Florida

[david aka the TYZ]

But it indicates he's making the offense move better and there's more ball movement. If he drives into the lane, kicks it out to Evans when they crash down, Evans swings it to someone open because a different defender had to move on to him, and that player makes the shot it's not an assist for Broome but he made the play. Broome has a vastly superior ability to get into the lane compared to Jennifer.

Honestly Jenifer can dribble penetrate if he wants. He made a couple nasty plays vs. Savannah State. It's not the offense Mick runs. That's the point I think people fail to see. Cronin doesn't want his pg dribbling too much and taking on the defense by himself. Now we can argue Micks offense all day and I think that's fair, but Mick simply isn't going to run that style of offense.

 

[cincrulz11]

Honestly Jenifer can dribble penetrate if he wants. He made a couple nasty plays vs. Savannah State. It's not the offense Mick runs. That's the point I think people fail to see. Cronin doesn't want his pg dribbling too much and taking on the defense by himself. Now we can argue Micks offense all day and I think that's fair, but Mick simply isn't going to run that style of offense.

wrong wrong wrong. he cannot penetrate off the dribble with a defender in his face. he has never done this. he doesn't have the ability to do it. he can make some nice looking plays with open court vs awful teams, but he's been able to do that since day 1 here.

 

[cincrulz11]

This is a dumb stat if he's not the one getting the assists..... which I don't think he is

well thats what the stat is, so uhh he is the one getting them

 

[david aka the TYZ]

0 points, 0 rebounds, 0 steals, 0 blocks, 1 assist, 1 to.



15 points, 3 rebounds, 1 steal, 1 block, 0 assists, 2 to.

And we lost.....

I said at start of the year that Broome is clearly the better player, I said it again last week and I said today Broome should start. But let's be clear, I'm worried about winning games and I'm worried about who makes the team better. Unfortunately, Jenifer doesn't do much in that department. He's effective in an uptempo style. I'd rather have him throwing oops and making no look passes than Broome any day of the week. Unfortunately, that opportunity presents itself maybe once a game so that's a moot point. Broome scored these last two games cause no one else was and we needed him to. Great. We all know he's a scorer. But he's not good enough to carry our team. We need Evans and Cumberland to step up and Washington to get his head out of his ass. At the end of the day this team should be scoring 80 points a game with no problem and I don't care how the points break down when that happens.

 

[david aka the TYZ]

well thats what the stat is, so uhh he is the one getting them

He has the same # of assists as Jenifer and four times as many TO's. Address that stat. You cherry picked your stat, I cherry picked mine.....

 

[david aka the TYZ]

wrong wrong wrong. he cannot penetrate off the dribble with a defender in his face. he has never done this. he doesn't have the ability to do it. he can make some nice looking plays with open court vs awful teams, but he's been able to do that since day 1 here.

Sure he can. He's smart enough not to. Trying to beat a defender in your face off the dribble is a recipe for disaster. It's not team offense and usually leads to bad shots, blocked shots and turnovers. This isn't the playground nor the NBA. I've seen Broome get stuffed and in trouble plenty trying to dribble penetrate.

 

[cincrulz11]

He has the same # of assists as Jenifer and four times as many TO's. Address that stat. You cherry picked your stat, I cherry picked mine.....

i haven't cherry picked anything. broomes turnover rate continues to go down. if we wanna hammer him for 6 vs an awful savannah st team and 5 against an awful richmond team in blowouts then have at it i guess.



but the talk was never about turnovers until you shifted it there. people keep saying broome doesn't pass the ball. i only provided proof that he does.



and i really dont see what all the fighting is about anyway. everybody recognizes broome > jenifer. broome is absolutely capable of getting his teammates involved and scoring for himself.

 

[cincrulz11]

Sure he can. He's smart enough not to. Trying to beat a defender in your face off the dribble is a recipe for disaster. It's not team offense and usually leads to bad shots, blocked shots and turnovers. This isn't the playground nor the NBA. I've seen Broome get stuffed and in trouble plenty trying to dribble penetrate.

goodness. ok ok ok. have a nice day.




but i will suggest you watch other college teams with good pg play. let me know what they do.

 

[david aka the TYZ]

i haven't cherry picked anything. broomes turnover rate continues to go down. if we wanna hammer him for 6 vs an awful savannah st team and 5 against an awful richmond team in blowouts then have at it i guess.



but the talk was never about turnovers until you shifted it there. people keep saying broome doesn't pass the ball. i only provided proof that he does.



and i really dont see what all the fighting is about anyway. everybody recognizes broome > jenifer. broome is absolutely capable of getting his teammates involved and scoring for himself.

Like I said, mostly playing devils advocate on my part....

But TO's are a very big deal and the exact reason why Broome comes off the bench. TO's are the clear cut reason we lost yesterday. And while, no it wasn't Broome yesterday turning the ball over, protecting the ball is Mick's #1 priority. Broome will eventually start again I have to believe, but Mick is using that starting spot to teach him to not be selfish and play the offense he wants to play. Now again, that can and should and will be an argument on its own on this board, but I'm just arguing why Jenifer does start and honestly just giving the perspective I think Mick takes. I think we can all agree though that if the other four starters can play like they are capable of then Broome doesn't have to be the one taking the shots. Cronin knows this and I think that's why he likes him off the bench and playing with the second team with guys on the floor that aren't capable scorers.

 

[WAITE HOYT 2]

And we lost.....

