot threes.

He's the Davenport of centers, a guy who's got offensive talent (passing and interior scoring in his case), but who is overmatched in quickness and athleticism.
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From limited tape I’m not sure I see a lumbering oaf here. For 240 lbs he seems to move quite well. And he can walk and chew gum. Where are you getting slow footed from? He’s also got a decent block rate if I recall.. at 6’8” I’m sure it’s much better than JD or Hensley. Maybe better than Ody or Vik.
 
waterhead said:
From limited tape I’m not sure I see a lumbering oaf here. For 240 lbs he seems to move quite well. And he can walk and chew gum. Where are you getting slow footed from? He’s also got a decent block rate if I recall.. at 6’8” I’m sure it’s much better than JD or Hensley. Maybe better than Ody or Vik.
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I'll admit my sample size isn't huge. I watched about a games worth of play (there are some full ODU games on youtube). He plays really far off guards in the pick-and-roll or when iso'd on them for fear of getting beat to the basket. Gives up a lot of wide open mid range shots (though in the games I watched, the opponents missed most of them). Also is consistently slow getting up/down the court in transition.

He's not quite Chris Vogt, but he doesn't seem to be particularly quick. He seems to be a guy who's okay on defense if he's with 5 feet of the rim (and I'd guess that's where most of his blocks come from), but struggles if pulled away from the basket.

His career block percentage is 6.4% which isn't too shabby. Not Koval/Ado level, but better than Ody/Lakhin last year by 3+%. But blocks are going to be harder to come by here than in the CUSA. On the other hand he had only 7 dunks last year (fewer than Ody, Lakhin and Koval) while playing a lot more minutes (average of 1 dunk per 123 minutes), not exactly a sign of much athleticism.

Maybe I put too much stock into having the worst +/- on his team two years in a row (and the two years he started). But the more I've looked at it the more it concerns me. Gary Clark for example was never worse than second on the team in +/- in the four years he was here. +/- is variable per game, but over a longer time tends to favor guys who do all the little things and defend well. Worst +/- two straight years tells me he's making something (probably pick-and-roll offense) way too easy for the other team and also isn't a guy who's going to get 50/50 balls.
 
Blocks, rebounds, scoring, and defense aren't going to be that much different here than in CUSA. They don't have any top teams like Houston or Memphis, but they had 7 ranked between 53 and 158 that would have fit right in the middle of the AAC (like us).

I'm not sure what you're expecting. It sounds like you want a 6'10" 250 big man who can defend the post and the perimeter while proving that he can rebound against Houston. Who in the portal fits that profile that we could land? I'm excited that Ezikpe picked us because I think he was one of only a handful of obtainable guys who makes us better in the front court. Yeah, he's limited in some areas like most college bigs. But he improves our team in areas of weakness.
 
skyblade said:
I'll admit my sample size isn't huge. I watched about a games worth of play (there are some full ODU games on youtube). He plays really far off guards in the pick-and-roll or when iso'd on them for fear of getting beat to the basket. Gives up a lot of wide open mid range shots (though in the games I watched, the opponents missed most of them). Also is consistently slow getting up/down the court in transition.

He's not quite Chris Vogt, but he doesn't seem to be particularly quick. He seems to be a guy who's okay on defense if he's with 5 feet of the rim (and I'd guess that's where most of his blocks come from), but struggles if pulled away from the basket.

His career block percentage is 6.4% which isn't too shabby. Not Koval/Ado level, but better than Ody/Lakhin last year by 3+%. But blocks are going to be harder to come by here than in the CUSA. On the other hand he had only 7 dunks last year (fewer than Ody, Lakhin and Koval) while playing a lot more minutes (average of 1 dunk per 123 minutes), not exactly a sign of much athleticism.

Maybe I put too much stock into having the worst +/- on his team two years in a row (and the two years he started). But the more I've looked at it the more it concerns me. Gary Clark for example was never worse than second on the team in +/- in the four years he was here. +/- is variable per game, but over a longer time tends to favor guys who do all the little things and defend well. Worst +/- two straight years tells me he's making something (probably pick-and-roll offense) way too easy for the other team and also isn't a guy who's going to get 50/50 balls.
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He’s not going to be able to take plays off here. Wes will get the effort out of him. He’ll play less minutes and have more energy.

