Jimmy V Classic

[Patrick Bateman]

Percentages can be misleading in that the shot you are taking can have an adverse effect on your percentage. Last year SK shot a ton of shots last year that were contested, far behind the 3 point line, and at the end of the shot clock. I dont think his percentage is an indictment of his shooting ability. Im not arguing one way or another on KJ im just saying you have to look at more than shooting percentage to determine if a player is a good shooter.

I understand what you are saying. I don't know that I agree with it. I see it like looking on the back of a baseball card and that is the production that you will get out of that player. SK may have taken some shots under duress but he also takes some wide open shots, he may also be open and decide to pass, so things even out in the end. It is like taking out at-bats for a baseball player for swinging at tough pitches out of the strike zone. You have to look at it as a whole.

By FT%, yes SK is a good shooter, but in game situations is he a good shooter, I say average.

 

[Basketball.com]

Did Rubles shooting improve? He just doesn't shoot 3's anymore. What about Shaq, has his shooting improved? Sanders? Quicker release, better percentage, any improvement? So how is KJ different. Also, a poster mentioned that he shot 23% last year as a senior and 34% as a junior. What makes you believe that he will turn into a good shooter? Everyone says we should recruit a shooter but then say KJ is a good shooter, which numbers reflect otherwise and the trend is that shooters at UC don't really improve.

How are the percentages misleading? He is shooting worse than Rubles did from 3 last year. People on here have seen enough of this season to say it is a lost cause, so how are these numbers any different? Besides, nobody has really improved as a shooter in their time here, and yes that includes SK.

Been reading your pervious post, your not a big fan of KJ anyway, you might be a parent. He's is a freshman with a lot of potential, so when he changes the game up I'm gone call you out on it.

 

[Patrick Bateman]

Shooting as a whole is down in D1 basketball but it seems like UC can't land anybody who can shoot consistently. A guy that comes off the bench or a starter.

Thomas is a good example. If he's put even a small percent of arc on his shot his percentage would go up. Mick has talked about Thomas and his line drive shot several times. I don't believe it isn't getting addressed, I just believe the player in this instance is failing to make the adjustment.

KJ, Rubles,Sanders are consistent from 3, at missing.

If Thomas is failing to make adjustment, I would like to see him taken out of the starting lineup. Even Sanders had maybe one of his best games against Pitt with 8 rebounds and some nice putbacks.

 

[Patrick Bateman]

Been reading your pervious post, your not a big fan of KJ anyway, you might be a parent. He's is a freshman with a lot of potential, so when he changes the game up I'm gone call you out on it.

Incorrect, wrong on both accounts. I am a big KJ fan, I see that he has a lot of potential, that is why I want him to be more efficient. I root for UC, so I root for Cronin and everyone on the team. I am not a parent either.

I see many positives in his game which I put in my posts so not sure what you are reading. I am saying that he is 1-15 from three. That is basically 14 turnovers. That is 6% from the field. He shot 23% his sr year. He needs to learn like Rubles did, don't shoot the 3. They leave you open, wide wide open for a reason. Pitt left Rubles open twice at the end of the game and he took two terrible shots. He and KJ need to learn to do what they are good at, go to the hole and dish, get to the line, but don't shoot jumpers.

 

[xlax]

Besides, nobody has really improved as a shooter in their time here, and yes that includes SK.

Deonta Vaughn:

Frosh year: 29%
Senior year: 34%

Cashmere Wright:

Frosh year: 25%
Senior year: 36%

Jaquon Parker:

Frosh year: 36%
Senior year: 40%

Rashad Bishop:

Frosh year: 29%
Senior year: 37%

Larry Davis:

Frosh year: 30%
Senior year: 34%

There are 5 guys who got better shooting the three from when they came in to when they left.

 

[New people]

That's the problem, tell the coach that, he's has them all playing out of position and character.

 

[New people]

Incorrect, wrong on both accounts. I am a big KJ fan, I see that he has a lot of potential, that is why I want him to be more efficient. I root for UC, so I root for Cronin and everyone on the team. I am not a parent either.

I see many positives in his game which I put in my posts so not sure what you are reading. I am saying that he is 1-15 from three. That is basically 14 turnovers. That is 6% from the field. He shot 23% his sr year. He needs to learn like Rubles did, don't shoot the 3. They leave you open, wide wide open for a reason. Pitt left Rubles open twice at the end of the game and he took two terrible shots. He and KJ need to learn to do what they are good at, go to the hole and dish, get to the line, but don't shoot jumpers.

