OOC Individual Player Grades

[justinhub2003]

Thought it be good idea to see how we all grade the performance of each player throughout the first segment of the year.

Here is mine:


Gary Clark: A+: What more could you ask of him? All out effort every night no matter if his shot falls or not. Hasn't peak offensively yet this year and can still assert himself even more

Jacob Evans: A- : Evans is shooting extremely well as always and in most games playing good defense and even blocking some shots. Needs to be more Alpha at times and continue to work on driving the ball

Kyle Washington: B: Kyle gets a B because he either has an A+ game or a D- minus game and its rarely in between. When he is on, he is unstoppable and we will rarely lose. But Defensively he still needs to be consistent. I liked his effort in the last few games since the Xavier game

Jarron Cumberland: C+: Jarron looks to be on the other end of a multiple game slump. He started the season nailing 3's and just looked energized. Then his demeanor quickly changed and he seemed to float. I actually like his defensive effort, but his struggles have been at the free throw and his 2 point shooting. He is a full 20% lower in 2pt FG% than last year. That has to to change. His offensive rating is also down 17 points and has basically been an average played this year.

Cane Broome: A-: When allowed to play his game, Cane is ultra dynamic and can beat just about anyone to the lane. His defense has been better than expected and while he does he get beat occasionally, he makes up for it with a nose for the ball and usually turns steals into quick points. He is getting better working with teammates to create them easy looks and his shooting from beyond the arc has been great.

Justin Jenifer: B: Justin is overachieving in that he was never expected to be a real contributor on a high major team. He is shooting well from 3 however he is failing to make top 100 teams respect his jump shot as he's failed to convert against good teams. His defense is good in the press but in the half court, he gets beat by his man causing the whole defensive scheme to collapse and thus give up open jumpers. Needs to generate more TO on defense, Drive the ball when he can and be a better playmaker. If were going to give up Cane's scoring when he is in, then he needs to be a great playmaker. So far its been ok and mostly inconsistent

Nysier Brooks: C: A lot of people in the UC fanbase were begging Mick to start Brooks over Kyle. I always advised against it because he hasn't proved he can score on a consistent basis. So far that has been the case. He seems to be getting better but for a guy his size, he's been rather soft around the rim, not blocking shots and doesn't rebound well at all. On the offensive glass, he has the 2nd worst Off rebounding rate on the team (Justin Jenifer is worst, which you'd expect). He is still has plenty of room for growth but has a lot of work to do before we trust him when Gary and Kyle leave

Tre Scott: A: Tre gets an A for effort. He is one of 3 players on the team with +10% off rebounding rate. And he has proven to be an excellent passer from the free throw line when teams zone us. His assist rate is better than any big on the team and while he doesn't shoot a ton, he is making 69% of his FG attempts. His Offensive rating is 2nd best on the team at 122

Keith Williams: B+ : Keith was over looked by most scouting services and teams, but there is no doubt he should have been securely in the top 100. I love the way he scores in a variety of ways, including post his man up and using a fade away jumper to create separation and score. He is playing solid defense and will continue to improve in this area. He is a spark off the bench and a future leading scorer when his time comes.

Trevor Moore: A : Completely unheralded and yet has proven that he is the perfect 3 and D player. He actually grades out as a better offensive and defensive player than Keith Williams so far. Synergy gives him an "Excellent" rating on offensive where he scores 1.06 points per possession and on defense is allowing only .80 points per possession which grades out as "Good". His 3 point shooting is going to be elite in a few years and his release is so quick that he doesnt need to be wide open like Farad Cobb had to be. Very happy with him so far. Elite effort player

Eliel Nsesome: B+: Another guy not expected to play let alone contribute. He is an ELITE rebounder and a very good interior passer. Im impressed with his defensive IQ. Can pretty much guard positions 2-5 and will be a rebounding beast when he gets his turn in the next few years.

Mamoudou Diarra: C- : Diarra is playing like the game is going too fast and wants to shoot out of Rythm jumpshots. Hard to get a good feel for him in limited minutes. I can see his potential but its going to require him to buy in. Has a floor of Quadri Moore and ceiling of the type of player we don't see play in a UC uniform too often. Needs to improve in All areas. Should have redshirted but My feeling is that his ego wouldn't allow it.

