Florida

[david aka the TYZ]

yeah 2nd half he was on the wing and we were awful on offense. when he had the ball in his hands in the 1st half he single-handedly kept us in the game.


and nobody is going to have assists when we play like we did yesterday. the offense was give it to clark, evans, or cumberland and let them work solo for the possession. that gets nobody assists and its not good offense.

Yet everyone's answer is to give the ball to Broome and let him work solo and that somehow is good offense.....

Bottom line, this team just didn't execute yesterday. Clark has struggled cause D's are focused on stopping him. The rest of the team hasn't stepped up to make defenses sag off Clark. Going into the season you tell me Cumberland and Evans will get as many open looks and drives as they did yesterday and I'd like my chances to win any game on our schedule. But they aren't hitting open shots and the team as a whole has a turnover problem. While I agree Broome probably needs to be our starter, Jennifer starting isn't the reason we lost or are struggling, nor is Mick Cronin. The team as a whole has stunk the last two games. Giving Broome the ball and letting him go 1 on 5 isn't the answer and thinking he can create open looks with his ball skills is shortsighted imo. First, he hasn't shown he can do that and second, Evans, Cumberland and Clark aren't hitting open shots. So what's going to change? Yes Broome looks great when he comes off the bench and blows past the D a couple times. He's not going to do that for 40 minutes and defenses will adjust. We need Evans and Cumberland to be the players they are capable of. That frees up Clark and will make whatever pg look good running the offense.

 

[cincrulz11]

We were awful in the first half as well. We only scored 28 points.

yeah and broome had 9 of those despite not playing a lot. i think he's gonna grow on you as the season rolls along waite.

 

[cincrulz11]

Yet everyone's answer is to give the ball to Broome and let him work solo and that somehow is good offense.....

Bottom line, this team just didn't execute yesterday. Clark has struggled cause D's are focused on stopping him. The rest of the team hasn't stepped up to make defenses sag off Clark. Going into the season you tell me Cumberland and Evans will get as many open looks and drives as they did yesterday and I'd like my chances to win any game on our schedule. But they aren't hitting open shots and the team as a whole has a turnover problem. While I agree Broome probably needs to be our starter, Jennifer starting isn't the reason we lost or are struggling, nor is Mick Cronin. The team as a whole has stunk the last two games. Giving Broome the ball and letting him go 1 on 5 isn't the answer and thinking he can create open looks with his ball skills is shortsighted imo. First, he hasn't shown he can do that and second, Evans, Cumberland and Clark aren't hitting open shots. So what's going to change? Yes Broome looks great when he comes off the bench and blows past the D a couple times. He's not going to do that for 40 minutes and defenses will adjust. We need Evans and Cumberland to be the players they are capable of. That frees up Clark and will make whatever pg look good running the offense.

i dont in any way want him playing 1v5. i want to use his skill set to force defenses to slide and help to stop his penetration. this opens up corner 3s and lay ups for others. and if they dont rotate and slide to him, he gets lay ups and free throws like yesterday.



and everything else i agree with, i just posted that a bit ago. the big 4 have been underwhelming. they all have to play better and i'd say all 4 of them have under performed the last 2 games.



we have a pg that can make it difficult on defenses. the same sort of pg that gives us fits. nobody is saying we want to watch him go 1v5 for 40 minutes. we just want him to run the offense like a quick and aggressive pg can.

 

[TheLivingLegend]

People saying cane is the issue have lost there minds.

Cane is a natural scorer and should be playing 80 percent of the time.

Our half court offense stinks. It has stunk for years. Micks philosophy on half court offense stinks. There are two solutions... change it. Or run, run, run, run.

Big games, mick is terrified to push tempo. At some point he needs to realize it.

 

[FTBearcats]

This is Mick Cronin basketball. It’s the same story year after year. This is a very talented team, top to bottom. Him taking out Keith Williams after one mistake and sitting him the rest of the game is a joke. Not saying he would’ve made the difference but that kills a players confidence. Especially a playmaker like Keith. It’s almost like Cronins teams play hesitant as to not make a mistake to feel the wrath of the short man. Which can lead to sloppy basketball which was the case yesterday.

 

[WAITE HOYT 2]

yeah and broome had 9 of those despite not playing a lot. i think he's gonna grow on you as the season rolls along waite.

i like his game now. I'm just not sure he is who I want running the point. The issue I have is putting him at the point takes away from his strength rather then help him. Then I'm with many who have concerns about JJ. With each passing game I feel we really don't have the kind of PG to have the kind of season we all wanted and expected. A PG's job is to make everyone around him better and take care of the ball. Not sure we have that player on our team.

What I would do is start Evans at the point and Broome on the wing. Also think if Evans is going to be the player we want and need it may be necessary to force the ball in his hands

 

[david aka the TYZ]

i dont in any way want him playing 1v5. i want to use his skill set to force defenses to slide and help to stop his penetration. this opens up corner 3s and lay ups for others. and if they dont rotate and slide to him, he gets lay ups and free throws like yesterday.



and everything else i agree with, i just posted that a bit ago. the big 4 have been underwhelming. they all have to play better and i'd say all 4 of them have under performed the last 2 games.



we have a pg that can make it difficult on defenses. the same sort of pg that gives us fits. nobody is saying we want to watch him go 1v5 for 40 minutes. we just want him to run the offense like a quick and aggressive pg can.

I think you and others are assuming a lot in thinking Cane will produce like that. From his stats at Sacred Heart and what I have seen he is good at creating offense for himself, but not other players. On the other hand, I don't think Jenifer has excelled at either. So while I do think Broome should start, I don't think he's the type of player to dish to open players. He's small and loses the ball when trying to make a play and the defenses swarm to him. He didn't produce assists at Sacred Heart and I can pretty much assume they had guys on their roster capable of hitting open jumpers cause we've played enough low level teams that have capable and willing shooters.