That's the problem, tell the coach that, he has them all playing out of position and character. I don't think KJ enjoys sitting on the wing, the offense is wack. Use the player to where they are at there best, is what good coaches do, only Cincinnati does the opposite. I see why hometown kids choose not to play at UC.

 

[L-T]

Incorrect, wrong on both accounts. I am a big KJ fan, I see that he has a lot of potential, that is why I want him to be more efficient. I root for UC, so I root for Cronin and everyone on the team. I am not a parent either.

I see many positives in his game which I put in my posts so not sure what you are reading. I am saying that he is 1-15 from three. That is basically 14 turnovers. That is 6% from the field. He shot 23% his sr year. He needs to learn like Rubles did, don't shoot the 3. They leave you open, wide wide open for a reason. Pitt left Rubles open twice at the end of the game and he took two terrible shots. He and KJ need to learn to do what they are good at, go to the hole and dish, get to the line, but don't shoot jumpers.

PB, I know what you're saying and I agree with a lot of it. I would still like to see him shoot it, but be smart enough to shut it down when it's not going in. In Rubles case, there's no doubt that he should never take another one. I've been going to games for a long time and one thing I can say, in general, is that many guys I've seen come in as freshmen, were horrendous shooters, but miraculously, by their junior or senior year, they become pretty good, and in some cases, a really good shooter. KJ is a freshman and he's still developing. I like to focus on his form more than his results. His shooting form is pretty solid, so I would like to see him keep shooting it...within reason. He seems to have a lot of self confidence and I don't want to mess with that. We must eventually get more guys than SK to hit shots so the inside opens up a little

 

[Patrick Bateman]

Deonta Vaughn:

Frosh year: 29%
Senior year: 34%

Cashmere Wright:

Frosh year: 25%
Senior year: 36%

Jaquon Parker:

Frosh year: 36%
Senior year: 40%

Rashad Bishop:

Frosh year: 29%
Senior year: 37%

Larry Davis:

Frosh year: 30%
Senior year: 34%

There are 5 guys who got better shooting the three from when they came in to when they left.

Thanks for the info. Though many aren't huge jumps and nobody shot over 40%. Parker's is kind of misleading b/c his FT% was terrible his sr year. Cash, 25% as a Frosh, can't get much worse than that, only way to go is up.

 

[Patrick Bateman]

PB, I know what you're saying and I agree with a lot of it. I would still like to see him shoot it, but be smart enough to shut it down when it's not going in. In Rubles case, there's no doubt that he should never take another one. I've been going to games for a long time and one thing I can say, in general, is that many guys I've seen come in as freshmen, were horrendous shooters, but miraculously, by their junior or senior year, they become pretty good, and in some cases, a really good shooter. KJ is a freshman and he's still developing. I like to focus on his form more than his results. His shooting form is pretty solid, so I would like to see him keep shooting it...within reason. He seems to have a lot of self confidence and I don't want to mess with that. We must eventually get more guys than SK to hit shots so the inside opens up a little

Agree, if shot is not falling, don't stand there and chuck up more 3's, pump fake drive to hole, shoot/dish/get fouled. That is way more efficient than shooting 1-15 from deep. Even if he drives and turns the ball over, that is the same as a missed 3 and no offensive rebound. He has a good IQ but loves to shoot from deep.

 

[L-T]

Agree, if shot is not falling, don't stand there and chuck up more 3's, pump fake drive to hole, shoot/dish/get fouled. That is way more efficient than shooting 1-15 from deep. Even if he drives and turns the ball over, that is the same as a missed 3 and no offensive rebound. He has a good IQ but loves to shoot from deep.

He has actually hit 3 threes now, so his recent percentage is probably much better than the 1 for 15. He's improving.

 

[WAITE HOYT 2]

KJ is far from my biggest concern heading into next year. Think he is going to be a fine player. Smart,tough,quick and a hard worker. His shot will improve. My concern is how do we replace the inside guys. I would give my Kingdom for one legitimate back to the basket scorer and a deadly outside shooter that he could play a two man game with. Anyone have a guess on what our shooting percentage would look like if we had a legitimate big man to throw the ball into that requiered a little help defense on. Look at Rubles, if he had a 10 to 12ft shot he coul hit teams would not be able to play off him. Instead they dare him to shot and cut off his ability to drive by backing off him. Sk and the guards would get many more looks.

 

[Patrick Bateman]

He has actually hit 3 threes now, so his recent percentage is probably much better than the 1 for 15. He's improving.