 

[jacobkdoyle]

Thought it be good idea to see how we all grade the performance of each player throughout the first segment of the year.

Here is mine:


Gary Clark: A+: What more could you ask of him? All out effort every night no matter if his shot falls or not. Hasn't peak offensively yet this year and can still assert himself even more

Jacob Evans: A- : Evans is shooting extremely well as always and in most games playing good defense and even blocking some shots. Needs to be more Alpha at times and continue to work on driving the ball

Kyle Washington: B: Kyle gets a B because he either has an A+ game or a D- minus game and its rarely in between. When he is on, he is unstoppable and we will rarely lose. But Defensively he still needs to be consistent. I liked his effort in the last few games since the Xavier game

Jarron Cumberland: C+: Jarron looks to be on the other end of a multiple game slump. He started the season nailing 3's and just looked energized. Then his demeanor quickly changed and he seemed to float. I actually like his defensive effort, but his struggles have been at the free throw and his 2 point shooting. He is a full 20% lower in 2pt FG% than last year. That has to to change. His offensive rating is also down 17 points and has basically been an average played this year.

Cane Broome: A-: When allowed to play his game, Cane is ultra dynamic and can beat just about anyone to the lane. His defense has been better than expected and while he does he get beat occasionally, he makes up for it with a nose for the ball and usually turns steals into quick points. He is getting better working with teammates to create them easy looks and his shooting from beyond the arc has been great.

Justin Jenifer: B: Justin is overachieving in that he was never expected to be a real contributor on a high major team. He is shooting well from 3 however he is failing to make top 100 teams respect his jump shot as he's failed to convert against good teams. His defense is good in the press but in the half court, he gets beat by his man causing the whole defensive scheme to collapse and thus give up open jumpers. Needs to generate more TO on defense, Drive the ball when he can and be a better playmaker. If were going to give up Cane's scoring when he is in, then he needs to be a great playmaker. So far its been ok and mostly inconsistent

Nysier Brooks: C: A lot of people in the UC fanbase were begging Mick to start Brooks over Kyle. I always advised against it because he hasn't proved he can score on a consistent basis. So far that has been the case. He seems to be getting better but for a guy his size, he's been rather soft around the rim, not blocking shots and doesn't rebound well at all. On the offensive glass, he has the 2nd worst Off rebounding rate on the team (Justin Jenifer is worst, which you'd expect). He is still has plenty of room for growth but has a lot of work to do before we trust him when Gary and Kyle leave

Tre Scott: A: Tre gets an A for effort. He is one of 3 players on the team with +10% off rebounding rate. And he has proven to be an excellent passer from the free throw line when teams zone us. His assist rate is better than any big on the team and while he doesn't shoot a ton, he is making 69% of his FG attempts. His Offensive rating is 2nd best on the team at 122

Keith Williams: B+ : Keith was over looked by most scouting services and teams, but there is no doubt he should have been securely in the top 100. I love the way he scores in a variety of ways, including post his man up and using a fade away jumper to create separation and score. He is playing solid defense and will continue to improve in this area. He is a spark off the bench and a future leading scorer when his time comes.

Trevor Moore: A : Completely unheralded and yet has proven that he is the perfect 3 and D player. He actually grades out as a better offensive and defensive player than Keith Williams so far. Synergy gives him an "Excellent" rating on offensive where he scores 1.06 points per possession and on defense is allowing only .80 points per possession which grades out as "Good". His 3 point shooting is going to be elite in a few years and his release is so quick that he doesnt need to be wide open like Farad Cobb had to be. Very happy with him so far. Elite effort player

Eliel Nsesome: B+: Another guy not expected to play let alone contribute. He is an ELITE rebounder and a very good interior passer. Im impressed with his defensive IQ. Can pretty much guard positions 2-5 and will be a rebounding beast when he gets his turn in the next few years.

Mamoudou Diarra: C- : Diarra is playing like the game is going too fast and wants to shoot out of Rythm jumpshots. Hard to get a good feel for him in limited minutes. I can see his potential but its going to require him to buy in. Has a floor of Quadri Moore and ceiling of the type of player we don't see play in a UC uniform too often. Needs to improve in All areas. Should have redshirted but My feeling is that his ego wouldn't allow it.

