Coaching Carousel

[Bearcats Sports]

If the playoff system involved 8 teams, giving mid major conferences a better chance to make the playoff, do you think the UC job would be more desirable? Knowing that a 12-0 season with at least one quality win could land you a spot in the playoffs. Someone like Brohm could have come here knowing that his chances of making the playoff is much greater than a Purdue team who has nothing going for them. We also have the money to pay coaches just a little less than what they would make at a terrible power 5 school.

 

[jacobkdoyle]

It's very frustrating Jake. Was really looking to land a seat at the table. My fear is this is just the tip of the iceberg.

We can lock in a good coach right now for the foreseeable future. We can turn things around and get back into AAC Title and New Year's 6 contention. The way things are laid out right now, that's our path. We can make a good hire and win some football games, or we can complain about how unfair everything is...Give me a young coach with a fire to him and the winning will take care of itself. Thus solving a lot of our frustrations. We aren't playing for nothing. We have a beautiful stadium and a tough league with a track record of rising coaches. We also have the funds currently to get someone who can lead the program. Gotta start somewhere. Can't fold up shop and call it a loss.

Truth is, we can take risks on coaches. We're in that position. It can be a blessing. Many P5 schools can't afford to gamble on inexperience and/or won't pay top dollar for it. That's the AAC's wheelhouse. Use it to our advantage. Go find the next Fleck and get him before he becomes Fleck. To me, that's Neal Brown. Nothing I've seen tells me he can't be had. And if we hit on someone like that, we'll be in (albeit temporarily) a better spot than most P5 schools. The part where the frustration comes in is continuing to hit the reset button and not being able to afford a miss. Bohn knows where we are. He knows what he needs to do. Hopefully he can pull it off. We can't worry about 'The Big Picture' right now. We need to focus on the first step for our own survival, which is putting someone in place to turn this thing around.

 

[WAITE HOYT 2]

We can lock in a good coach right now for the foreseeable future. We can turn things around and get back into AAC Title and New Year's 6 contention. The way things are laid out right now, that's our path. We can make a good hire and win some football games, or we can complain about how unfair everything is...Give me a young coach with a fire to him and the winning will take care of itself. Thus solving a lot of our frustrations. We aren't playing for nothing. We have a beautiful stadium and a tough league with a track record of rising coaches. We also have the funds currently to get someone who can lead the program. Gotta start somewhere. Can't fold up shop and call it a loss.

Truth is, we can take risks on coaches. We're in that position. It can be a blessing. Many P5 schools can't afford to gamble on inexperience and/or won't pay top dollar for it. That's the AAC's wheelhouse. Use it to our advantage. Go find the next Fleck and get him before he becomes Fleck. To me, that's Neal Brown. Nothing I've seen tells me he can't be had. And if we hit on someone like that, we'll be in (albeit temporarily) a better spot than most P5 schools. The part where the frustration comes in is continuing to hit the reset button and not being able to afford a miss. Bohn knows where we are. He knows what he needs to do. Hopefully he can pull it off. We can't worry about 'The Big Picture' right now. We need to focus on the first step for our own survival, which is putting someone in place to turn this thing around.

I'm sure your right. I guess the older I get the less patient I become. Go figure! I'll still root for the home team and go to the games.

 

[UCBearcats]

I see your point but part of the issue is what your also able to pay your staff.
This is just the start of the have and have nots. The gap will get wider. The fact we committed millions to get in the game should tell you something.

I also never said we couldn't be good. We certainly can compete and should in our league. The world of sports is about money unfortunately for the fans. Take your suggestion to the board of directors. Oh and if anyone spreads rhetoric it's your constant berating of our basketball coach. Do us all a favor if you have a problem with the coach quit boring the sh#t out of us and take it up with the BOT. I'm sure they would be interested in your opinion. Another example of baiting people to derail the thread.

You are absolutely right my friend. I spread rhetoric because I have an agenda and that is to make UC great again. Not good, not average, not mediocre, but great. If you believe Waite you can achieve. We can be great again!