Max effort is non negotiable. Imagine what he will look like when he’s always going 100 percent?
 
sedziobs said:
Blocks, rebounds, scoring, and defense aren't going to be that much different here than in CUSA. They don't have any top teams like Houston or Memphis, but they had 7 ranked between 53 and 158 that would have fit right in the middle of the AAC (like us).

I'm not sure what you're expecting. It sounds like you want a 6'10" 250 big man who can defend the post and the perimeter while proving that he can rebound against Houston. Who in the portal fits that profile that we could land? I'm excited that Ezikpe picked us because I think he was one of only a handful of obtainable guys who makes us better in the front court. Yeah, he's limited in some areas like most college bigs. But he improves our team in areas of weakness.
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I'm more giving my assessment of Ezikpe than hoping for something else - and maybe I'm completely wrong.

I'll admit that I generally like bigs with size, length and athleticism. Getting longer and more athletic seems like a major need. We do have guys on the team with those attributes (Hensley, Ody and Lakhin) so hopefully Miller is counting on their improvement.

My main concern with Ezikpe is he's another in the DDJ, Davenport mold of a guy who is undersized, slow and/or not particularly athletic. It doesn't mean he can't manage, but we can only have so many of those guys on the court at the same time and with DDJ/Davenport we are already pushing that limit.

I think Ezikpe is a good addition if he has a limited role (perhaps as a backup to Davenport). A veteran big man who can help out a lot in practice with an offensive skill set he can help teach the other guys and who can be a change of pace guy in games for short burst. If he's starting alongside Davenport, then I will have major worries.
 
waterhead said:
He’s not going to be able to take plays off here. Wes will get the effort out of him. He’ll play less minutes and have more energy.

Max effort is non negotiable. Imagine what he will look like when he’s always going 100 percent?
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You think our players played at mad effort? Off top of my head only 2 players stood out for 100% effort, Hensley and Vik. Everybody else watched on D and chasing rebounds.
 
My guess is Ody will start. What position will depend on what everyone shows over the off-season. I could see Ody playing the 4 if he improves his perimeter defense and shooting. That would allow Ezikpe or Vik to start at 5 if they show they are good enough. Depending on what guards (or lack of) we bring in, maybe we go big with Davenport at the 3 and Newman at the 2, forcing DDJ to play point. Or Davenport sticks as the starting 4 or gets pushed to the bench.

Everything is up in the air. It's good to have depth, different skillets, and different experience levels inside.
 
sedziobs said:
My guess is Ody will start. What position will depend on what everyone shows over the off-season. I could see Ody playing the 4 if he improves his perimeter defense and shooting. That would allow Ezikpe or Vik to start at 5 if they show they are good enough. Depending on what guards (or lack of) we bring in, maybe we go big with Davenport at the 3 and Newman at the 2, forcing DDJ to play point. Or Davenport sticks as the starting 4 or gets pushed to the bench.

Everything is up in the air. It's good to have depth, different skillets, and different experience levels inside.
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It's was said by Chad last year and I think remains accurate that Davenport is not a three. At the 4 he can be a mismatch on offense and you hope for good enough on defense (which he can be, but isn't always). At the 3 he's not longer a mismatch on offense and he's an even bigger problem on defense.

I don't think Ezikpe is better than Davenport. They are much different players and the change of pace can be an advantage if you rotate them. Davenport spreads the floor with his three, whereas Ezikpe clogs the lane, but is a skilled interior passer. Ezikpe is a better interior defender, but worse if you pull him away from the rim.

Last season lack of length and athleticism was an issue. If you send out a lineup with DDJ, Davenport and Ezikpe it's an even bigger problem than last year. We need some of the high end athletes (Skillings, Hensley, Ody and Vik) to earn their way on to the court or it won't be a great season.
 