Without getting into too much right this second, I'd say that Cumberland, Williams, and Washington are given pretty generous grades. I'd say maybe C for Washington, D for Cumberland and C at best for Williams.

 

[justinhub2003]

Without getting into too much right this second, I'd say that Cumberland, Williams, and Washington are given pretty generous grades. I'd say maybe C for Washington, D for Cumberland and C at best for Williams.

I used analytics mixed with expectation to come to my conclusion. D is below average and very few of our players nationally rank below average.

Each player to me needs to be graded on their own scale based on role, expectation and what class their end (I wouldn’t expect a freshmen to outplay a senior or be on the same grade scale)

 

[jacobkdoyle]

I used analytics mixed with expectation to come to my conclusion. D is below average and very few of our players nationally rank below average.

Each player to me needs to be graded on their own scale based on role, expectation and what class their end (I wouldn’t expect a freshmen to outplay a senior or be on the same grade scale)

Washington is someone I could easily be talked into giving a B to. His rebounding and defense need to continue to be the thing he puts his focus on. We know he'll score. It just comes to him. When he's on he's as natural of a post scorer as you'll find in college basketball these days. He's had his ups and downs but at this point, he's about where we should hope I guess. He could have bigger numbers if we had more games that weren't complete blowouts. Hopefully he wrecks the AAC as the best 1 on 1 guy in the post.

Cumberland is a D for me. Hate to do it to him, but he hasn't been very good. Not sure what the deal is there. Hope fully he has a big game soon and shakes himself loose for the rest of the season. But to this point he hasn't lived up to the billing. A lot of people thought he'd be the leading scorer. But instead he's in a battle for 3rd and is shooting 56% from the line and under 40% overall. Not good enough. He's 9th on the team in TS% and 9th of scholarship players in PER. He's 7th on the team in Points/40 Minutes and 6th in FT attempts/40 minutes. We're going into conference play hoping to god that he can turn things around. That doesn't sound like a good grade to me. For an average SO, I'd be more lenient. But Cumberland had higher expectations.

For Williams, my #1 worry about him coming in was his shooting. He's 2-16 from 3 and 5-14 on FT. Can't play a guy like that. Reminds me of our teams of old, unfortunately. He has a long way to go. If he is the leading scorer for us at any point, I really have to wonder how good that team would be. He's not even in that ballpark at this point. He was supposed to be the headliner of this class. He hasn't shown that he is like Cumberland, Evans, Clark, or Caupain were in their FR years. Hopefully he becomes a guy we can use in conference play, but I don't have a very good feeling when he's in the game. It is hard to play Jenifer as much as we do, and have other non-offensive threats like Nsoseme, Brooks, Williams, and Scott. I expected more honestly out of Williams, especially when he got off to a decent start the first few games. But driving every single time can only get you so far, and it'll get harder the better the competition is, the more he shows he can't shoot it, and the more we have non-offensive players on the floor with him. There aren't very many statistics that are kind to Williams at this point. C-.

 

[justinhub2003]

Washington is someone I could easily be talked into giving a B to. His rebounding and defense need to continue to be the thing he puts his focus on. We know he'll score. It just comes to him. When he's on he's as natural of a post scorer as you'll find in college basketball these days. He's had his ups and downs but at this point, he's about where we should hope I guess. He could have bigger numbers if we had more games that weren't complete blowouts. Hopefully he wrecks the AAC as the best 1 on 1 guy in the post.

Cumberland is a D for me. Hate to do it to him, but he hasn't been very good. Not sure what the deal is there. Hope fully he has a big game soon and shakes himself loose for the rest of the season. But to this point he hasn't lived up to the billing. A lot of people thought he'd be the leading scorer. But instead he's in a battle for 3rd and is shooting 56% from the line and under 40% overall. Not good enough. He's 9th on the team in TS% and 9th of scholarship players in PER. He's 7th on the team in Points/40 Minutes and 6th in FT attempts/40 minutes. We're going into conference play hoping to god that he can turn things around. That doesn't sound like a good grade to me. For an average SO, I'd be more lenient. But Cumberland had higher expectations.

