Difference between IU and UC

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No offense is intended in this, but Cincinnati has a well known fair weather fan base. It just is what it is. They hold on to the past, are critical above measure even when winning. If they could only realize what their support would do to help the program is so many ways!

If anything, I'd say Cincinnati has some of the best fans. Let's just look at the teams.

The Bengals have sucked for the past 18 years yet they kept selling out during Lewis' tenure.

The Reds had their first post season in 15 years. They haven't been to the WS since 1990.

The Bearcats football team has sucked since their existence with exception to the Bryan Kelly years and they did a pretty good job selling Nippert when before there was no interest at all.

And finally the basketball team has been pretty bad for the past 5 years. Last year they were decent and they are decent again. Given everything that is going on (bad economy, costs of attending for a family, HD tv, lack of exciting play, etc) and you can see why people aren't coming out in droves.

So people can blame the people of Cincinnati all they want but the teams they have supported have done nothing to gain their support. Cincinnati has to be one of the least successful sports towns in the last 30 years.
 
I wouldn't go as far as to classify Cincinnati as having the "worst fans", but they do have their short comings.

Even though our Metro Area has about 2.2 million people, we are a very fractured community. East side vs West Side. Ohio vs Northern Kentucky. City vs Suburbs. Not to mention the ridiculous number of major sports organizations both in and surrounding our city that definitely draw loyalty and money from our citizens. Within a 100 mile radius we have 10+, not counting UC FBall and BBall (Reds, Bengals, Xavier, UD, UK FBall and BBall, osu FBall and BBall, L'ville FBall and BBall and a few others that probably don't really effect anything).

Once you sort out those that dont have conflicting allegiences, there is a HUGE number of people in this city that will only spend money on things that offer pure, no questions asked entertainment or provide a sense of being "cool" (Kinda like the shootout sold out because it was the "place to be" that night in Cincy). The only way to draw those people is to win, win more, win big, be on ESPN everyday and win some more. That being said it is a whole hell of a lot easier to win with a packed house that influences both the teams' on court intensity and the desirability of our program, to recruits.

And lets not forget what might be the biggest reason fans don't come to games...they had to stay home to watch Survivor and Police Women of Cincinnati.
 
I agree with Who dey time on his belief that a very good portion of UC fans are fans of the coach and not the University. But in all honesty, it is that way at a lot of schools. UK under Pitino, IU under Knight, Georgia Tech under Kremins etc. I even saw a huge group at an OSU game holding up placards of Mattas face in front of their own. Those who had to come in and replace those icons had negative bounces in attendance at first.

In all honesty, here I think the fans under Huggins feel unwanted and ridiculed to the point of resentment. In Who dey times description of those fans being "sad and pathetic", it shows what I mean. I think we as fans of the school should accept their bitterness and work towards bringing them back home instead of the "we dont need them" approach most have taken. Get the Huggins fans back and the arena will be full again IMO. A side note. I read attendance this season was down 36% from last season despite our great record. Does anyone know if that is true?


Last time I checked, UK sells out every game and has no matter who the coach was. IU may have had a lot of Knight fans but they support that program far and away better than UC fans have. Georgia Tech is irrelevant because they are rarely good anyway. OSU fans are apathetic towards the entire program so it really doesn't matter who the coach is.
 
I wouldn't go as far as to classify Cincinnati as having the "worst fans", but they do have their short comings.

Even though our Metro Area has about 2.2 million people, we are a very fractured community. East side vs West Side. Ohio vs Northern Kentucky. City vs Suburbs. Not to mention the ridiculous number of major sports organizations both in and surrounding our city that definitely draw loyalty and money from our citizens. Within a 100 mile radius we have 10+, not counting UC FBall and BBall (Reds, Bengals, Xavier, UD, UK FBall and BBall, osu FBall and BBall, L'ville FBall and BBall and a few others that probably don't really effect anything).

Once you sort out those that dont have conflicting allegiences, there is a HUGE number of people in this city that will only spend money on things that offer pure, no questions asked entertainment or provide a sense of being "cool" (Kinda like the shootout sold out because it was the "place to be" that night in Cincy). The only way to draw those people is to win, win more, win big, be on ESPN everyday and win some more. That being said it is a whole hell of a lot easier to win with a packed house that influences both the teams' on court intensity and the desirability of our program, to recruits.

And lets not forget what might be the biggest reason fans don't come to games...they had to stay home to watch Survivor and Police Women of Cincinnati.

dude, Police Women of Cincinnati rocks.
 
