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Butler
- Thread starter jacobkdoyle
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This forum is pretty funny. Cobb is shooting 49% from 3 and 47% overall. Jenifer is shooting 43% from 3 and 48% overall. Shaq is shooting 43% from 3 and 46% overall. In here, Jenifer is a bum and should never shoot. Shaq and Cobb should be benched. Troy, who is shooting 37% from 3 and 45% overall has been anointed full control of the team, and has the green light to fire away. Johnson shooting 31% and 34% and Evans shooting 38% and 36% should become starters pushing Cobb and Shaq to the bench, and they too have the green light. So, it appears that the majority in the forum are going with the "Eye Test" and not the stupid advanced stats that certain people focus on.
jacobkdoyle
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This forum is pretty funny. Cobb is shooting 49% from 3 and 47% overall. Jenifer is shooting 43% from 3 and 48% overall. Shaq is shooting 43% from 3 and 46% overall. In here, Jenifer is a bum and should never shoot. Shaq and Cobb should be benched. Troy, who is shooting 37% from 3 and 45% overall has been anointed full control of the team, and has the green light to fire away. Johnson shooting 31% and 34% and Evans shooting 38% and 36% should become starters pushing Cobb and Shaq to the bench, and they too have the green light. So, it appears that the majority in the forum are going with the "Eye Test" and not the stupid advanced stats that certain people focus on.
Clark is shooting 67% from 3. Why he doesn't have the same green light as Steph Curry is beyond me.
Sample size! Shaq has attempted 7 3s, and Jenifer 14. Jenifer's sample size is so small that if he doesn't bank 2, he drops to 29%. Sample size! Sample size! Sample size! Cobb, TC, Evans and KJ have all attempted 34+ 3s...that gives you a better reading. KJ is the only one below 37% in that group. Troy has the green light for me bc he only takes shots he can step into. Cobb has the green light for me bc if he gets going, he can drop 20 at any given time. Evans has the green light bc he passes my eye test...he has taken a couple questionable ones and is still at 38%...his stroke is so smooth and he has zero trouble getting his shot off.
^I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with you, just pointing out why I personally stand where I stand.
cincrulz11
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This just in, 3 point shooting percentage is now an advanced stat. Watch out, maybe we'll get some rebounding averages in there too, really gotta push those advanced stats.
The best part is nobody has even really used advanced stats like ORtg, eFG%, and TS%, true "advanced" stats not to mention the countless others that focus on more than shooting.
The best part is nobody has even really used advanced stats like ORtg, eFG%, and TS%, true "advanced" stats not to mention the countless others that focus on more than shooting.
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Clark is shooting 67% from 3. Why he doesn't have the same green light as Steph Curry is beyond me.
Sample size! Shaq has attempted 7 3s, and Jenifer 14. Jenifer's sample size is so small that if he doesn't bank 2, he drops to 29%. Sample size! Sample size! Sample size! Cobb, TC, Evans and KJ have all attempted 34+ 3s...that gives you a better reading. KJ is the only one below 37% in that group. Troy has the green light for me bc he only takes shots he can step into. Cobb has the green light for me bc if he gets going, he can drop 20 at any given time. Evans has the green light bc he passes my eye test...he has taken a couple questionable ones and is still at 38%...his stroke is so smooth and he has zero trouble getting his shot off.
^I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with you, just pointing out why I personally stand where I stand.
I think we all understand it's a small sample size. My point would be...then let's see a little more from him before we tell him to STOP shooting open shots.
The kid has plenty of scoring history in HS and practice in front of Cronin. If he was constantly laying bricks Cronin would tell him only to shoot when he absolutely had to. The only stats I have found from HS had him shooting 24 of 42 for 60% in his sophomore year from 3. There is more you can add to the sample size. I am guessing by his scouting report maybe junior or senior year didn't go as well from 3. I don't think he's a knock down shooter but at the same time I am thinking he can MAYBE manage 31% like KJ did in his first year...and KJ is a volume shooter but hasn't finished a season above 35%.
His shot looked MUCH better (eye test) but his results haven't been stellar (stats). The eye test won't tell you how many butterflies are in a guys stomach when he's shooting. KJ clearly has/had the jitters the first couple of years. Jenifer seems like he has much more confidence than KJ had which is why I prefer results to "eye test".
This just in, 3 point shooting percentage is now an advanced stat. Watch out, maybe we'll get some rebounding averages in there too, really gotta push those advanced stats.
The best part is nobody has even really used advanced stats like ORtg, eFG%, and TS%, true "advanced" stats not to mention the countless others that focus on more than shooting.
LOL...I was thinking the same thing (and a stupid one at that)
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jacobkdoyle
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I think we all understand it's a small sample size. My point would be...then let's see a little more from him before we tell him to STOP shooting open shots.