For Williams, my #1 worry about him coming in was his shooting. He's 2-16 from 3 and 5-14 on FT. Can't play a guy like that. Reminds me of our teams of old, unfortunately. He has a long way to go. If he is the leading scorer for us at any point, I really have to wonder how good that team would be. He's not even in that ballpark at this point. He was supposed to be the headliner of this class. He hasn't shown that he is like Cumberland, Evans, Clark, or Caupain were in their FR years. Hopefully he becomes a guy we can use in conference play, but I don't have a very good feeling when he's in the game. It is hard to play Jenifer as much as we do, and have other non-offensive threats like Nsoseme, Brooks, Williams, and Scott. I expected more honestly out of Williams, especially when he got off to a decent start the first few games. But driving every single time can only get you so far, and it'll get harder the better the competition is, the more he shows he can't shoot it, and the more we have non-offensive players on the floor with him. There aren't very many statistics that are kind to Williams at this point. C-.

I don’t think Williams will be a career 15% shooter from 3.

In fact, I think he can be a 30% shooter and for a guy with his driving ability, that’s all he needs. Currently his role is not to be a shooter. His role is to defend and break down defenses with drives at the rim. He is one of our better players at getting to the rim.

And I think Cronin has used both him and Moore correctly by playing which style of scoring we need.

I’m not at all unhappy with Keith. He is already better than a guy like Shaq Thomas.

 

[jacobkdoyle]

I don’t think Williams will be a career 15% shooter from 3.

In fact, I think he can be a 30% shooter and for a guy with his driving ability, that’s all he needs. Currently his role is not to be a shooter. His role is to defend and break down defenses with drives at the rim. He is one of our better players at getting to the rim.

And I think Cronin has used both him and Moore correctly by playing which style of scoring we need.

I’m not at all unhappy with Keith. He is already better than a guy like Shaq Thomas.

All I can grade is what I've seen and his shooting has been flat out terrible. So bad really that it just can't be overlooked no matter what else he does. If he shoots 30% from 3 here, we're in big trouble. That is no good for a guard and guy you'd like to be a go to scorer. And 30% honestly seems generous at this point.

 

[jacobkdoyle]

I don’t think Williams will be a career 15% shooter from 3.

In fact, I think he can be a 30% shooter and for a guy with his driving ability, that’s all he needs. Currently his role is not to be a shooter. His role is to defend and break down defenses with drives at the rim. He is one of our better players at getting to the rim.

And I think Cronin has used both him and Moore correctly by playing which style of scoring we need.

I’m not at all unhappy with Keith. He is already better than a guy like Shaq Thomas.

Just the fact that you mention Shaq Thomas scares the crap out of me.

 

[CHEER CINCY]

Just the fact that you mention Shaq Thomas scares the crap out of me.

Ha! Shaq Thomas is a name that generates instant puke-in-mouth syndrome.

Btw, Justin Jenifer: F-

 

[Patrick Bateman]

Mamoudou Diarra - hearing his age is reason why no redshirt
Moore - hard to believe he didn't start on his AAU team
Keith - needs to spend entire summer next to SK
Brooks - Little to no improvement from last year
Cumberland - said things on his snapchat about getting his mom things next year (You get idea)

 

[justinhub2003]

Alright guys. Let’s just cut Keith Williams from the team. Yank his scholarship because Bearcat nation gave up on a kid after 11 games in his freshman year. Wait... who’s the pessimist ?

Never mind that team who beat us in the shoot out has a PG who is shooting 5% from 3 on the year and yet finds a way to be effective.

Keith will never be a great shooter but he sure ain’t as bad as he is shooting now. I love how every one wanted a player who get to the rim just 2 years ago and now, we have him and we want a shooter instead. Strange

 

[jacobkdoyle]

Alright guys. Let’s just cut Keith Williams from the team. Yank his scholarship because Bearcat nation gave up on a kid after 11 games in his freshman year. Wait... who’s the pessimist ?

Never mind that team who beat us in the shoot out has a PG who is shooting 5% from 3 on the year and yet finds a way to be effective.

Keith will never be a great shooter but he sure ain’t as bad as he is shooting now. I love how every one wanted a player who get to the rim just 2 years ago and now, we have him and we want a shooter instead. Strange

I gave him a C-. That grade is based on 13 games. In those 13 games, as a guard, he has shot 12.5% from 3 and 35.7% from the line. That is not a B+ to me.

