Purdue Coach and Vandy Newspaper were critical of XU players?

[Thegreatone]

A day after XU played Vandy their beat writers were tweeting that some inside Vandy were considering not playing Xavier again. I didnt think much of this and still dont.

Now that Purdue's coach has been very critical of Xavier and UC has had issues I think we might be seeing a trend.

Butler has had some issues with Xavier recently too.

I do not think it is a Xavier issue, I think it is a Lyons and Holloway issue honestly.

Thoughts?

 

[ucdave]

A day after XU played Vandy their beat writers were tweeting that some inside Vandy were considering not playing Xavier again. I didnt think much of this and still dont.

Now that Purdue's coach has been very critical of Xavier and UC has had issues I think we might be seeing a trend.

Butler has had some issues with Xavier recently too.

I do not think it is a Xavier issue, I think it is a Lyons and Holloway issue honestly.

Thoughts?

I honestly think it is a Chris Mack issue. XU won't just change the way they play because Halloway, Freese and Lyons leave.

 

[UCBearcats]

A day after XU played Vandy their beat writers were tweeting that some inside Vandy were considering not playing Xavier again. I didnt think much of this and still dont.

Now that Purdue's coach has been very critical of Xavier and UC has had issues I think we might be seeing a trend.

Butler has had some issues with Xavier recently too.

I do not think it is a Xavier issue, I think it is a Lyons and Holloway issue honestly.

Thoughts?

Any links, quotes or sources to the comments or newspaper stories listed above?

 

[TheLongHaul]

Any links, quotes or sources to the comments or newspaper stories listed above?

Here's some:

FOX19Joe Joe Danneman
Matt Painter on Xavier with Dan Dakich on ESPN 1070: "Right away from watching film, they talk. And, they talk a lot."

@FOX19Joe
Joe Danneman More Painter: "It could've been handled. And, to me, you handle it in the Purdue game and it doesn't happen in the Cincinnati game

 

[Thegreatone]

On the Shootout and playing Xavier earlier this year:
"If you watched our game with Xavier it happened all the time (trash talking), and it continued to happened. And in neither game did they (officials) get control of the game."



On his frustration with Xavier:
Right away, from watching film, they (XU) talk. They talk a lot. It was one of the first thing we talked about in our scouting report, was tell our guys 'don't get caught up".
When we got into the game, the same thing happened. I'm talking to the officials about things happening in the game, about timeouts and their guys were hitting our players coming off the timeouts, and they are looking at me like I was crazy. If you watch the film it happened, it's easy to see and the refs just ignored it. To me it could have been handled. If it was handled in our game, it doesn't happen in the UC game."



On feedback he gave Rick Boyages (Big Ten Associate Commissioner) about Purdue's game vs Xavier:
Maybe I wasn't aggressive after the XU game, in terms of giving feedback because obvioulsy it's not our conference, but I gave him that feedback. I told him I was concerned that these things would continue and what would they lead to? I watched that game (UC-XU). I'm really not that smart a guy. But watching the first half I said, 'something is going to happen, there's going to be a fight'. I'm sitting there watching, getting ready for Oregon, and it's easy for me to see that. It's got to be real easy to see if you are working the game to see it."



On taking control of emotional players:
"I've got a couple wild cards. I've got a couple of guys that right away, when they start to get into it, I get on 'em. Rob Hummel, Ryan Smith, Lewis Jackson aren't wild cards, they are my senior. They know what's going on and who they represent. I've got a couple of younger guys that get real emotional and talk. You've got to stop them. I've got one I just sub out. I tell him if your going to act a fool your coming out."



On officials controling a game:
"It is easy, as an official, if guys are trash-talking, to say 'no more'.
It’s real easy, if guys continue you to give 'em a tech. One guys get a tech they won't go about things the game way. It's handled by officials and it's no longer an issue"



Read more: http://www.espn1530.com/pages/lancesBlog.html#ixzz1gWONp8Jb

 

[Thegreatone]

Ill hunt for some Vandy quotes. i saw them on twitter a while ago but not sure if there was an aritcle or not...

 

[UCBearcats]

On the Shootout and playing Xavier earlier this year:
"If you watched our game with Xavier it happened all the time (trash talking), and it continued to happened. And in neither game did they (officials) get control of the game."