 

[Jon Rycek]

You are absolutely right my friend. I spread rhetoric because I have an agenda and that is to make UC great again. Not good, not average, not mediocre, but great. If you believe Waite you can achieve. We can be great again!

You spread hate, end of story

 

[WAITE HOYT 2]

You are absolutely right my friend. I spread rhetoric because I have an agenda and that is to make UC great again. Not good, not average, not mediocre, but great. If you believe Waite you can achieve. We can be great again!

Well I then I suggest you start with the BOT and ask why schools like Louisville and Pittsburgh got seats at the big table and we didn't. If you get a answer you my be on your way to fixing the problem.

 

[UCBearcats]

Well I then I suggest you start with the BOT and ask why schools like Louisville and Pittsburgh got seats at the big table and we didn't. If you get a answer you my be on your way to fixing the problem.

Let's get back on topic. I'll start here in the thread about our next coach by not settling for anything less than a great hire. Great programs are built by great coaches. What's happening right now will be the single most important thing that happens to our football program for the next 4 years.

Instead of telling me all the reasons why you don't think we can get someone how bout starting with a list of who you want? Who would you like to see as our next HC Waite?

 

[Alum2013]

Rumors appear to be putting Lane Kiffin with Houston but nothing official yet.

 

[WAITE HOYT 2]

Let's get back on topic. I'll start here in the thread about our next coach by not settling for anything less than a great hire. Great programs are built by great coaches. What's happening right now will be the single most important thing that happens to our football program for the next 4 years.

Instead of telling me all the reasons why you don't think we can get someone how bout starting with a list of who you want? Who would you like to see as our next HC Waite?

i would bE good with Charlie Strong. Not sold on Fickell. He has been a assistant for awhile at a very successful program and has drawn little interest.DC are not hot right now. If Strong could get it done at Louisville he should be able to get it done there. I feel the boosters st Texas were against him from day 1. Would love to see him prove them wrong.

 

[UCBearcats]

i would bE good with Charlie Strong. Not sold on Fickell. He has been a assistant for awhile at a very successful program and has drawn little interest.DC are not hot right now. If Strong could get it done at Louisville he should be able to get it done there. I feel the boosters st Texas were against him from day 1. Would love to see him prove them wrong.

I like Charlie Strong too, he wouldn't be my first choice but I do like him. I agree on Fickell.

I think Strong would be a great recruiter and as you said he was already successful at U of L and he did a good job of recruiting locally while he was there. I'm not a huge fan of his X's and O's and don't feel like he bring a dynamic offense with him plus he's 56 so I'd wonder about his motivation after everything that's recently happened to him. My preference would be for a young up and coming looking to make a name for himself who could bring in a dynamic offensive system but I think Strong could build a solid program here.

Given the fact that you really seem to be set on the changing environment in CFB and how it holds us back do you have any reason to believe that we couldn't land Strong if the interest was mutual?? I doubt he's going to get any opportunities to dive right back into a big time job so he probably needs a place like UC to rebuild his brand. I think we could get him if that's what we ultimately decide is best. Obviously there's a lot of other factors at play too that would lead into his decision. I know his UT buyout goes down significantly if he gets another job. Maybe he'll just decide to take a year off and be an analyst and hop back into the fold next year.

 

[WAITE HOYT 2]

I like Charlie Strong too, he wouldn't be my first choice but I do like him. I agree on Fickell.

I think Strong would be a great recruiter and as you said he was already successful at U of L and he did a good job of recruiting locally while he was there. I'm not a huge fan of his X's and O's and don't feel like he bring a dynamic offense with him plus he's 56 so I'd wonder about his motivation after everything that's recently happened to him. My preference would be for a young up and coming looking to make a name for himself who could bring in a dynamic offensive system but I think Strong could build a solid program here.

Given the fact that you really seem to be set on the changing environment in CFB and how it holds us back do you have any reason to believe that we couldn't land Strong if the interest was mutual?? I doubt he's going to get any opportunities to dive right back into a big time job so he probably needs a place like UC to rebuild his brand. I think we could get him if that's what we ultimately decide is best. Obviously there's a lot of other factors at play too that would lead into his decision. I know his UT buyout goes down significantly if he gets another job. Maybe he'll just decide to take a year off and be an analyst and hop back into the fold next year.