I don't ever want a 1, 2, or 3 (or even 4 these days) who can't shoot. That's not new. We've had a lot of that in the past and it doesn't work. Obviously Williams is going to be around and part of what we do, so we just have to hope he shoots better. But to this point, it has been really bad. Sorry if that upsets you. But it's true. Notice I didn't give him an F, or even a D. He does other things well, and I gave him credit for that. But a guard with those shooting numbers isn't getting a good grade from me, much less a B+.

 

[cincyguy13]

Alright guys. Let’s just cut Keith Williams from the team. Yank his scholarship because Bearcat nation gave up on a kid after 11 games in his freshman year. Wait... who’s the pessimist ?

Never mind that team who beat us in the shoot out has a PG who is shooting 5% from 3 on the year and yet finds a way to be effective.

Keith will never be a great shooter but he sure ain’t as bad as he is shooting now. I love how every one wanted a player who get to the rim just 2 years ago and now, we have him and we want a shooter instead. Strange

People are so sensitive on this board. If you don’t say everyone is perfect or actual think the team isn’t perfect people act like you hate the team. Saying he isn’t a good shooter is not trashing the kid. It’s not saying he won’t be a good player or good shooter in the future.

 

[NYCAT]

Jacob....give Williams a break! He started off 1-10 from 3 and 1-8 from the line. He's only a freshman. High energy is hard to control. As he gets more comfortable, his % will steadily rise. He takes it to the rim easier than any player on this team. Merry Xmas to all.

Go Bearcats!

 

[Bcatfollower]

Jacob....give Williams a break! He started off 1-10 from 3 and 1-8 from the line. He's only a freshman. High energy is hard to control. As he gets more comfortable, his % will steadily rise. He takes it to the rim easier than any player on this team. Merry Xmas to all.

Go Bearcats!

I think cumberland takes it to the rim better and normally has a outside shot that defenders need to respect making his pump fake better.

 

[jacobkdoyle]

Jacob....give Williams a break! He started off 1-10 from 3 and 1-8 from the line. He's only a freshman. High energy is hard to control. As he gets more comfortable, his % will steadily rise. He takes it to the rim easier than any player on this team. Merry Xmas to all.

Go Bearcats!

I'm just grading him on what happened the first 13 games. Those numbers you referenced are part of that. And so is the 1-6 from 3 after the 1-10 start (not even sure how you divide that up tbh). To this point, he has shot as poorly as any guard I've ever seen play at UC. And I really think they need to have him change his mechanics sooner than later. Letting him do what's comfortable over his career to the tune of abysmal shooting numbers sounds terrifying. We've had plenty of bad shooters before, I don't recall any of their shots fixing themselves without change. Hell it's been hard enough to try to fix some of these shots with change being taught. Either way, he's got a long way to go if he wants to be a standout D1 player on a good team.

 

[waterhead]

I don’t think Williams will be a career 15% shooter from 3.

In fact, I think he can be a 30% shooter and for a guy with his driving ability, that’s all he needs. Currently his role is not to be a shooter. His role is to defend and break down defenses with drives at the rim. He is one of our better players at getting to the rim.

And I think Cronin has used both him and Moore correctly by playing which style of scoring we need.

I’m not at all unhappy with Keith. He is already better than a guy like Shaq Thomas.

I'm with Hub on Williams. We have had plenty of players on the wing in the past could not shoot or drive. I would take 30 percent from a player who gets to the rim that often.

KJ could not shoot or drive. Dixon was sub 30 percent for his career. Sanders played a lot of minutes for us and wasn't good at either one.

 

[rogerOH]

I have no doubt that Keith will come on strong. I don't think his mechanics are all that bad and he will continue to get minutes because he is the best on the team in the full-court press. IMO as always. Go Keith throw up 15 points in the next game and quiet this thread.

 

[jacobkdoyle]

I have no doubt that Keith will come on strong. I don't think his mechanics are all that bad and he will continue to get minutes because he is the best on the team in the full-court press. IMO as always. Go Keith throw up 15 points in the next game and quiet this thread.

I'm sorry for pointing out stats that are so uncomfortable for some. It's not like I'm anti-Williams. I hope he's the next Dwayne Wade. I mean, quiet this thread? Smh. Seriously? If he has 15, I'll be cheering as loudly as anyone. But that doesn't mean he has shot the ball well to this point. And I'm pretty sure this entire thread is meant to grade that, along with everything else. If we can't be critical of a guy shooting 12.5% from 3 and 35.7% from FT line, then what's the point of any of this? Why not just give every player an A+ no matter what and call it a day?