Not according to Gobearcats.com
http://www.gobearcats.com/sports/m-baskbl/stats/2013-2014/plyr_25.html

On CBS it says he is 3-19 for 16%.

http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/players/playerpage/2103960/kevin-johnson

He is 3-8 in the last 4 games which is improvement considering we have been playing better caliber teams. The four games before that he was 0-8 and started the season 0-11 and a number of them not evern close, possibly because he is pressing. Improvement is a generous word. When you are shooting 6% there really is only one way to go.

He has only 2 FT attempts on the season. That says that he is standing shooting 3's or getting the ball by the bucket for easy bunnies or dunks. He needs to pump fake or drive then dish/get fouled/take to hole.

People on here say Shaq has a horrible shot. He is 3-6 from deep
Ge, who people say doesn't have a good shot from deep 8-26=30%
Sanders 7-23=30%
Caupain 6-14=43%

 

[JumpinJack5]

I was sarcastically asking the question. Nothing Guyn has ever done at UC suggests he has a nice touch from the outside. Not sure where people come up with this stuff. Reminds me of the argument I had where someone swore that Dion Dixon was a good oustide shooter.

Speaking of Dixon, KJ reminds me a little bit of him as far as shooting goes. Both are not consistently good shooters, but they can get hot every once in a while. KJ is a very streaky shooter, but the rest of his game is far more polished than Dixon's was at this point in his career.

 

[TheLongHaul]

Speaking of Dixon, KJ reminds me a little bit of him as far as shooting goes. Both are not consistently good shooters, but they can get hot every once in a while. KJ is a very streaky shooter, but the rest of his game is far more polished than Dixon's was at this point in his career.

The worst thing that would happen with Dixon is when he'd make his first three. That meant an unlimited leash for the rest of the game.

 

[Patrick Bateman]

The worst thing that would happen with Dixon is when he'd make his first three. That meant an unlimited leash for the rest of the game.

Dixon shot 30% from 3 his frosh year. KJ is shooting at half that clip currently.

 

[TheLongHaul]

Dixon shot 30% from 3 his frosh year. KJ is shooting at half that clip currently.

And?

 

[L-T]

KJ is far from my biggest concern heading into next year. Think he is going to be a fine player. Smart,tough,quick and a hard worker. His shot will improve. My concern is how do we replace the inside guys. I would give my Kingdom for one legitimate back to the basket scorer and a deadly outside shooter that he could play a two man game with. Anyone have a guess on what our shooting percentage would look like if we had a legitimate big man to throw the ball into that requiered a little help defense on. Look at Rubles, if he had a 10 to 12ft shot he coul hit teams would not be able to play off him. Instead they dare him to shot and cut off his ability to drive by backing off him. Sk and the guards would get many more looks.

Yeah, most, including myself, are focusing on shooting. But, you make a good point. The inside game is an issue, and has been for awhile. We definitely need good balance on the roster. This year the roster is as much out of balance as its ever been. If we had the inside-out game, it might give our shooters a little more room to get a better shot off. I agree

 

[Patrick Bateman]

And?

If Dixon was not a good shooter
If Ge is not a good shooter
Shaq, Sanders etc....

They are all at least 2X the shooter KJ is currently

 

[L-T]

Not according to Gobearcats.com
http://www.gobearcats.com/sports/m-baskbl/stats/2013-2014/plyr_25.html

On CBS it says he is 3-19 for 16%.

http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/players/playerpage/2103960/kevin-johnson

He is 3-8 in the last 4 games which is improvement considering we have been playing better caliber teams. The four games before that he was 0-8 and started the season 0-11 and a number of them not evern close, possibly because he is pressing. Improvement is a generous word. When you are shooting 6% there really is only one way to go.

He has only 2 FT attempts on the season. That says that he is standing shooting 3's or getting the ball by the bucket for easy bunnies or dunks. He needs to pump fake or drive then dish/get fouled/take to hole.

People on here say Shaq has a horrible shot. He is 3-6 from deep
Ge, who people say doesn't have a good shot from deep 8-26=30%
Sanders 7-23=30%
Caupain 6-14=43%

One of our all-time great players had a flat shot just like Shaq. Many in here probably didn't see him play. It was Lloyd Batts. Amazing shooter and no arc on his shots at all. If Shaq has time to get his feet set and be on balance, I think he probably would shoot a decent percentage. But he seems to always be on the move and creating his shot, many times not on balance and with his feet set. Shaq does have a horrible shot, but he's more accurate than most on this roster.