Mick Cronin has unruptured aneurysm (Will not coach)

[jacobkdoyle]

My hope is that Mick's time away gives him perspective he may not get when working from the inside out. He needs to adjust his recruiting philosophy and incorporate offensive players into his system. I understand defense and rebounding are constants but you have to score to win.

I disagree Jeff. It isn't the players that are the problem. It's the system itself. Look how we played with Cobb, Morman, Shaq, Ellis and Clark. We actually got up and down the floor. Then when Sanders and KJ are in with Caupain at point, we walk it up the floor and everything grinds to a halt. Also, look at what happens when we play man defense vs zone. The kids are fine. More than fine. We just aren't using them the right way so they can flourish.

 

[TheLongHaul]

I disagree Jeff. It isn't the players that are the problem. It's the system itself. Look how we played with Cobb, Morman, Shaq, Ellis and Clark. We actually got up and down the floor. Then when Sanders and KJ are in with Caupain at point, we walk it up the floor and everything grinds to a halt. Also, look at what happens when we play man defense vs zone. The kids are fine. More than fine. We just aren't using them the right way so they can flourish.

I agree. If you are going to recruit tall athletic players that aren't good shooters or passers, your philosophy better not be to walk it up the court and rely on a half-court offense.

 

[WAITE HOYT 2]

I disagree Jeff. It isn't the players that are the problem. It's the system itself. Look how we played with Cobb, Morman, Shaq, Ellis and Clark. We actually got up and down the floor. Then when Sanders and KJ are in with Caupain at point, we walk it up the floor and everything grinds to a halt. Also, look at what happens when we play man defense vs zone. The kids are fine. More than fine. We just aren't using them the right way so they can flourish.

look I perfer to play a uptempo pressure game just like everyone else but to say we lost becasue we didn't push the ball is not right. We lost because in the first half we could not guard a folding chair and Ellis was settling for 6-7ft fall aways instead of using his athletism to either draw a foul or go to the hoop. In the second half he looked like the player who played against Tulane. We didn't need to push the ball up the floor. We out scored them 42-16 in the paint. We were killing them and getting way better shots then they were. We made Dee Davis look like Curry in this game. When he made the game winning 3 X set a screen for him at the 3 Pt line and our defender went under the screen. it was riihg t in front of my seat and I was screaming. A guy as hot as that you can not go under the screen.

 

[JackBauer151]

I disagree Jeff. It isn't the players that are the problem. It's the system itself. Look how we played with Cobb, Morman, Shaq, Ellis and Clark. We actually got up and down the floor. Then when Sanders and KJ are in with Caupain at point, we walk it up the floor and everything grinds to a halt. Also, look at what happens when we play man defense vs zone. The kids are fine. More than fine. We just aren't using them the right way so they can flourish.

I think both have to improve. Gary Clark seems to be an absolute steal and I still think Caupain is going to be a big time player as an upperclassman but we need more dynamic scoring on the wings. Morman is a nice piece. KJ has been an absolute disappointment. Im praying Evans is the answer. Mick has to surround Gary and Troy with better talent. I think we are in good with Cumberland which would be a damn good start. The thing that drives me crazy about our system is that we dont run when we get the rebound or even after a made shot. Mick says we want to play uptempo. He tells them to run when they get the ball. BUT THEY DONT DO IT MICK!!! I watched Carolina/Duke last night and Carolina gets the ball and goes. How are you not getting your kids to be consistent at this. You dont have shooters then you have to get more easy baskets. RUN!!!!! Recruiting has to get better and the system needs to be tweaked. Also I like the zone as a weapon and not a principle. I thought we proved last night we can play suffocating man to man. Use the zone when it's called for. Sorry for the rant.

 

[jacobkdoyle]

look I perfer to play a uptempo pressure game just like everyone else but to say we lost becasue we didn't push the ball is not right. We lost because in the first half we could not guard a folding chair and Ellis was settling for 6-7ft fall aways instead of using his athletism to either draw a foul or go to the hoop. In the second half he looked like the player who played against Tulane. We didn't need to push the ball up the floor. We out scored them 42-16 in the paint. We were killing them and getting way better shots then they were. We made Dee Davis look like Curry in this game. When he made the game winning 3 X set a screen for him at the 3 Pt line and our defender went under the screen. it was riihg t in front of my seat and I was screaming. A guy as hot as that you can not go under the screen.