 

[jacobkdoyle]

I'm with Hub on Williams. We have had plenty of players on the wing in the past could not shoot or drive. I would take 30 percent from a player who gets to the rim that often.

KJ could not shoot or drive. Dixon was sub 30 percent for his career. Sanders played a lot of minutes for us and wasn't good at either one.

Gross. 30% 3 point shooting from a guard you want to be a leading/double figure scorer is awful. How far are we going to get with that? I don't get it. The guy is a FR. Why not work on fixing it over the next 3 years and hope for better than 30%? If Evans and Cumberland are still around next year, he won't be expected to do a ton more than he does now. So that's 2 years to work on a better shooting form that can yield better results. Why would anyone be against that? It's so weird to me. This feels like the Gary Clark thing all over again. So many people argued after his FR year that we should just bulk him up to 250, have him play in the post, and maybe work out to 15 feet by his SR year. Then he could go overseas. I was treated like a lunatic for daring to suggest that he expand his game sooner, and out to the 3 pt line. Well look at him now. Where would we be had he not put the work in to be more than what he was already good at? Now he's an NBA prospect and we're a Top 15 team, mostly bc of him. If you want Williams to be a guy like that for UC some day, why resist developing him into a player who can actually be that? It's called player development. The whole point for us is that we are a 4 year program. Guys don't come in here as finished products. Williams is not a finished product. His shooting is holding him back. It always will if it isn't addressed. If our coaches take his shooting this year, shrug their shoulders, and let him ride out his next 3 years shooting the same way and hoping for 30%, then they aren't doing their jobs. Plain and simple. I'll bet money that we hear a lot this offseason about Williams working on his shot. It would be stupid of him not to. He has the length, athleticism, finishing ability, and will be an elite wing defender. That's big. And he can be a good player by just doing that. But accepting 30% as the ceiling of his 3 pt shooting during his FR year is insane to me. And maybe that's what he ends up being. Maybe he just can't shoot, maybe he reverts back to old form in games, I dunno. But what I do know is that it'd be silly to let him go through the rest of his career without addressing an Achilles heel. We develop players over 4 years here. It's not too late to help him be the best player he can be. But just rolling with the status quo for 4 years doesn't make any sense to me. And bringing up Sanders and KJ, someone bringing up Shaq Thomas yesterday...really? Shouldn't that set off alarm bells for you? No offense to those guys, but they weren't great players. Williams still can be. But not the way he shoots it now. His floor is a Shaq Thomas type. He can hit that floor whether he works on his shooting form or not. But he can hit a higher ceiling if he takes the next 3 years to work his ass off on a shoot with a cleaner looking release. It's not even the biggest deal on earth bc it's his off hand that is out of whack. His rotation still seems ok.

Really confused why any of this would be met with such strong resistance. I want Keith Williams to be as good a player as he can possibly be. Period. I want our team to be as good as we can possibly be. Period. I just don't see us being as good as we can possibly be down the road, if Williams doesn't make more progress than 30% as a 3 pt shooter.

 

[jacobkdoyle]

Alright guys. Let’s just cut Keith Williams from the team. Yank his scholarship because Bearcat nation gave up on a kid after 11 games in his freshman year. Wait... who’s the pessimist ?

Never mind that team who beat us in the shoot out has a PG who is shooting 5% from 3 on the year and yet finds a way to be effective.

Keith will never be a great shooter but he sure ain’t as bad as he is shooting now. I love how every one wanted a player who get to the rim just 2 years ago and now, we have him and we want a shooter instead. Strange

If Williams plays PG with shooters around him everywhere, then I'll live with it. But he was sold as a wing who could be our best player someday.

I'll just say this...if you're fine setting the bar for Williams at 30% 3 pt shooting, you should be screaming that every recruit we land for the next 3 years shoots like Trevor Moore. Bc when Clark, Washington, Broome, Evans, and maybe even Cumberland are gone in 2019-20, we will have L Johnson, Williams, Moore, Scott, Brooks, Diarra, and Nsoseme so far. If defenses pack in on any combo of those lineups, how good is Williams going to be at driving? Even LeBron James would struggle for space in a lineup like that.