Why are we comparing Ezikpe to Davenport? They are completely different players. I was pointing out that if Ody can play the 4 it might push Davenport to the 3 or bench. We all know Davenport is a tweener who isn't quick enough for the 3 and too weak for the 4. But we want his shooting on the floor. Regardless of what Chad says, I think we can move him around depending on who else we bring in. If we can't land any quality guards, it might make sense to go big. I'd rather do that than start MAW again. On a good team Davenport is a bench player.
 
sedziobs said:
Why are we comparing Ezikpe to Davenport? They are completely different players. I was pointing out that if Ody can play the 4 it might push Davenport to the 3 or bench. We all know Davenport is a tweener who isn't quick enough for the 3 and too weak for the 4. But we want his shooting on the floor. Regardless of what Chad says, I think we can move him around depending on who else we bring in. If we can't land any quality guards, it might make sense to go big. I'd rather do that than start MAW again. On a good team Davenport is a bench player.
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Rather have JD and MAW on bench. We need last two spots go above rim PG and wing. Gaines would've been perfect fit at PG, Wes wanted keep all scholarships open for next year. He's out his rabbit mind if think we're going win in Big12 with team full of FR and SO.
 
TheRealMick said:
Rather have JD and MAW on bench. We need last two spots go above rim PG and wing. Gaines would've been perfect fit at PG, Wes wanted keep all scholarships open for next year. He's out his rabbit mind if think we're going win in Big12 with team full of FR and SO.
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Right, keeping a spot open for Collier doesn't mean we have to have zero PG on the roster. We can bring in a multi-year guy especially if he's a combo guard.
 
TheRealMick said:
Rather have JD and MAW on bench. We need last two spots go above rim PG and wing. Gaines would've been perfect fit at PG, Wes wanted keep all scholarships open for next year. He's out his rabbit mind if think we're going win in Big12 with team full of FR and SO.
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The long term goal is to compete for Big 12. We would like it to be year 1 but year 2 or 3 is fine if we can make it happen that way. We aren’t even competing for AAC right now. Let’s keep things in perspective.
 
waterhead said:
The long term goal is to compete for Big 12. We would like it to be year 1 but year 2 or 3 is fine if we can make it happen that way. We aren’t even competing for AAC right now. Let’s keep things in perspective.
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In specific case of Gaines, you don't pass up on him now for chance at Collier two years from now. If we're going all in on freshman PG, he needs established JR/SR around him. Not to mention at this point Gaines is better than Collier, Rayvon, Skillings, and Reed. You take the best guys now and worry about hurting feelings later.
 
And here where we would've had upper hand. Collier and Gaines workout together with same trainer. We couldn't been more blessed with that situation.
 
A little more on Phinisee, he's really bad at shooting. Worse than MAW bad. His assist and TO rates are also worse than MAW's. He is supposed to be an excellent defender - though EvanMiya gives reason to think he might just be very good - and has good rebound, steal and block rates for his size (better than MAW is all three categories), his foul rate is pretty high for a guard though.

His best shooting percentage on far 2's in his career (4 seasons) is .260%, his best shooting percentage from 3 is .33% and he's a career .290% 3 pt shooter. A lingering injury is claimed to have effected him last year, but I see no reason to believe it effected his shooting. He's a really bad shooter no matter what season you look at.

The only glimmer of hope on offense is his close 2 rate has only been bad 2 out of 4 years and has been closer to average the other 2. He may be a little better at finishing at the rim than MAW. Though I imagine it's hard for him to get there when there's no reason to respect his shot from beyond 10 ft.

I'd rate him as an wash for Saunders based on Saunders last season, however Saunders had a lot more potential to improve. This year I think Saunders would have been (and probably will be at Utah) a better player. So a downgrade vs Saunders for next year. Hopefully we add a better third transfer, or Skillngs/Reed manage to contribute quickly at the wing next year.
 
Phinisee and MAW sharing PG duties means we need to get more offense from the 3 and 5 positions. And we're going to be very small at just about every position. Hopefully Phinisee lives up to his defensive reputation and can do a better job of penetrating than our MAW/Saunders pairing last year.
 
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