Depends how beat up he feels. Also he may have something to prove to those at Texas. Part of his downfall there was he was really holding the players feet to the fire on and off the field. This apparently didn't sit well with the boosters who have the win first mentality. Strong discharged a bunch of kids the first year he took over if memory serves me. He knows this area which is a benefit but as you say he may just want a year to decompress. Texas represented a big opportunity for him and he just got canned. Hard to say where his head is now. I also think economics will play a part. He is going to collect a bunch of money to sit home and do nothing.

 

[UCBearcats]

Depends how beat up he feels. Also he may have something to prove to those at Texas. Part of his downfall there was he was really holding the players feet to the fire on and off the field. This apparently didn't sit well with the boosters who have the win first mentality. Strong discharged a bunch of kids the first year he took over if memory serves me. He knows this area which is a benefit but as you say he may just want a year to decompress. Texas represented a big opportunity for him and he just got canned. Hard to say where his head is now. I also think economics will play a part. He is going to collect a bunch of money to sit home and do nothing.

I agree and it's pretty clear there are a lot of factors with him besides just the stature of our job. Do you see any reason why this wouldn't be an attractive enough job for a Neal Brown or a Lincoln Riley (my top 2 choices at this point) or even a Jason Candle or Scott Satterfield?

I'm not going to pretend like the landscape of CFB isn't changing but it's also not a death blow to UC. We're in the situation we're in right now because we failed with our last hire, not because things in CFB have changed so much we can no longer keep up. Being a P5 school is certainly not a guarantee of success. Schools like USF, Houston, Western Kentucky and Western Michigan are having more success this season than 70% of the P5 schools. They are doing it because they all have (or just recently had) a great coach. We can get back there too if and only if we don't screw up this important decision.

 

[WAITE HOYT 2]

I like Charlie Strong too, he wouldn't be my first choice but I do like him. I agree on Fickell.

I think Strong would be a great recruiter and as you said he was already successful at U of L and he did a good job of recruiting locally while he was there. I'm not a huge fan of his X's and O's and don't feel like he bring a dynamic offense with him plus he's 56 so I'd wonder about his motivation after everything that's recently happened to him. My preference would be for a young up and coming looking to make a name for himself who could bring in a dynamic offensive system but I think Strong could build a solid program here.

Given the fact that you really seem to be set on the changing environment in CFB and how it holds us back do you have any reason to believe that we couldn't land Strong if the interest was mutual?? I doubt he's going to get any opportunities to dive right back into a big time job so he probably needs a place like UC to rebuild his brand. I think we could get him if that's what we ultimately decide is best. Obviously there's a lot of other factors at play too that would lead into his decision. I know his UT buyout goes down significantly if he gets another job. Maybe he'll just decide to take a year off and be an analyst and hop back into the fold next year.

I also think that up and coming young coaches such as Fleck will hold out for a P5 job. He may feel WMU to Cincinnati is a lateral move. I really haven't looked at his roster but he may feel even if he doesn't land a P5 job his best opportunity to build on a great season is at WMU. It also maybe that they are offering him a nice extension. Coming off a 13-0 season he may feel he is as hot as he is going to get. Ultimately most want the best P-5 job they can get. The money is much better and he will be able to pay his assistants much more as well. it isn't always about him in this business.

 

[UCBearcats]

I also think that up and coming young coaches such as Fleck will hold out for a P5 job. He may feel WMU to Cincinnati is a lateral move. I really haven't looked at his roster but he may feel even if he doesn't land a P5 job his best opportunity to build on a great season is at WMU. It also maybe that they are offering him a nice extension. Coming off a 13-0 season he may feel he is as hot as he is going to get. Ultimately most want the best P-5 job they can get. The money is much better and he will be able to pay his assistants much more as well. it isn't always about him in this business.

Don't agree with you there. Fleck may be holding out for a big time P5 job but WMU and UC are not a lateral move. If Fleck goes from the MAC straight to a big time P5 job he'll be the guy who broke the mold. Fleck told UC he wasn't interested in speaking to us but he also told Purdue the same thing.