If anything, I'd say Cincinnati has some of the best fans. Let's just look at the teams.

The Bengals have sucked for the past 18 years yet they kept selling out during Lewis' tenure.

The Reds had their first post season in 15 years. They haven't been to the WS since 1990.

The Bearcats football team has sucked since their existence with exception to the Bryan Kelly years and they did a pretty good job selling Nippert when before there was no interest at all.

And finally the basketball team has been pretty bad for the past 5 years. Last year they were decent and they are decent again. Given everything that is going on (bad economy, costs of attending for a family, HD tv, lack of exciting play, etc) and you can see why people aren't coming out in droves.

So people can blame the people of Cincinnati all they want but the teams they have supported have done nothing to gain their support. Cincinnati has to be one of the least successful sports towns in the last 30 years.

If you want to talk success vs. fans attending games, look no further than Cleveland as to a town that actually has sports as a priority. I cannot stand a fair-weather fan. I'm from Cleveland and I love my sports teams. We haven't won a championship since 1964! It's been 47 years but people of the city show more support for their teams than they do in Cincinnati.


The Browns have had TWO winning seasons since coming back into the league in 1999 and only one playoff berth, but Cleveland Browns stadium sells out every week. Their games aren't getting blacked-out like Bengals' games did all season long.

As for the Reds, sure, your team may not be winning, but that doesn't mean that people shouldn't show up because of it. I dare you to find more fans come out of nowhere to be staunch Reds' supporters. People that had never even cared about baseball before were suddenly attending games just so that they could say that they were fans of a divisional champ.

If you take a look at Cincinnati football's attendance at games this season, you can see a sharp downturn. It may not be as evident in the numbers (due to season ticket holders) but the stadium was dead the last three games at Nippert because the team was having a rough time so the city didn't care any more. They'll be back once the winning comes back, but it took an undefeated season before Nippert could even sell-out on a regular basis, and there are only 35000 seats there.

I see the same thing happening with basketball. Attendance won't be boosted until the team gets back to winning consistently, which is really very disappointing. As a student at UC, I hate looking up from the front row of the student section and seeing either a half-full student section, or a disinterested and uncaring one. It's so frustrating when I ask people why they aren't going to the games and their reason is "We aren't any good. I'll start going to games when they start winning again." Student tickets are free for Christ's sake.



So the TLDR summation is this. Cincinnati sports fans, as a whole mind you, are fickle and disinterested, and it's really very frustrating.
 
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If you want to talk success vs. fans attending games, look no further than Cleveland as to a town that actually has sports as a priority. I cannot stand a fair-weather fan. I'm from Cleveland and I love my sports teams. We haven't won a championship since 1964! It's been 47 years but people of the city show more support for their teams than they do in Cincinnati.


The Browns have had TWO winning seasons since coming back into the league in 1999 and only one playoff berth, but Cleveland Browns stadium sells out every week. Their aren't games didn't get blacked-out like Bengals' games did all season long.

As for the Reds, sure, your team may not be winning, but that doesn't mean that people shouldn't show up because of it. I dare you to find more fans come out of nowhere to be staunch Reds' supporters. People that had never even cared about baseball before were suddenly attending games just so that they could say that they were fans of a divisional champ.

If you take a look at Cincinnati football's attendance at games this season, you can see a sharp downturn. It may not be as evident in the numbers (due to season ticket holders) but the stadium was dead the last three games at Nippert because the team was having a rough time so the city didn't care any more. They'll be back once the winning comes back, but it took an undefeated season before Nippert could even sell-out on a regular basis, and there are only 35000 seats there.

I see the same thing happening with basketball. Attendance won't be boosted until the team gets back to winning consistently, which is really very disappointing. As a student at UC, I hate looking up from the front row of the student section and seeing either a half-full student section, or a disinterested and uncaring one. It's so frustrating when I ask people why they aren't going to the games and their reason is "We aren't any good. I'll start going to games when they start winning again." Student tickets are free for Christ's sake.



So the TLDR summation is this. Cincinnati sports fans, as a whole mind you, are fickle and disinterested, and it's really very frustrating.

Good post and I agree.
 
In all honesty, here I think the fans under Huggins feel unwanted and ridiculed to the point of resentment. In Who dey times description of those fans being "sad and pathetic", it shows what I mean. I think we as fans of the school should accept their bitterness and work towards bringing them back home instead of the "we dont need them" approach most have taken. Get the Huggins fans back and the arena will be full again IMO. A side note. I read attendance this season was down 36% from last season despite our great record. Does anyone know if that is true?

