OOC Individual Player Grades

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jacobkdoyle said:
If Williams plays PG with shooters around him everywhere, then I'll live with it. But he was sold as a wing who could be our best player someday.

I'll just say this...if you're fine setting the bar for Williams at 30% 3 pt shooting, you should be screaming that every recruit we land for the next 3 years shoots like Trevor Moore. Bc when Clark, Washington, Broome, Evans, and maybe even Cumberland are gone in 2019-20, we will have L Johnson, Williams, Moore, Scott, Brooks, Diarra, and Nsoseme so far. If defenses pack in on any combo of those lineups, how good is Williams going to be at driving? Even LeBron James would struggle for space in a lineup like that.
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Where is Cumberland going?
 
jacobkdoyle said:
Gross. 30% 3 point shooting from a guard you want to be a leading/double figure scorer is awful. How far are we going to get with that? I don't get it. The guy is a FR. Why not work on fixing it over the next 3 years and hope for better than 30%? If Evans and Cumberland are still around next year, he won't be expected to do a ton more than he does now. So that's 2 years to work on a better shooting form that can yield better results. Why would anyone be against that? It's so weird to me. This feels like the Gary Clark thing all over again. So many people argued after his FR year that we should just bulk him up to 250, have him play in the post, and maybe work out to 15 feet by his SR year. Then he could go overseas. I was treated like a lunatic for daring to suggest that he expand his game sooner, and out to the 3 pt line. Well look at him now. Where would we be had he not put the work in to be more than what he was already good at? Now he's an NBA prospect and we're a Top 15 team, mostly bc of him. If you want Williams to be a guy like that for UC some day, why resist developing him into a player who can actually be that? It's called player development. The whole point for us is that we are a 4 year program. Guys don't come in here as finished products. Williams is not a finished product. His shooting is holding him back. It always will if it isn't addressed. If our coaches take his shooting this year, shrug their shoulders, and let him ride out his next 3 years shooting the same way and hoping for 30%, then they aren't doing their jobs. Plain and simple. I'll bet money that we hear a lot this offseason about Williams working on his shot. It would be stupid of him not to. He has the length, athleticism, finishing ability, and will be an elite wing defender. That's big. And he can be a good player by just doing that. But accepting 30% as the ceiling of his 3 pt shooting during his FR year is insane to me. And maybe that's what he ends up being. Maybe he just can't shoot, maybe he reverts back to old form in games, I dunno. But what I do know is that it'd be silly to let him go through the rest of his career without addressing an Achilles heel. We develop players over 4 years here. It's not too late to help him be the best player he can be. But just rolling with the status quo for 4 years doesn't make any sense to me. And bringing up Sanders and KJ, someone bringing up Shaq Thomas yesterday...really? Shouldn't that set off alarm bells for you? No offense to those guys, but they weren't great players. Williams still can be. But not the way he shoots it now. His floor is a Shaq Thomas type. He can hit that floor whether he works on his shooting form or not. But he can hit a higher ceiling if he takes the next 3 years to work his ass off on a shoot with a cleaner looking release. It's not even the biggest deal on earth bc it's his off hand that is out of whack. His rotation still seems ok.

Really confused why any of this would be met with such strong resistance. I want Keith Williams to be as good a player as he can possibly be. Period. I want our team to be as good as we can possibly be. Period. I just don't see us being as good as we can possibly be down the road, if Williams doesn't make more progress than 30% as a 3 pt shooter.
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Not sure who suggested he shouldn't work on his shot to be the best can be. I think 30 percent is a minimum standard for any guard...but we have had players around that number with no other offensive game to speak of.

Williams (compared to other Cronin recruits) looks like a top talent at getting to the rim. Of course EVERYONE would rather he shoot better than 30...no brainer.
 
waterhead said:
Not sure who suggested he shouldn't work on his shot to be the best can be. I think 30 percent is a minimum standard for any guard...but we have had players around that number with no other offensive game to speak of.

Williams (compared to other Cronin recruits) looks like a top talent at getting to the rim. Of course EVERYONE would rather he shoot better than 30...no brainer.
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His shot is broken. It needs serious fixing if he's going to become the player we hope.
 
Bcatfollower said:
I think cumberland takes it to the rim better and normally has a outside shot that defenders need to respect making his pump fake better.
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I really don't think so. Cumberland charges a bunch and doesn't finish nearly as well. Williams will be a great bearcat before he is through. He will improve his shot and if he does will be unstoppable. Remember you heard it hear first.

That said I still give him a c to this point.
 
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WAITE HOYT 2 said:
I really don't think so. Cumberland charges a bunch and doesn't finish nearly as well. Williams will be a great bearcat before he is through. He will improve his shot and if he does will be unstoppable. Remember you heard it hear first.

That said I still give him a c to this point.
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You better duck!
 
jacobkdoyle said:
His shot is broken. It needs serious fixing if he's going to become the player we hope.
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I would like to see his shot form look better obviously. Problem is Thomas spent 4 years here without his arc being addressed. Scott has a similar problem.

Although the form of Williams is not good he has nice arc and rotation on the ball. I can't recall ever witnessing Cronin adjust the shooting form of a player noticeably.
 
waterhead said:
I would like to see his shot form look better obviously. Problem is Thomas spent 4 years here without his arc being addressed. Scott has a similar problem.

Although the form of Williams is not good he has nice arc and rotation on the ball. I can't recall ever witnessing Cronin adjust the shooting form of a player noticeably.
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My point is arc of ball flight is an easy fix compared to form...and it basically went untouched. I think Thomas got his shot up a hair in the final year early on but then reverted by seasons end.
 
waterhead said:
I would like to see his shot form look better obviously. Problem is Thomas spent 4 years here without his arc being addressed. Scott has a similar problem.

Although the form of Williams is not good he has nice arc and rotation on the ball. I can't recall ever witnessing Cronin adjust the shooting form of a player noticeably.
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Jenifer is one. I know they'd say Thomas looked good on his shot except in games he'd freak out and revert back. It's not the biggest adjustment in the world for Williams, that's why I think it's worth pursuing. It'd be a real shame if his career was held back bc of his shot.
 
jacobkdoyle said:
We are on the same page. I really hope he can improve his shooting.
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Jake if his shot improves and Evans stays another year Cumberland better step his game up. Williams finishes well around the rim, is more athletic and defensively he is going to be a lock down defender.
 
Jake this probably won't be real popular either but the player who I am most disappointed in is Cumberland. He is seeing the court more and to this point I really haven't seen a increase in effectiveness. Actually in the last few weeks he has regressed. Many posting here had him as a candidate to be our leading scorer.
 
Jakè I will also point out that if Cumberland continues to regress you may see Cane begin to eat up some of his minutes. Especially considering he has been terrible from the FT line.
 
Cane isn’t a sg though. No way cane replaces the sg spot before the pg spot. If that happens we are truly in trouble.
 
cincrulz11 said:
Cane isn’t a sg though. No way cane replaces the sg spot before the pg spot. If that happens we are truly in trouble.
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Cane played off the ball at sacred heart quite a bit. He is someone who can score at all levels rather it be from the PG or Wing. Cumberland is on pace to have twice as many TO's as last year. He is playing more minutes and his game is trending down. If we don't fix that we are in trouble.
 
Cumberland has intangibles that most of our players dont have. Alot of players struggle with cold streaks but his positives outweigh the negstive. Also for those believing williams will be better or is better look at cumberlands contribution as a freshman last year compared to williams so far. Does anyone want to say williams will be sixth man of the year this year?
 

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