I said at start of the year that Broome is clearly the better player, I said it again last week and I said today Broome should start. But let's be clear, I'm worried about winning games and I'm worried about who makes the team better. Unfortunately, Jenifer doesn't do much in that department. He's effective in an uptempo style. I'd rather have him throwing oops and making no look passes than Broome any day of the week. Unfortunately, that opportunity presents itself maybe once a game so that's a moot point. Broome scored these last two games cause no one else was and we needed him to. Great. We all know he's a scorer. But he's not good enough to carry our team. We need Evans and Cumberland to step up and Washington to get his head out of his ass. At the end of the day this team should be scoring 80 points a game with no problem and I don't care how the points break down when that happens.

It should also be noted that many of Broome minutes came at the wing. Especially in the second half. I would put Evans at the PG and Broome at the wing. I would also go heavy at the 5 with defense. Washington would come off the bench.

 

[cincrulz11]

It should also be noted that many of Broome minutes came at the wing. Especially in the second half. I would put Evans at the PG and Broome at the wing. I would also go heavy at the 5 with defense. Washington would come off the bench.

waite you're gonna have to explain your thought process on moving a SG to PG and a PG to SG. why do you think evans will succeed as a primary ball handler? his turnover rate is really bad for a non-primary ball handler.

 

[WAITE HOYT 2]

waite you're gonna have to explain your thought process on moving a SG to PG and a PG to SG. why do you think evans will succeed as a primary ball handler? his turnover rate is really bad for a non-primary ball handler.

He had played their in high school. His game to me just translate more into being a facilitator. His size would provide problems for opposing point guards. Broome is a score first distribute second point guard. Who also has had problems taking care of the ball. I think both would be more comfortable at their new roles. Mick has also played Evans at the point this year already. Prior to the last game Evans had not had a big turn over issue. I think both players would benefit from the move.

 

[WAITE HOYT 2]

I would also bring Washington off the bench . He plays very little defense and has never seen a shot he didn't like.

I would also make it clear to Jaron that his minutes could be in jeopardy if he continues to play as ineffective as he has been.

 

[jacobkdoyle]

its extremely easy to look this up. his team shot 31% from 3 his sophomore year, ranked 312.

25%, 29%, 35%, 33%, 28%. those are the 3 point %'s of the top 5 3 point shooters on that team that weren't broome.


so i wouldn't make that assumption.

Lol. I was just about to post this!

 

[cincyguy13]

A perfect example of a team getting it together is UConn in their last two championship seasons they had 8 losses in both regular season schedules but got hot and won two national championships.

If we are banking on that, we are in trouble

 

[jacobkdoyle]

For the record I'm playing devils advocate here more than anything with Broome. I just don't think it's as simple as we have the next Chris Paul or someone on our bench and Mick Cronin is somehow too stupid to see it.

It's not that he's too stupid to see it (...or that we have Chris Paul), it's that there's a checklist that is an absolute must to play PG for Cronin. Broome doesn't meet that the same way Jenifer does bc he makes careless plays at times. It just always confuses me though when we recruit certain types of players then coach them out of what they do and into something that doesn't fit them.

 

[jacobkdoyle]

But it indicates he's making the offense move better and there's more ball movement. If he drives into the lane, kicks it out to Evans when they crash down, Evans swings it to someone open because a different defender had to move on to him, and that player makes the shot it's not an assist for Broome but he made the play. Broome has a vastly superior ability to get into the lane compared to Jennifer.

I know some teams track assist rate, and also single out screen assists, passes that lead to FTs, and hockey assists.

 

[WAITE HOYT 2]

It's not that he's too stupid to see it (...or that we have Chris Paul), it's that there's a checklist that is an absolute must to play PG for Cronin. Broome doesn't meet that the same way Jenifer does bc he makes careless plays at times. It just always confuses me though when we recruit certain types of players then coach them out of what they do and into something that doesn't fit them.

May be a bit early to put Broome in that catagory. Broome is a talent it may just not be at the PG. spot.

 

[cincyguy13]

I don’t understand the people saying everything is fine. I get it, no one is going undefeated. We will lose games. It happens. I’ve always been a mick Guy, but what with the track record of the last 12 years thinks we will turn this around and be an elite team this year? We have played 2 teams with a pulse, got killed by one, and played terrible the other. It’s not like we have a track record of being an elite team, so we can not expect to revert back to that. We have been a boderline top 25 team for the last 7-8 years. Is that what we want? How can you watch this year after year and not at least starting to ask questions about the program?

 

[WAITE HOYT 2]

I don’t understand the people saying everything is fine. I get it, no one is going undefeated. We will lose games. It happens. I’ve always been a mick Guy, but what with the track record of the last 12 years thinks we will turn this around and be an elite team this year? We have played 2 teams with a pulse, got killed by one, and played terrible the other. It’s not like we have a track record of being an elite team, so we can not expect to revert back to that. We have been a boderline top 25 team for the last 7-8 years. Is that what we want? How can you watch this year after year and not at least starting to ask questions about the program?

Cincy the big difference this year is we have a new PG. TC ran the point for 4 years. Before that it was Cash. We are running a different style with different ball Handler. We lost our backcourt of 4 years. I think many thought that would be easy to overcome. Hasn't worked out that way. We turned it over 21 times yesterday and without a missed foul call could have won that game. It certainly is possible to get things fixed and turned around.