I couldn't disagree more with this. The "Huggins" fans as you call them were the ones that drew the line in the sand so to speak. I think once Mick was hired it would spell the end of the bitterness about Huggs. Cronin is a UC guy, coached here before, and had a very good track record.

What did the Huggins fans do then and continue to do to this day? Bash the program and coach at any possible opportunity whether its justified or not. That is sad and pathetic no matter what you think about what happened. And, if that bitterness still lingers after every involved party has moved on to other successes, that speaks very poorly about that individual. Why would any logical person try to placate that thought process?

We want UC fans...not Bob Huggins fans, not Mick Cronin fans but fans who show up because UC is a great place and the program is far more important than the individual who is running it or the individual who ran it six years ago. If that was the thought process, I think FTA would see better attendance. For some, it isn't and that is a damn shame.
 
If you want to talk success vs. fans attending games, look no further than Cleveland as to a town that actually has sports as a priority. I cannot stand a fair-weather fan. I'm from Cleveland and I love my sports teams. We haven't won a championship since 1964! It's been 47 years but people of the city show more support for their teams than they do in Cincinnati.


The Browns have had TWO winning seasons since coming back into the league in 1999 and only one playoff berth, but Cleveland Browns stadium sells out every week. Their games aren't getting blacked-out like Bengals' games did all season long.

As for the Reds, sure, your team may not be winning, but that doesn't mean that people shouldn't show up because of it. I dare you to find more fans come out of nowhere to be staunch Reds' supporters. People that had never even cared about baseball before were suddenly attending games just so that they could say that they were fans of a divisional champ.

If you take a look at Cincinnati football's attendance at games this season, you can see a sharp downturn. It may not be as evident in the numbers (due to season ticket holders) but the stadium was dead the last three games at Nippert because the team was having a rough time so the city didn't care any more. They'll be back once the winning comes back, but it took an undefeated season before Nippert could even sell-out on a regular basis, and there are only 35000 seats there.

I see the same thing happening with basketball. Attendance won't be boosted until the team gets back to winning consistently, which is really very disappointing. As a student at UC, I hate looking up from the front row of the student section and seeing either a half-full student section, or a disinterested and uncaring one. It's so frustrating when I ask people why they aren't going to the games and their reason is "We aren't any good. I'll start going to games when they start winning again." Student tickets are free for Christ's sake.



So the TLDR summation is this. Cincinnati sports fans, as a whole mind you, are fickle and disinterested, and it's really very frustrating.

To follow up what I said, I just went and looked at the Cavs attendance for their last home game. They drew 19975 (20276 is capacity) for a game against the Trailblazers, and this is while the team is mired in the longest losing streak in NBA history. There is no reason that Cincinnati can't draw even half of that number for their games.
 
I couldn't disagree more with this. The "Huggins" fans as you call them were the ones that drew the line in the sand so to speak. I think once Mick was hired it would spell the end of the bitterness about Huggs. Cronin is a UC guy, coached here before, and had a very good track record.

What did the Huggins fans do then and continue to do to this day? Bash the program and coach at any possible opportunity whether its justified or not. That is sad and pathetic no matter what you think about what happened. And, if that bitterness still lingers after every involved party has moved on to other successes, that speaks very poorly about that individual. Why would any logical person try to placate that thought process?

We want UC fans...not Bob Huggins fans, not Mick Cronin fans but fans who show up because UC is a great place and the program is far more important than the individual who is running it or the individual who ran it six years ago. If that was the thought process, I think FTA would see better attendance. For some, it isn't and that is a damn shame.

Agree 100%. Couldn't have said it any better.
 
^regarding Cleveland Comparison:

That is all well and good, but 1) the Browns averaged just over 66k fans last year in a 73k seat stadium and 2) there is no competition for those fans' loyalty and $. Major sports programs (as compared to Cincinnati) w/in 100 mile radius of Cleveland? The Cavs, Indians, Browns and.....thats it.
 
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^regarding Cleveland Comparison:

That is all well and good, but 1) the Browns averaged just over 66k fans last year in a 73k seat stadium and 2) there is no competition for those fans' loyalty and $. Major sports programs (as compared to Cincinnati) w/in 100 mile radius of Cleveland? The Indians and the Browns and.....thats it.

They are die hard OSU fans up there and within 100 miles or so of Columbus. Cleveland is fighting for fans too, especially during football season when a lot of them drive down to Columbus for the OSU games. Do you really think people in Cincinnati would be showing up to Cavs games if the Cavs played in Cincy and not Cleveland? No chance in hell.
 
