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waterhead said:
This may happen but I don't think it will be a good development. We aren't particularly effective when this happens. Best bet is that Jenifer figures out what Mick wants to see
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Hope he does but as well. As I posted earlier having all playing well is good for the team.
 
waterhead said:
He may not pull players during the game for taking an ill advised shot but you have to know that Cronin tells each player in practice what is considered acceptable from them during a game in terms of where they can shoot from and when and why.

If you think Jenifer is going to shoot open 3's EVEN if Cronin has told him in practice not to...you're crazy. He was wide open...he took it...he missed...big deal
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I'm not sure what you are arguing. My point is that using the argument that Mick doesn't pull a guy for taking a shot means that he is a good shooter or Mick wants him to take the shot is an invalid argument, but Longtimer consistently uses it.

I'm sure as hell Mick coaches them on what is and isn't a good shot. What is your point? He probably coached Jenifer after he took the ill advised shot, because it was an ill advised shot. Jenifer should shoot when wide open in the flow of the offense. That's about it for right now. Players need to have and know their roles.
 
TheLongHaul said:
He didn't yank him for the shot. He wasn't happy about it but DeBerry had just given up points on the other end. Just because Mick gives players freedom doesn't mean he is happy with any shot. He was pretty disgusted with some of Evans' shots last night as well.



Agreed, which is why it's so important that Mick established Jenifer's role. And that role isn't to be the main guy.
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Oh come on....lol! So, Mick had not yet pointed to someone to get Deberry out. Deberry bricks an 18 footer. Mick instantaneously points down the bench for someone to go in for Deberry, and you have somehow seen inside his head to conclude that even though it was a....stupid shot....and an instant reaction by Mick to get him out, that somehow he was OK with the shot and he was still stewing over some points he gave up on the other end....and that was really why he was taking him out. Great job of dancing around that one. Since I have the game taped, I'm going to have to go back and fact check you now to see just how good of a dancer that you really are. If I happen to see Deberry really did make some kind of an egregious defensive mistake on the other end, then I'll take back the dancing comment and just call you an amazing mind reader, since you really know exactly why Mick took him out even though the actual events say differently.
 
My only thing about Jenifer taking open shots is...he's going to get a lot of them. No point in a defense playing right up on him. I'd let him take jumpers all day long if I'm the opposing coach. He just has to learn, and he will, what works in the flow of a true team offense.
 
TheLongHaul said:
I'm not sure what you are arguing. My point is that using the argument that Mick doesn't pull a guy for taking a shot means that he is a good shooter or Mick wants him to take the shot is an invalid argument, but Longtimer consistently uses it.

I'm sure as hell Mick coaches them on what is and isn't a good shot. What is your point? He probably coached Jenifer after he took the ill advised shot, because it was an ill advised shot. Jenifer should shoot when wide open in the flow of the offense. That's about it for right now. Players need to have and know their roles.
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Why do you say it was ill advised? He was wide open. My point is Cronin doesn't just tell his kids in practice they can shoot from wherever they want and so when it comes to playing in a game they tend to take the shots that Mick has OK'd from practice.

Do you think it was ill advised simply because you think he's a poor shooter and you don't want him shooting anything but layups?
 
TheLongHaul said:
He didn't yank him for the shot. He wasn't happy about it but DeBerry had just given up points on the other end. Just because Mick gives players freedom doesn't mean he is happy with any shot. He was pretty disgusted with some of Evans' shots last night as well.



Agreed, which is why it's so important that Mick established Jenifer's role. And that role isn't to be the main guy.
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Just as I suspected, you completely fabricated a story to support your own statement and make mine look bad. I think that is called trolling.

Anyway, on the defensive possession just before Deberry took his shot. Dunhan ran the baseline completely free and all the way around to the high left wing and was wide open. Deberry hustled out to try to stop the wide open 3. Dunham dribbled to his left and at that point Clark was closing fast and Deberry was closing fast. Dunham took a big step back jump stop towards the corner and hit a falling away 2 with both Clark and Deberry contesting. Mick had zero reaction to that basket. He was standing with his hands behind his back and said nothing or did nothing.

