Big East and Kansas meet

[psax889906]

After this is all done, I can't wait for the first person from the college ranks that says, "This is all about the student athelete"

Yep... can't have them playing an extra 2-3 weeks for a playoff, heaven's no... but they can make them travel an extra 1,000 miles a year because of the insane distance between schools in these mega conferences lol

I'm sure it will be extremely beneficial to their studies.

 

[swg]

What's the matter with Kansas? Nothing, as far as the Big East is concerned.

The expected breakup of the Big 12 offers the Big East a rare and valuable opportunity. For the past couple of years, league officials have known they needed to expand in football. Yet there weren't any obvious candidates out there who would have made the conference stronger right away.

Now, assuming Texas and most of the rest of the Big 12 South bolt for the Pac-10 (or Pac-16 or whatever it will be called), such teams as Kansas, Missouri, Kansas State and Iowa State will be left as BCS orphans. And the Big East would be wise to adopt them as quickly as possible.

The geography, of course, is a problem. But not that big of a problem for a league that's already in Chicago and Milwaukee. Here are some distances to consider:

Lawrence, Kan., to Louisville: 560 miles

Lawrence to Cincinnati: 632 miles

Columbia, Mo., to Morgantown: 738 miles

Ames, Iowa to Pittsburgh: 802 miles

Tampa to Syracuse: 1,304 miles

Louisville to East Hartford, Conn.: 876 miles

So, really, the travel is not all that different than it is now, and the former Big 12 teams form natural rivals with each other. The Big East could form East and West Divisions, stage a championship game and have a legitimate 12-team conference that would keep its BCS tie-in. A Pittsburgh-Kansas State title game might not capture the nation's imagination, but it's a start.

The league should act fast, because the Mountain West is eyeing these same teams, which is a major reason why that conference delayed a vote on adding Boise State earlier this week. Maybe the Big 12 leftovers fit well with teams like TCU and Colorado State, but the geography becomes even more troublesome when you start talking about the far western teams in that league like San Diego State and New Mexico.

And while we know basketball is taking a backseat in expansion -- actually, hoops is in locked in the trunk right now -- we also realize that Kansas is a basketball school that takes great pride in its hardwood tradition. Do you think the Jayhawks would rather play basketball against the likes of Wyoming and Air Force or go toe to toe every week against Connecticut, Georgetown, Louisville, Syracuse, etc.?

The Big East can't yet offer the dollars that the Big 12 was paying out. But the league is exploring its own TV network, and think about the raised interest level in basketball games alone with the Big 12 schools on board. The Big East could also add St. Louis and Kansas City to its list of major metropolitan markets.

Adding four more schools would make the basketball alignment even more unwieldy, but as I've said before, the league should be willing to throw schools like DePaul, Seton Hall and (gasp!) Providence overboard if it means saving the conference in the bigger picture.

Bringing those four Big 12 teams on board would be a bold move. But now is the time for bold moves.

http://espn.go.com/blog/ncfnation/post/_/id/23104/big-east-should-look-west

 

[psax889906]

Was considering the possible 4 schools addition on the football end and the facilities they maintain... would be an upgrade to the overall health and level of Big East athletic facilities in my opinion:

http://www.kstatesports.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=400&ATCLID=676648

http://www.mutigers.com/facilities/miss-facilities.html

http://www.kuathletics.com/facilities/kan-facilities.html

http://www.cyclones.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=10700&KEY=&ATCLID=541499


And btw... all 4 of these schools already have indoor practice facilities for their football teams.

 

[Daniel Drake]

Picking up schools in the middle of nowhere with low populations is not an upgrade. That is why they are being dropped by the Big 12. Have you been to Manhattan? Horrilbe. Kansas and Missouri bring something to the table, but KState and Iowa State. Getting the 2nd best team in a 3,000,000 person state and 2 teams from a 2.8 million person state is horrible considering that they don't have fan bases that go beyond the state borders. Hell, most of their fans in these states are probably Nebraska football fans. We are the 2nd best team in a 11,000,000 state and don't get any credit. Kansas won't come without Kansas St, but is it worth that.

Temple, Memphis or Central Florida bring more to the table than those 2 teams. Hell, go all out and get TCU from Dallas if you really want to add teams. You have to fly to Manhattan and Ames anyway so just go to Dallas. Dallas and Tampa FL are the same distance.

 

[JasonS]

I saw this on another board written by an ISU fan and it gives a bit of info about what ISU would bring to the table.

"Cyclone fan here, and guys, I LOVE this idea. I've had a lot of respect for the Big East conference the past few years, because like Iowa State, you guys take a lot of **** that quite frankly is undeserved, and anyone who isn't too lazy can simply look at the facts and realize that these perceptions are not reality.