The kid has plenty of scoring history in HS and practice in front of Cronin. If he was constantly laying bricks Cronin would tell him only to shoot when he absolutely had to. The only stats I have found from HS had him shooting 24 of 42 for 60% in his sophomore year from 3. There is more you can add to the sample size. I am guessing by his scouting report maybe junior or senior year didn't go as well from 3. I don't think he's a knock down shooter but at the same time I am thinking he can MAYBE manage 31% like KJ did in his first year...and KJ is a volume shooter but hasn't finished a season above 35%.
His shot looked MUCH better (eye test) but his results haven't been stellar (stats). The eye test won't tell you how many butterflies are in a guys stomach when he's shooting. KJ clearly has/had the jitters the first couple of years. Jenifer seems like he has much more confidence than KJ had which is why I prefer results to "eye test".
Sanders laid nothing but bricks but was still allowed to shoot. I don't think Mick would ever pull a kid aside, especially a freshman, and say "Don't shoot unless you absolutely have to". Again, Jenifer is going to get a lot of open shots bc there's no reason to guard him. So while no one is saying STOP shooting open shots altogether, he does have to be more selective, especially as a PG. He has other duties that he is neglecting when he fires up shots early in the shot clock...even if they're open.
Clark is shooting 67% from 3. Why he doesn't have the same green light as Steph Curry is beyond me.
Sample size! Shaq has attempted 7 3s, and Jenifer 14. Jenifer's sample size is so small that if he doesn't bank 2, he drops to 29%. Sample size! Sample size! Sample size! Cobb, TC, Evans and KJ have all attempted 34+ 3s...that gives you a better reading. KJ is the only one below 37% in that group. Troy has the green light for me bc he only takes shots he can step into. Cobb has the green light for me bc if he gets going, he can drop 20 at any given time. Evans has the green light bc he passes my eye test...he has taken a couple questionable ones and is still at 38%...his stroke is so smooth and he has zero trouble getting his shot off.
^I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with you, just pointing out why I personally stand where I stand.
Percentages are percentages. I think you're assuming that more sample size will cause Jenifer's percentage to drop. It may actually go the other way. When he was playing more and being allowed to break a sweat and get in the flow of the game, his percentages were very good. Now that he is getting minimal playing time, the percentages are starting to drop. We're never really going to know how he shoots with his playing time being where it is now. There's more pressure on him knowing that each shot may be all he gets. I'm still in the camp that says when he gets wide open, take it. Then base your next attempts on how the first one went. He air-balled the one the other day, and he quit shooting. That showed good judgement.
WAITE HOYT 2
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PG's are special players in my mind. Especially good ones. they have to be in touch not just with their game but everyone else's even the coach. What raised my eyebrows about the 3 he took against Butler was it was very early in shot clock. I'm sure if you asked him he would tell you, I should have looked for a better scoring opportunity. Had plenty of time to get off a 3. Those are young player mistakes. I bet he learns form that and we see far less of that. If he is the type of player I think he is Coach will not even have to tell him. He is learning about D-1 basketball. Understanding his capabilities and the players around him takes time. JJ's strengths from what I have seen are pushing the ball and penetrating the lane to set up a big or draw a foul. The areas I have seen which need improvement are defense and forcing the ball. All very common in young players. Guys, high school to this level of competition is a huge jump. JJ will be fine as will the Cats.I think we all understand it's a small sample size. My point would be...then let's see a little more from him before we tell him to STOP shooting open shots.
The kid has plenty of scoring history in HS and practice in front of Cronin. If he was constantly laying bricks Cronin would tell him only to shoot when he absolutely had to. The only stats I have found from HS had him shooting 24 of 42 for 60% in his sophomore year from 3. There is more you can add to the sample size. I am guessing by his scouting report maybe junior or senior year didn't go as well from 3. I don't think he's a knock down shooter but at the same time I am thinking he can MAYBE manage 31% like KJ did in his first year...and KJ is a volume shooter but hasn't finished a season above 35%.
His shot looked MUCH better (eye test) but his results haven't been stellar (stats). The eye test won't tell you how many butterflies are in a guys stomach when he's shooting. KJ clearly has/had the jitters the first couple of years. Jenifer seems like he has much more confidence than KJ had which is why I prefer results to "eye test".
cincrulz11
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Percentages are percentages. I think you're assuming that more sample size will cause Jenifer's percentage to drop. It may actually go the other way.
Not likely to go the other way when he's taken 14, 1 has missed everything, and 2 have completely missed the rim and banked in. Good shooters don't miss the rim like that, not that often, especially when open. You know that is true, you know your eyes tell you he's not a good shooter. But this is the side you've chosen.