The possession before that, Dunham shot a contested air ball from the right wing with Deberry not even in the play.

The possession before that Martin missed a shot from the right wing.

The possession before that, someone drove around Ellis at the left wing, got into the paint and hit a floater. Deberry was guarding his man in the opposite baseline and left his man to try to help off on Ellis' man, but he still hit the shot.

So, the bottom line is that Deberry had done nothing noticeable to anger Mick, until he took the ill advised shot, at which time he was immediately removed from the game. Nice try. Nice dancing.
 
waterhead said:
Why do you say it was ill advised? He was wide open. My point is Cronin doesn't just tell his kids in practice they can shoot from wherever they want and so when it comes to playing in a game they tend to take the shots that Mick has OK'd from practice.

Do you think it was ill advised simply because you think he's a poor shooter and you don't want him shooting anything but layups?
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I re-watched that shot as well. You almost can't not take that shot. He was so wide open. But, it was in the first 10 seconds of the shot clock, so that's a damned if you do and damned if you don't moment. But, it's probably a negative that it was so early in the shot clock. He missed the shot and from then on, he was open a lot, and passed up future shots. So, I like the fact that he showed maturity after he missed and didn't force anything else. The shot cost us nothing. Butler missed their shot on the other end, so no damage was done. Dunham missed his shot after Jenifer slipped and turned the ball over as well, so his two mistakes cost us nothing....but they obviously could have.
 
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I'm not sure you can say they didn't cost us anything, they cost possessions where a better shot could have been taken and had a higher probability of going in, no guarantee, but it definitely cost the team a possession and when you take 14 less shots than your opponent every possession is precious, and that goes out to the whole team, not just JJ.
 
david aka the TYZ said:
Anyone else think KJ should start next game over Cobb?
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I was thinking about that...I'd personally say not at this point. Imo Cobb deserves an opportunity to get out of his little funk and to try to get himself going. I don't want to do anything rash bc we lost a game. I know he has struggled a couple games now going back before last night, but I'd keep him in there for now.
 
Bearcat_NTS said:
I think both him and Evans should start next game.
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I'd like to see Evans start and play with the 1st unit as much as possible. Shaq played pretty well coming off the bench last year too. I'd prefer to see Evans in for Shaq over KJ in for Cobb.
 
KJ I think could help with the defensive funk we're in. Cronin wants to sure up the defense. I wouldn't mind seeing Evans starting either but I doubt that will happen being a freshman over senior. Both figure to be splitting minutes anyway, I'm guessing he'd rather Evans be in with 2nd unit because he can create offense better with lesser offensive players on floor.
 
david aka the TYZ said:
KJ I think could help with the defensive funk we're in. Cronin wants to sure up the defense. I wouldn't mind seeing Evans starting either but I doubt that will happen being a freshman over senior. Both figure to be splitting minutes anyway, I'm guessing he'd rather Evans be in with 2nd unit because he can create offense better with lesser offensive players on floor.
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Quad isn't going to be in the rotation against good teams. I'd like to see Shaq as the primary back up at the 4 for Gary.
 
jacobkdoyle said:
I'd like to see Evans start and play with the 1st unit as much as possible. Shaq played pretty well coming off the bench last year too. I'd prefer to see Evans in for Shaq over KJ in for Cobb.
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Last night not more than 90 seconds into the half Evans was being subbed for Shaq, similar to cobb and KJ last year.

Did the Phantom foul/Tech remind anyone else of the Houston FB game with 4 15 yard penalties after they stopped Ward.
 
jacobkdoyle said:
My only thing about Jenifer taking open shots is...he's going to get a lot of them. No point in a defense playing right up on him. I'd let him take jumpers all day long if I'm the opposing coach. He just has to learn, and he will, what works in the flow of a true team offense.
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isn't jenifer 3pt% better than Evans?
 
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