They are die hard OSU fans up there and within 100 miles or so of Columbus. Cleveland is fighting for fans too, especially during football season when a lot of them drive down to Columbus for the OSU games. Do you really think people in Cincinnati would be showing up to Cavs games if the Cavs played in Cincy and not Cleveland? No chance in hell.

Not at all, my point was only that I dont think you can say that Cleveland fans are any better than Cincy Fans, they just have a smaller amount of options to consolidate their loyalties. And yes, using the 100 mile cut-off definitely and purposefully worked in my favor for making that argument, as Clev to Col is about 140 miles :)
 
^regarding Cleveland Comparison:

That is all well and good, but 1) the Browns averaged just over 66k fans last year in a 73k seat stadium and 2) there is no competition for those fans' loyalty and $. Major sports programs (as compared to Cincinnati) w/in 100 mile radius of Cleveland? The Cavs, Indians, Browns and.....thats it.

You can include OSU as a major sports program that competes with Cleveland as well. It may be slightly farther than 100 miles but there is a definite pull there. People from up North love OSU more than I can stand to bear.

I'll give you that Cincinnati has more competition for its sports teams (I don't really count Dayton though if you aren't counting Cleveland State, and if anything CSU is performing better than UD) but that doesn't mean that people shouldn't show up. There are also a great deal more people in a 100 mile radius of Cincinnati than there are in the same area in relation to Cleveland.
 
Not at all, my point was only that I dont think you can say that Cleveland fans are any better than Cincy Fans, they just have a smaller amount of options to consolidate their loyalties. And yes, using the 100 mile cut-off definitely and purposefully worked in my favor for making that argument, as Clev to Col is about 140 miles :)

Yeah, I saw what you were trying to do there. :D

I don't think Cleveland fans are better but they attend games better. I hate Cleveland fans, especially Browns fans. Many of them are jerks and treat fans of other teams very rudely. They do attend games though.
 
On a side note: I spent this past Saturday night in $hittsburgh indulging in unsatisfying UC BBall and very good craft beers. Its a dead tie for the fans I hate the most, between steelers and buckeyes.
 
In comparing the Bengals and Browns for how their attendance stacks up, the Bengals benefitted greatly from having a playoff team the year before. Their first four home games averaged ~65k fans. The next four games however (once their season was virtually over) resulted in an average attendance of ~56.5k, a sharp downturn. The Browns on the other hand averaged ~66k for their first four home games and ~66k for their last four. Even though the team struggles, the fan base sticks behind them.

Now I know showing up to games isn't exactly the only indicator of fandom, but it's important. To bring it back to Cincinnati and UC like this topic was originally about (sorry) until the amount of fair-weather fans in the city decrease or the diehards increase, its going to be very hard for UC to draw a a crowd unless they can win on a consistent basis, because Cincinnati is a "what have you done for me lately?" kind of town.
 
If you want to talk success vs. fans attending games, look no further than Cleveland as to a town that actually has sports as a priority. I cannot stand a fair-weather fan. I'm from Cleveland and I love my sports teams. We haven't won a championship since 1964! It's been 47 years but people of the city show more support for their teams than they do in Cincinnati.


The Browns have had TWO winning seasons since coming back into the league in 1999 and only one playoff berth, but Cleveland Browns stadium sells out every week. Their games aren't getting blacked-out like Bengals' games did all season long.

As for the Reds, sure, your team may not be winning, but that doesn't mean that people shouldn't show up because of it. I dare you to find more fans come out of nowhere to be staunch Reds' supporters. People that had never even cared about baseball before were suddenly attending games just so that they could say that they were fans of a divisional champ.

If you take a look at Cincinnati football's attendance at games this season, you can see a sharp downturn. It may not be as evident in the numbers (due to season ticket holders) but the stadium was dead the last three games at Nippert because the team was having a rough time so the city didn't care any more. They'll be back once the winning comes back, but it took an undefeated season before Nippert could even sell-out on a regular basis, and there are only 35000 seats there.

I see the same thing happening with basketball. Attendance won't be boosted until the team gets back to winning consistently, which is really very disappointing. As a student at UC, I hate looking up from the front row of the student section and seeing either a half-full student section, or a disinterested and uncaring one. It's so frustrating when I ask people why they aren't going to the games and their reason is "We aren't any good. I'll start going to games when they start winning again." Student tickets are free for Christ's sake.



So the TLDR summation is this. Cincinnati sports fans, as a whole mind you, are fickle and disinterested, and it's really very frustrating.