PG's are special players in my mind. Especially good ones. they have to be in touch not just with their game but everyone else's even the coach. What raised my eyebrows about the 3 he took against Butler was it was very early in shot clock. I'm sure if you asked him he would tell you, I should have looked for a better scoring opportunity. Had plenty of time to get off a 3. Those are young player mistakes. I bet he learns form that and we see far less of that. If he is the type of player I think he is Coach will not even have to tell him. He is learning about D-1 basketball. Understanding his capabilities and the players around him takes time. JJ's strengths from what I have seen are pushing the ball and penetrating the lane to set up a big or draw a foul. The areas I have seen which need improvement are defense and forcing the ball. All very common in young players. Guys, high school to this level of competition is a huge jump. JJ will be fine as will the Cats.
I agree with everyone else on what his PRIMARY focus should be. driving and distributing. That being said his choice of shot would come up somewhere near last on my list of complaints from the Butler game. I have much bigger problems with some of the decisions our veterans and coaches made
Not likely to go the other way when he's taken 14, 1 has missed everything, and 2 have completely missed the rim and banked in. Good shooters don't miss the rim like that, not that often, especially when open. You know that is true, you know your eyes tell you he's not a good shooter. But this is the side you've chosen.
Taking sides??? This is one of our players and a very good recruit. Excuse me for being on his side. You might want to try it yourself. It's actually fun to root for a young player and for his potential.
Watehead found stats (ring a bell?) that show he shot 60% in high school, so why are you convinced of anything else? Are you hoping he fails? Jim Furyk has one of the ugliest golf swings on Earth, but he's top 10 in the world.
So, I guess you're now signing off on the eye test over the stats? I wish you would take a stance and stick with it. But, it's good to see that you now see the stats as being kind of stupid as well.
I agree with everyone else on what his PRIMARY focus should be. driving and distributing. That being said his choice of shot would come up somewhere near last on my list of complaints from the Butler game. I have much bigger problems with some of the decisions our veterans and coaches made[/QUOTE]
BINGO! Good to see someone finally get to the real issue. And, nobody in that starting lineup escapes this statement.
Sanders laid nothing but bricks but was still allowed to shoot. I don't think Mick would ever pull a kid aside, especially a freshman, and say "Don't shoot unless you absolutely have to". Again, Jenifer is going to get a lot of open shots bc there's no reason to guard him. So while no one is saying STOP shooting open shots altogether, he does have to be more selective, especially as a PG. He has other duties that he is neglecting when he fires up shots early in the shot clock...even if they're open.
I guess you and I will have to disagree on this particular issue...but that's okay I understand everyone's point...I just disagree.
He has taken 6 shots in his last 4 games. Only a single shot in the last game and it was wide open. I don't think that is what I would refer to as aggressively seeking shots. And I also don't have a problem with him taking wide open looks early in the clock. Some of you do and I think that is an ok opinion to have as well...because I understand why.
I just disagree because last year most of us didn't like how often we kept getting stuck with a poor attempt because the clock was winding down. I guess what some of you are saying is you would rather risk that than have Jenifer taking open looks early and that is okay I guess...just not for me.
jacobkdoyle
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I guess you and I will have to disagree on this particular issue...but that's okay I understand everyone's point...I just disagree.
He has taken 6 shots in his last 4 games. Only a single shot in the last game and it was wide open. I don't think that is what I would refer to as aggressively seeking shots. And I also don't have a problem with him taking wide open looks early in the clock. Some of you do and I think that is an ok opinion to have as well...because I understand why.
I just disagree because last year most of us didn't like how often we kept getting stuck with a poor attempt because the clock was winding down. I guess what some of you are saying is you would rather risk that than have Jenifer taking open looks early and that is okay I guess...just not for me.
Fair enough.
cincrulz11
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Watehead found stats (ring a bell?) that show he shot 60% in high school, so why are you convinced of anything else?
He shot 26.7 % from 3 last year btw.
He shot 26.7 % from 3 last year btw.
OK thanks. I wonder why the big drop off from soph season to senior
cincrulz11
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OK thanks. I wonder why the big drop off from soph season to senior
The number I posted was AAU I think. I honestly don't know that I really trust either one of the numbers. 60% is insane for anybody. I said it before and I'll say it again, really good 3 point shooters don't miss the rim on 3 of 14 open attempts.
With that said, I hope he shoots 60%, I want them to always go in when he shoots them. He can bank them for days, Lord knows we've had our fair share of banks against us.
OK thanks. I wonder why the big drop off from soph season to senior
Fans started telling him his shot was ugly.
Bearcat513
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Didn't Jenifer's stats all drop a bit from his junior year to his senior year? Maybe he just had a bad year his senior year.
Someone mentioned that each player needs to know his role. Couldn't agree more. For Jenifer I think his role is just giving Caupain a breather. He needs to come in, take care of the ball, set up his teammates for good shots, and play solid defense. His role isn't to come off the bench and spark a huge offensive run with his shot. Not this season.
Someone mentioned that each player needs to know his role. Couldn't agree more. For Jenifer I think his role is just giving Caupain a breather. He needs to come in, take care of the ball, set up his teammates for good shots, and play solid defense. His role isn't to come off the bench and spark a huge offensive run with his shot. Not this season.