Watch every possession (especially 1st half) where we slowly walked it up the floor with KJ and Sanders in the game. That style yields us very few points.

I agree on the Dee Davis being Steph Curry though lol.

 

[jacobkdoyle]

I think both have to improve. Gary Clark seems to be an absolute steal and I still think Caupain is going to be a big time player as an upperclassman but we need more dynamic scoring on the wings. Morman is a nice piece. KJ has been an absolute disappointment. Im praying Evans is the answer. Mick has to surround Gary and Troy with better talent. I think we are in good with Cumberland which would be a damn good start. The thing that drives me crazy about our system is that we dont run when we get the rebound or even after a made shot. Mick says we want to play uptempo. He tells them to run when they get the ball. BUT THEY DONT DO IT MICK!!! I watched Carolina/Duke last night and Carolina gets the ball and goes. How are you not getting your kids to be consistent at this. You dont have shooters then you have to get more easy baskets. RUN!!!!! Recruiting has to get better and the system needs to be tweaked. Also I like the zone as a weapon and not a principle. I thought we proved last night we can play suffocating man to man. Use the zone when it's called for. Sorry for the rant.

No need to apologize for any of that. You're spot on imo.

 

[TheLongHaul]

look I perfer to play a uptempo pressure game just like everyone else but to say we lost becasue we didn't push the ball is not right. We lost because in the first half we could not guard a folding chair and Ellis was settling for 6-7ft fall aways instead of using his athletism to either draw a foul or go to the hoop. In the second half he looked like the player who played against Tulane. We didn't need to push the ball up the floor. We out scored them 42-16 in the paint. We were killing them and getting way better shots then they were. We made Dee Davis look like Curry in this game. When he made the game winning 3 X set a screen for him at the 3 Pt line and our defender went under the screen. it was riihg t in front of my seat and I was screaming. A guy as hot as that you can not go under the screen.

Their first half defense was bad, and that's mainly on Coach Davis. The second half defense was tremendous. They didn't lose because they allowed one guy a decent, but tough 3 point shot. There are going to be times when players get open. They held Xavier to 17 points under their average. Prior to Davis' 3, I don't think Xavier made a field goal for over 5 minutes (may have been more). UC has not lost this year when they've scored 60 points. Think about that for a moment. Defense is not the issue.

 

[Bearcat04]

Their first half defense was bad, and that's mainly on Coach Davis. The second half defense was tremendous. They didn't lose because they allowed one guy a decent, but tough 3 point shot. There are going to be times when players get open. They held Xavier to 17 points under their average. Prior to Davis' 3, I don't think Xavier made a field goal for over 5 minutes (may have been more). UC has not lost this year when they've scored 60 points. Think about that for a moment. Defense is not the issue.

Had won something like 40 straight games with better than 1.00 PPP, which they accomplished again last night. Biggest difference in the game was a terrible shooter making 5-5 from 3. Also, FT's once again played a huge role in a close loss. I'm starting to think I'll remember Sanders' senior year for continually front-rimming FT's in the bonus.

 

[cincrulz11]

look I perfer to play a uptempo pressure game just like everyone else but to say we lost becasue we didn't push the ball is not right. We lost because in the first half we could not guard a folding chair and Ellis was settling for 6-7ft fall aways instead of using his athletism to either draw a foul or go to the hoop. In the second half he looked like the player who played against Tulane. We didn't need to push the ball up the floor. We out scored them 42-16 in the paint. We were killing them and getting way better shots then they were. We made Dee Davis look like Curry in this game. When he made the game winning 3 X set a screen for him at the 3 Pt line and our defender went under the screen. it was riihg t in front of my seat and I was screaming. A guy as hot as that you can not go under the screen.

A voice of freaking reason. Tempo is not why we lost last night nor is it the reason we have been terrible lately.

 

[TheLongHaul]

A voice of freaking reason. Tempo is not why we lost last night nor is it the reason we have been terrible lately.

It's a reason they haven't been good this year. The entire year. I said this early in the year when they were squeaking by the cupcakes and it's no difference now.

 

[jacobkdoyle]

A voice of freaking reason. Tempo is not why we lost last night nor is it the reason we have been terrible lately.

We've given up 70 points 1 time this season and we have 9 losses.

 

[cincrulz11]

It's a reason they haven't been good this year. The entire year. I said this early in the year when they were squeaking by the cupcakes and it's no difference now.