I'm not sure what Fleck's reasons are but there's a lot of other reasons why he might not be interested other than it being a lateral move. Maybe he just feels like the rebuild at UC would take 3-5 years and he doesn't want to commit to that. If he stays one more season at WMU with a loaded roster (compared to his competition) maybe next season T A&M or another big time job opens up, then he can make his move.

What about Brown, Riley, Candle or Satterfield? Any reason why those guys wouldn't be interested in leaving Troy, App State, Toledo or getting their first opportunity as a HC and completely bypassing the lowest level of coaching jobs?

So you want Strong but think there's a lot of reasons why he might be unattainable (and i agree) and you think that all young up and coming coaches would rather skip UC and go straight to the P5. So what's left??? Who can we get Waite, you're painting a pretty bleak picture here.

 

[WAITE HOYT 2]

I agree and it's pretty clear there are a lot of factors with him besides just the stature of our job. Do you see any reason why this wouldn't be an attractive enough job for a Neal Brown or a Lincoln Riley (my top 2 choices at this point) or even a Jason Candle or Scott Satterfield?

I'm not going to pretend like the landscape of CFB isn't changing but it's also not a death blow to UC. We're in the situation we're in right now because we failed with our last hire, not because things in CFB have changed so much we can no longer keep up. Being a P5 school is certainly not a guarantee of success. Schools like USF, Houston, Western Kentucky and Western Michigan are having more success this season than 70% of the P5 schools. They are doing it because they all have (or just recently had) a great coach. We can get back there too if and only if we don't screw up this important decision.

Coaching is huge but landing and developing a good QB is also very important. LOL! Building a good team in the AAC is tough because of the kids you have access to but certainly not impossible. As you pointed out it is being done. My fear is the gap is only going to get wider making it more difficult. Networks have way to much say so in who does what. I wish I could say I see that changing but I don't. I also have little faith in our administration. We were never going to be as hot as we were when we made our run. They really missed the boat. They got started late and have been trying to play catch up ever since. Louisville and Pittsburgh were miles ahead of us and we were the better program. Day late and a dollar short. To make a long story short we can do well in the AAC but I want more then doing well in a small pond. I think you do to.

 

[UCBearcats]

Coaching is huge but landing and developing a good QB is also very important. LOL! Building a good team in the AAC is tough because of the kids you have access to but certainly not impossible. As you pointed out it is being done. My fear is the gap is only going to get wider making it more difficult. Networks have way to much say so in who does what. I wish I could say I see that changing but I don't. I also have little faith in our administration. We were never going to be as hot as we were when we made our run. They really missed the boat. They got started late and have been trying to play catch up ever since. Louisville and Pittsburgh were miles ahead of us and we were the better program. Day late and a dollar short. To make a long story short we can do well in the AAC but I want more then doing well in a small pond. I think you do to.

Waite, we all want to be included in the group of P5's but the reality is that we're not. You constantly bring up how the deck is stacked against us but there are plenty of recent examples of schools proving that not only P5's can have success. Boise State, WMU, WKU, USF, Houston, and Temple are all schools that won at a high level this season.

Is there any reason why you think we're at a disadvantage here at UC compared to the schools listed above?? Is there any reason to believe that if we had Tom Herman or PJ Fleck at UC for the last 3-4 years we wouldn't have also been successful??

I say no but I'm interested to hear if you think otherwise.

 

[WAITE HOYT 2]

Don't agree with you there. Fleck may be holding out for a big time P5 job but WMU and UC are not a lateral move. If Fleck goes from the MAC straight to a big time P5 job he'll be the guy who broke the mold. Fleck told UC he wasn't interested in speaking to us but he also told Purdue the same thing.

I'm not sure what Fleck's reasons are but there's a lot of other reasons why he might not be interested other than it being a lateral move. Maybe he just feels like the rebuild at UC would take 3-5 years and he doesn't want to commit to that. If he stays one more season at WMU with a loaded roster (compared to his competition) maybe next season T A&M or another big time job opens up, then he can make his move.