We offer more than people think: we average 48,000/game in a stadium that has 43,000 physical seats. Our enrollment is around 28,000. We are a very strong academic institution, and a member of the AAU. We own more Big 12 basketball titles than any school but Kansas. We've been to 6 bowls in the past decade, and our record against non-Big 12 BCS schools is 7-6 in that time period. We also bring 3,000,000 TV sets (Iowa is the most popular program, but ISU fans are prevalent enough that we could force a potential TV Network into the State).

I love what you guys have done over the past few years, and hope you stay strong w/Butch Jones. Nippert is a beautiful stadium, even if it's a little smaller, and it would be an honor to watch a game in the oldest stadium still in use. Hopefully this all goes down, and we're all a little better off!"

http://mbd.scout.com/mb.aspx?s=341&f=1604&t=6026361

 

[psax889906]

Picking up schools in the middle of nowhere with low populations is not an upgrade. That is why they are being dropped by the Big 12. Have you been to Manhattan? Horrilbe. Kansas and Missouri bring something to the table, but KState and Iowa State. Getting the 2nd best team in a 3,000,000 person state and 2 teams from a 2.8 million person state is horrible considering that they don't have fan bases that go beyond the state borders. Hell, most of their fans in these states are probably Nebraska football fans. We are the 2nd best team in a 11,000,000 state and don't get any credit. Kansas won't come without Kansas St, but is it worth that.

Temple, Memphis or Central Florida bring more to the table than those 2 teams. Hell, go all out and get TCU from Dallas if you really want to add teams. You have to fly to Manhattan and Ames anyway so just go to Dallas. Dallas and Tampa FL are the same distance.

I think you're wrong. And there is no way possible TCU will be joining the Big East, so you can forget about that. I'm considering viable, POSSIBLE options to both keep the league afloat and help it build for the future.

 

[Daniel Drake]

I just don't see what you are building with. the 2nd best school in Iowa and the top 2 schools in Kansas. Missouri is a good school, but I wouldn't want K State and Iowa State. Those schools don't bring much to the table outside of farming experience and UFO sightings.

 

[psax889906]

And for what it's worth... I see the possible potential in adding a team like Central Florida, especially with their strong facilities... however, if it is all about dollars, that doesn't add a new market considering USF is already on board, where as Kansas and Missouri would provide new markets, even if they aren't the most prized ones...

 

[psax889906]

I just don't see what you are building with. the 2nd best school in Iowa and the top 2 schools in Kansas. Missouri is a good school, but I wouldn't want K State and Iowa State. Those schools don't bring much to the table outside of farming experience and UFO sightings.

K-State with Frank Martin is here to stay on the basketball side... but I understand that's not what's driving all of this... on the football side, they have potential and decent history and lets not forget they were in a BCS bowl game as recently as 2004... no, it's not a giant leap ahead in level of play from where the Big East is at, but is that what we really want?... I say continue to add strong, stable programs (Missouri is a perfect example, imo) and allow the Big East to continue to grow on a balanced level...

My question to you is, what is it that Temple, Memphis or UCF would bring that would equal or surpass what Missouri, Kansas, Kansas St. and Iowa St. would bring? And if we're discussing Temple, it should be expected that the discussion would heat up to have Villanova take their program to the next level on the football side...

 

[Thegreatone]

Kansas City and St. Louis are areas the Big East could reach with these schools.

 

[Lobot]

Kansas City and St. Louis are areas the Big East could reach with these schools.

This is exactly why the Big t12n wants Mizzou, The winner of the MIzzou battle wins the TV Market battle. Then again Lincoln NE is a lousy TV market,

 

[psax889906]

This is exactly why the Big t12n wants Mizzou, The winner of the MIzzou battle wins the TV Market battle. Then again Lincoln NE is a lousy TV market,

Then why hasn't there been more talk recently about Missouri going to the Big 10?

Are we to believe the rumors about Missouri and the other four schools from the Big12 being interested in and talking to the Big East officials?

 

[psax889906]

Found a post on the NCAABBS forums from a Jayhawk fan claiming the Kansas to Big East talks have stalled because the Big East football schools aren't willing to split from the basketball schools all together...

 

[Lobot]

Found a post on the NCAABBS forums from a Jayhawk fan claiming the Kansas to Big East talks have stalled because the Big East football schools aren't willing to split from the basketball schools all together...

This is the whole problem with the Big East football expansion. The basketball only UC vs. KU and if we join the ACC, UC vs. Duke and UNC.