Seriously, Cleveland! Your right since the Browns have come back they have sold out. Go another 15 years of .500 or worse and then see if you can say the same thing. Cavaliers, wow I watched a home game last week and saw a ton of people dressed as empty seats. And then the Indians, who saw vibrant crowds of 2000 in the old stadium before Jacobs Field opened. And now the playoff run is over for them, so are the sell outs. I have been to two games up there in the last couple of years and had no problems sitting where ever I wanted. Oh, and lets not forget that Cleveland has about a 50% bigger population.
 
Indiana lost again last night, it is a good thing UC hired Mick instead of Tom Crean, not that Crean would have taken the UC if it was offered.
 
Seriously, Cleveland! Your right since the Browns have come back they have sold out. Go another 15 years of .500 or worse and then see if you can say the same thing.

I'm pretty sure if we've been this bad for 12 years and the fans still show up, then we'll probably be alright.

Cavaliers, wow I watched a home game last week and saw a ton of people dressed as empty seats.

Most teams would be lucky to have any fans at all if they hadn't won since December 18, 2010.

And then the Indians, who saw vibrant crowds of 2000 in the old stadium before Jacobs Field opened. And now the playoff run is over for them, so are the sell outs. I have been to two games up there in the last couple of years and had no problems sitting where ever I wanted.

The Indians set a major league record for consecutive sell outs from 1995-2001. The record has since been surpassed by the RedSox but it was a record nonetheless and goes to prove my point that Cleveland fans show up. They kept making the playoffs but still haven't won a WS since 1948, but the fans still hung with them. It took a disinterested ownership that is almost deadlast in payroll to turn away the fans recently. Seriously, if your biggest free-agent signing for a team that won 69 games the year before is Austin Kearns, then the ownership has officially lost any credibility toward making the team a contender.

Oh, and lets not forget that Cleveland has about a 50% bigger population.

Cleveland's population(2009): 431,639
Cincinnati's population(2009): 333,336

Not quite 50% more but still definitely more. But if we were to expand and include the populations of the cities in a 100-mile radius from downtown (as was used previously to describe the competition that Cincinnati has with competing fanbases) you would find that Cinci's population would be greatly larger than Cleveland's in that 100-mile radius. There are virtually no big cities around Cleveland with the exception of the Akron-Canton area, but that doesn't exactly compare to Dayton, Louisville, Columbus etc.

Oh, and btw, I love Cincinnati. I also love Cleveland. I was born in Cleveland but go to school at UC, and have seen the fans from each city and can honestly say that there is no comparison. I still love Cincinnati though, just not the majority of its "fans"
 
I'm pretty sure if we've been this bad for 12 years and the fans still show up, then we'll probably be alright.



Most teams would be lucky to have any fans at all if they hadn't won since December 18, 2010.

The Indians set a major league record for consecutive sell outs from 1995-2001. The record has since been surpassed by the RedSox but it was a record nonetheless and goes to prove my point that Cleveland fans show up. They kept making the playoffs but still haven't won a WS since 1948, but the fans still hung with them. It took a disinterested ownership that is almost deadlast in payroll to turn away the fans recently. Seriously, if your biggest free-agent signing for a team that won 69 games the year before is Austin Kearns, then the ownership has officially lost any credibility toward making the team a contender.



Cleveland's population(2009): 431,639
Cincinnati's population(2009): 333,336

Not quite 50% more but still definitely more. But if we were to expand and include the populations of the cities in a 100-mile radius from downtown (as was used previously to describe the competition that Cincinnati has with competing fanbases) you would find that Cinci's population would be greatly larger than Cleveland's in that 100-mile radius. There are virtually no big cities around Cleveland with the exception of the Akron-Canton area, but that doesn't exactly compare to Dayton, Louisville, Columbus etc.

Oh, and btw, I love Cincinnati. I also love Cleveland. I was born in Cleveland but go to school at UC, and have seen the fans from each city and can honestly say that there is no comparison. I still love Cincinnati though, just not the majority of its "fans"

You are right on the population, mine were older figures but the metro area size is still debatable when it comes to college sports around here, too fractured with most of the fans in Northern Kentucky being fans of Kentucky and north of Cincy being swallowed up by Ohio State and Dayton in Basketball.

I will say that Browns fans are good, but the Bengals have had no success for much of 20 years and just recently didn't sell out. Many around the country say fans here are stupid for supporting this ownership. Until last year the Reds have been just as bad since the 1970's except for a couple of blips and the World Championship of 1990.

You have some valid points but I still believe that fans are fans and they are the same in most places.
 
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