 

[david aka the TYZ]

For the record I'm playing devils advocate here more than anything with Broome. I just don't think it's as simple as we have the next Chris Paul or someone on our bench and Mick Cronin is somehow too stupid to see it.

 

[juckerrules]

Washington and Evans... nine turnovers.... Game!

 

[cincrulz11]

He didn't produce assists at Sacred Heart and I can pretty much assume they had guys on their roster capable of hitting open jumpers cause we've played enough low level teams that have capable and willing shooters.

its extremely easy to look this up. his team shot 31% from 3 his sophomore year, ranked 312.

25%, 29%, 35%, 33%, 28%. those are the 3 point %'s of the top 5 3 point shooters on that team that weren't broome.


so i wouldn't make that assumption.

 

[cincrulz11]

I think you and others are assuming a lot in thinking Cane will produce like that. From his stats at Sacred Heart and what I have seen he is good at creating offense for himself, but not other players. On the other hand, I don't think Jenifer has excelled at either. So while I do think Broome should start, I don't think he's the type of player to dish to open players.

and ill keep asking. if he can't dish to open players and refuses to which seems to be the claim, why is his assistrate exactly the same as caupains was last year. it does not add up to me.

 

[david aka the TYZ]

and ill keep asking. if he can't dish to open players and refuses to which seems to be the claim, why is his assistrate exactly the same as caupains was last year. it does not add up to me.

Not sure what stats you're looking at. Broome has 24 assists and 20 TO's on the season. Jenifer has 24 assists vs. 5 TO's in six more minutes played

 

[cincrulz11]

Not sure what stats you're looking at. Broome has 24 assists and 20 TO's on the season. Jenifer has 24 assists vs. 5 TO's in six more minutes played

im looking at assist rate

Assist Rate (ARate): This is assists divided by the field goals made by the player’s teammates while he is on the court.



broomes is 24.4. jenifers is 20.4.

 

[david aka the TYZ]

If you're looking straight at assists per minutes played, which I'm assuming you have to be, I'm not sure what you're really trying to argue. Caupain was a lot of things but a distributor of the ball and creator of offense was never his strong suit. So if he's only producing as many assists per minute as Caupain did and as Jenifer is with four times as many turnovers you really need to come up with a better argument

 

[david aka the TYZ]

im looking at assist rate

Assist Rate (ARate): This is assists divided by the field goals made by the player’s teammates while he is on the court.



broomes is 24.4. jenifers is 20.4.

This is a dumb stat if he's not the one getting the assists..... which I don't think he is

 

[Alum2013]

This is a dumb stat if he's not the one getting the assists..... which I don't think he is

But it indicates he's making the offense move better and there's more ball movement. If he drives into the lane, kicks it out to Evans when they crash down, Evans swings it to someone open because a different defender had to move on to him, and that player makes the shot it's not an assist for Broome but he made the play. Broome has a vastly superior ability to get into the lane compared to Jennifer.

 

[david aka the TYZ]

Tbh, I was arguing devils advocate without looking at stats and going off the famous "eye test". But pointing out stats where he and Jenifer have played essentially the same minutes and have the same # of assists and Broome has four times as many TO's as Jenifer, it makes the argument for Jenifer to start very easy and why Cronin continues to do it.

 

[waterhead]

Lots of problems to address...I just hope we can.

21 turnovers is beyond bad for us. Each of the last two teams we played was aware that Cronin loves Clark (I do to)...but when that is being taken away we need to move to plan B. It's hard to advertise what your plan is and then watch the opponent take it away. I have never seen Gary miss so many bunnies in my life...but most of them were not from a play call. Many of them were just 2nd chance missed opportunities. Gary is far from the problem but forcing it to Gary might be. We have a well rounded team so we can't get caught up in forcing certain players the ball right now. I thought getting it to Gary a lot might be a good idea...but the other team is already aware of it so...

Washington is in struggle mode. He doesn't know what a good shot or decision looks like anymore. I don't worry too much about Gary, Jacob and Jarron over time. Yes they can each have a bad game...but we will get good production from them over time.

Cane looked really awesome getting to the bucket for layups with a couple of and 1's to boot. We need that type of player in the game. He will get assists but he was doing pretty well getting to the bucket so who cares.

Where was Moore? WTF? Williams came in for about one stupid play and was pulled (which he should have been). How can you keep him in the game with a first play like that? Worried about the center spot right now too.

We just played an awful game. It seemed like every other possession was going to end in us not getting off a good shot between TO's and poor decisions...oh and WAY too many open shots and bunnies getting missed. WE had open 3 looks but missed. We missed so many bunnies.

I am not sure we can chalk this up to "per usual" kind of thing. Gary usually makes his bunnies and I am not sure why Cumberland started bricking 3's or why Evans was in TO mode. Fixing any of those things would have won us the game. We could have won that game by 10+...but we just killed ourselves time after time. I don't see that as a coaching problem...the players just kind of imploded in this one.

 

[cincrulz11]

0 points, 0 rebounds, 0 steals, 0 blocks, 1 assist, 1 to.



15 points, 3 rebounds, 1 steal, 1 block, 0 assists, 2 to.

 

[Queens_NYC]

Eye test indicates that Jenifer is physically incapable of competing and leading an efficient offense against elite teams. Unless we're working with a Devan Downey/Erving Walker type-talent, I'd rather we don't recruit sub-6 foot point guards going forward.