The reason they aren't very good is because they aren't very good. They turn the ball over a ton, they don't shoot well even when they get good shots, they give up a ton of offensive rebounds. They have huge gaping holes at the 2 and the 3.



All of these would still be problems if we tried to play at a faster pace. The games might not be so boring to watch, but there is no guarantee the product would be any better or even as "good".

 

[TheLongHaul]

The reason they aren't very good is because they aren't very good. They turn the ball over a ton, they don't shoot well even when they get good shots, they give up a ton of offensive rebounds. They have huge gaping holes at the 2 and the 3.



All of these would still be problems if we tried to play at a faster pace. The games might not be so boring to watch, but there is no guarantee the product would be any better or even as "good".

Well finally, we got to the bottom of it.

They didn't turn the ball over last night, shot at a very good rate, and only gave up 4 offensive rebounds....and lost.

 

[cincrulz11]

Well finally, we got to the bottom of it.

They didn't turn the ball over last night, shot at a very good rate, and only gave up 4 offensive rebounds....and lost.

And lost because they were 4-16 from 3 vs 10-17 and made 3 fts compared to 9.



edit: Also the team is exactly where most thought it would be. Fighting to get to the tournament. Everybody knew it would like this and that was even before Mick went out. I don't understand all the outrage.

 

[Eternal E]

Well finally, we got to the bottom of it.

They didn't turn the ball over last night, shot at a very good rate, and only gave up 4 offensive rebounds....and lost.

The other team, who has been shooting at around 29% on three in conference play, shot 10-17. A guy that was 18% in conference play, was 5-5. He had only made 5 three's in the year 2015. That is why they lost.

 

[TheLongHaul]

The other team, who has been shooting at around 29% on three in conference play, shot 10-17. A guy that was 18% in conference play, was 5-5. He had only made 5 three's in the year 2015. That is why they lost.

i.e., one team was better on offense than the other. It wasn't because of those things Waite says they need to get back to doing. They played D, rebounded, didn't turn it over and still lost.

 

[WAITE HOYT 2]

Their first half defense was bad, and that's mainly on Coach Davis. The second half defense was tremendous. They didn't lose because they allowed one guy a decent, but tough 3 point shot. There are going to be times when players get open. They held Xavier to 17 points under their average. Prior to Davis' 3, I don't think Xavier made a field goal for over 5 minutes (may have been more). UC has not lost this year when they've scored 60 points. Think about that for a moment. Defense is not the issue.

I agree with that. I was just pointing out you can't go under the screen in that spot especialy the way he was hitting. The 1st half we gave them way to many open looks. I think people posting confuse two different points. The Tulane game we didn't lose because of style. We played like shit and the numbers support that. This game was about two evenly matched teams with very different styles. They made the plays at the end and we didn't. We had a very good chance to win that game and mistakes cost us. The foul by clark,the missed FT, Going under the screen,and the cobb missed shot. We had our oportunities. You can argue all day that speedy up tempo would make a difference but without seeing it, its all conjecture.

 

[ccmbearcat]

I agree with that. I was just pointing out you can't go under the screen in that spot especialy the way he was hitting. The 1st half we gave them way to many open looks. I think people posting confuse two different points. The Tulane game we didn't lose because of style. We played like shit and the numbers support that. This game was about two evenly matched teams with very different styles. They made the plays at the end and we didn't. We had a very good chance to win that game and mistakes cost us. The foul by clark,the missed FT, Going under the screen,and the cobb missed shot. We had our oportunities. You can argue all day that speedy up tempo would make a difference but without seeing it, its all conjecture.

After we took the lead with a minute left they called time out and put all their 3 point shooters in, including Macura which is pretty much all he can do. It would have been nice to drill into them to not let them get a three point shot. Maybe Larry did do that during the timeout, I don't know. I was convinced they were going to try a three to take the lead, and that's exactly what they did.

Whatever adjustments we made didn't work, we were outscored 6-2 in the final minute.

 

[TheLongHaul]

I'd have to watch the replay, but I thought Dee Davis ran the baseline and popped up for the 3. If so, there was no option running below/above the screen.

 

[WAITE HOYT 2]

I'd have to watch the replay, but I thought Dee Davis ran the baseline and popped up for the 3. If so, there was no option running below/above the screen.

It was right in front of me. he was at front not on baseline. I screamed no when he let it go.