Heck, we thought the BE was tough to rebuild in

 

[psax889906]

This is the whole problem with the Big East football expansion. The basketball only UC vs. KU and if we join the ACC, UC vs. Duke and UNC.

Heck, we thought the BE was tough to rebuild in

As much as I love UC Basketball I- and I assume the entire UC athletics department- am focused on figuring out a why in which to secure the UC football program's place at the BCS table going forward... that is what drives revenue and what will drive the UC athletic department going into the future.

 

[cincycpaw]

Found a post on the NCAABBS forums from a Jayhawk fan claiming the Kansas to Big East talks have stalled because the Big East football schools aren't willing to split from the basketball schools all together...

That's a shame if true. If things continue to shake out as they have, I think the only way the BIg East does not get raided is to dump the basketball schools and go grabbing the Big 12 leftovers. Then see if you can get BC back or Maryland, or maybe even Memphis.

 

[Daniel Drake]

K-State with Frank Martin is here to stay on the basketball side... but I understand that's not what's driving all of this... on the football side, they have potential and decent history and lets not forget they were in a BCS bowl game as recently as 2004... no, it's not a giant leap ahead in level of play from where the Big East is at, but is that what we really want?... I say continue to add strong, stable programs (Missouri is a perfect example, imo) and allow the Big East to continue to grow on a balanced level...

My question to you is, what is it that Temple, Memphis or UCF would bring that would equal or surpass what Missouri, Kansas, Kansas St. and Iowa St. would bring? And if we're discussing Temple, it should be expected that the discussion would heat up to have Villanova take their program to the next level on the football side...

My assumption is that the football and basketball split and that Temple is bringing you the Philly market. They don't bring anything over Missouri and Kansas, but Kansas St and Iowa St are the two teams I have huge problems with. If we don't split form basketball than Nova would never let Temple happen.

So you have:
Temple - Philladalphia, PA 36,915 enrollment, 5,838,000,
9-4 football in 2009 and bowl game, but poor history

Memphis - Memphis, TN 20,000 enrollment 1,280,000 population
2-10, but bowl in 5 of last 7 years

Kansas - Lawarence Kansas City, KS 2053,000, 29,242 enrollment
5-7, but bowl in 5 of 9 years

Missouri - 30,831 enrollment 100,713 population but markets of St Louis 2,816,000 and partly Kansas City 2,053,000,
8-5 bowl in last 5 yrs

Kansas St - Manhattan, KS 113,629 Population 21,570 enrollment
No bowl since 2006, strong 90s, 6-6 in 2009

Iowa St - Ames, IA (Des Moines) 556,000 population 27,942 enrollment
7-6 2009, 6 bowls in 10 yrs (6 bowls also in 32 years)

Central Florida - Orlando, FL 2,082,000 population. 54,644 enrollment
8-5, 3 bowls in 5 years



So, by far the populations say say that KSU and ISU are crappy pick ups for a conference. Kansas and Missouri work well and I would have no problem with those 2 teams, but will Kansas legislator let KU leave without KSU?

Memphis, Temple and UCF bring very strong markets with them. USF and UCF are close, but each bring a huge market individualy.

I would much rather join up with remaining ACC teams and add a couple of USF, Memphis, Temple than Kansas St or Iowa St. You don't take a crappy team because they bring a decent team in Kansas. Missouri is as good of a choice as it gets.

And when looking at the football records don't tell me that they are in the Big 12 so you can't compare. This argument holds very little water to me since the Big 12 North has been as weak as the MAC while the South has been very strong.

I will also say that I prefer TCU and Houston to these two teams as well since the Houston and Dallas market are strong. TCU is a smaller school with good football and strong market and Hoston has had good success as well and is in a strong market with improving facilities.

 

[psax889906]

I will also say that I prefer TCU and Houston to these two teams as well since the Houston and Dallas market are strong. TCU is a smaller school with good football and strong market and Hoston has had good success as well and is in a strong market with improving facilities.

Go after Houston, by all means... but TCU isn't moving... the MWC is bunkering down and looking to make it's case to be a power conference moving forward...

 

[swg]

Before we talk about Big12 leftovers, we need to see what happens with the ACC. I've heard that the SEC is looking at Duke and UNC. They bring great hoops, as well as top 30 markets to the SEC. I could also see a Miami, FSU, GT, Clemson maybe. The BE shouldn't do much of anything aside from having back door talks right now.

 

[JasonS]

If Duke thinks they have it rough in Football now, just go to the SEC and see how many years it is before they win 1 game in conference. That would be the worst decision Duke could make IMO.