What about Brown, Riley, Candle or Satterfield? Any reason why those guys wouldn't be interested in leaving Troy, App State, Toledo or getting their first opportunity as a HC and completely bypassing the lowest level of coaching jobs?

So you want Strong but think there's a lot of reasons why he might be unattainable (and i agree) and you think that all young up and coming coaches would rather skip UC and go straight to the P5. So what's left??? Who can we get Waite, you're painting a pretty bleak picture here.

I think young up and coming coaches have to protect their brand. Strike while the iron is hot. I don't think you'll see many turn down a P5 job to wait on a better opportunity. Especially if they have loaded rosters. Coming to UC is rolling the dice at this point. I would be happy with Riley. It will be interesting to see who we get.

As for Fleck to not even want to talk with us is very disturbing.

 

[UCBearcats]

As for Fleck to not even want to talk with us is very disturbing.

Fleck didn't want to speak to Purdue either. I think there's more going on there with him than just P5. Even if we get into a P5 we'd have ton of work to do to become an elite P5 job, and it may not ever happen.

There is a big gap between the perennial Top 25 CFB programs and everyone else and it's always been that way. Getting into a P5 is not going to change that for UC. I think Fleck is holding out for one of those 25 jobs.

The best way we can close that gap in the short term is to hire a great coach, and eventually we'll lose that same coach to one of those 25 programs. That's the way CFB has always worked and it's nothing new.

 

[WAITE HOYT 2]

Waite, we all want to be included in the group of P5's but the reality is that we're not. You constantly bring up how the deck is stacked against us but there are plenty of recent examples of schools proving that not only P5's can have success. Boise State, WMU, WKU, USF, Houston, and Temple are all schools that won at a high level this season.

Is there any reason why you think we're at a disadvantage here at UC compared to the schools listed above?? Is there any reason to believe that if we had Tom Herman or PJ Fleck at UC for the last 3-4 years we wouldn't have also been successful??

I say no but I'm interested to hear if you think otherwise.

I'm not interested in rolling the dice every 3 years. I am 63 years old. You no how long I waited to see us finally become a relevant program. We used to get our brains beat out with a handful of people watching. Check out the basketball years between Jucker and Huggins. If you make a bad hire it can set you back years. you rarely see a guy fired after 1 year. I want stability. I don't want to be a minor league for the big boys. We got that with the reds. We also invested millions to avoid that but got shut out. It irritates me that Louisville and Pittsburgh got in and we didn't. If you want to make the best out of a bad situation I'm fine with that but I'm pissed.

 

[UCBearcats]

I'm not interested in rolling the dice every 3 years. I am 63 years old. You no how long I waited to see us finally become a relevant program. We used to get our brains beat out with a handful of people watching. Check out the basketball years between Jucker and Huggins. If you make a bad hire it can set you back years. you rarely see a guy fired after 1 year. I want stability. I don't want to be a minor league for the big boys. We got that with the reds. We also invested millions to avoid that but got shut out. It irritates me that Louisville and Pittsburgh got in and we didn't. If you want to make the best out of a bad situation I'm fine with that but I'm pissed.

I agree, believe me I'm sick and tired of waiting. We turned the corner though because of our coaches and we fell back because we hired the wrong coach. Even when we were in the Big East we still lost our great coach to a better job. That's how CFB has always worked Waite, nothing has changed that much in the last few years to really put is in a much worse spot.

For every great coach UC gets there's always going to be a Florida or Tennessee or FSU or ND or Texas or USC ready to take them when they want to.

I don't think one has too much to do with the other Waite. Right now we're focused on a coach and we need to hope that Mike Bohn is proficient enough to make the right hire. It's the only thing that going to get you back to enjoying our football program again.

Here's some good new for you though, the CFB Playoff will expand to 8 teams very soon. When that happens the gap between the haves and have not's will lessen up just a little bit. It's almost impossible right now at 4 but at 8 you'll have non P5 teams in the playoff every few years. I believe that we'll eventually see it go to 16 once these guys realize the piles of money they're going to make at 8.