On his frustration with Xavier:
Right away, from watching film, they (XU) talk. They talk a lot. It was one of the first thing we talked about in our scouting report, was tell our guys 'don't get caught up".
When we got into the game, the same thing happened. I'm talking to the officials about things happening in the game, about timeouts and their guys were hitting our players coming off the timeouts, and they are looking at me like I was crazy. If you watch the film it happened, it's easy to see and the refs just ignored it. To me it could have been handled. If it was handled in our game, it doesn't happen in the UC game."



On feedback he gave Rick Boyages (Big Ten Associate Commissioner) about Purdue's game vs Xavier:
Maybe I wasn't aggressive after the XU game, in terms of giving feedback because obvioulsy it's not our conference, but I gave him that feedback. I told him I was concerned that these things would continue and what would they lead to? I watched that game (UC-XU). I'm really not that smart a guy. But watching the first half I said, 'something is going to happen, there's going to be a fight'. I'm sitting there watching, getting ready for Oregon, and it's easy for me to see that. It's got to be real easy to see if you are working the game to see it."



On taking control of emotional players:
"I've got a couple wild cards. I've got a couple of guys that right away, when they start to get into it, I get on 'em. Rob Hummel, Ryan Smith, Lewis Jackson aren't wild cards, they are my senior. They know what's going on and who they represent. I've got a couple of younger guys that get real emotional and talk. You've got to stop them. I've got one I just sub out. I tell him if your going to act a fool your coming out."



On officials controling a game:
"It is easy, as an official, if guys are trash-talking, to say 'no more'.
It’s real easy, if guys continue you to give 'em a tech. One guys get a tech they won't go about things the game way. It's handled by officials and it's no longer an issue"



Read more: http://www.espn1530.com/pages/lancesBlog.html#ixzz1gWONp8Jb

Wow, that's pretty damning for XU. IMO it reflects very poorly on Coach Mack. I expect now that we've seen it blow up into a fight we probably won't see anymore issues out of XU the remainder of the season. If something like this happens again, either a fight or another coach coming out and making negative comments about their team, then XU needs to start talking about punishments for Coach Mack.

I wouldn't say it makes what happened any better or worse for UC. Sounds like Painter has control of his guys, had Mick done some things differently before the fact none of this happens. Not that I blame Mick for the fight, just saying.

PS - Thanks for the research and the quotes.

 

[DontMissHim]

I mean. Its player trash talking- ask any losing team and the won't like it. (I am not talking about last 15 seconds of UC/X). Some players feed off of trash talk, they like it and it helps them get going. Ask Reggie Miller, he said as much in his 30 for 30 "Winning Time". I don't think X is the only team that talks trash in the country and I don't think its a big deal. If thats what the players need to give themselves an edge then use it.

Mark and Tu believe they are the best back court in the country and they like to tell other teams that. Whether or not thats true doesn't matter, they feed off of that. They feed off of the swagger and mentality that no one can hang with them and thats why they are where they are (a top 5 back court in the country)

I mean, I honestly can't believe everyone is so mad at this trash talking thing. I don't think if X lets Tu and Mark speak this is a story at all. Again, ask any losing team how they felt about the trash talking of the other team and see what they say. A few years ago X was livid at Adam Morrison for using racial slurs during the game. He was known to be a big trash talker, I didn't hate him for it- did you?

 

[Thegreatone]

I mean. Its player trash talking- ask any losing team and the won't like it. (I am not talking about last 15 seconds of UC/X). Some players feed off of trash talk, they like it and it helps them get going. Ask Reggie Miller, he said as much in his 30 for 30 "Winning Time". I don't think X is the only team that talks trash in the country and I don't think its a big deal. If thats what the players need to give themselves an edge then use it.

Mark and Tu believe they are the best back court in the country and they like to tell other teams that. Whether or not thats true doesn't matter, they feed off of that. They feed off of the swagger and mentality that no one can hang with them and thats why they are where they are (a top 5 back court in the country)

I mean, I honestly can't believe everyone is so mad at this trash talking thing. I don't think if X lets Tu and Mark speak this is a story at all. Again, ask any losing team how they felt about the trash talking of the other team and see what they say. A few years ago X was livid at Adam Morrison for using racial slurs during the game. He was known to be a big trash talker, I didn't hate him for it- did you?

I agree that trash talking is no big deal. I talk a bunch when I play.

The issue is when it crosses the line and it gets dirty.

When schools start not wanting to play Xavier because of this rep it has crossed the line.

This isnt Reggie vs Spike. It is not about Tu or Yancy. It is about Xavier and Cincinnati. unfourtanately this is going to hurt XU's rep as much as Tu's. It is a bigger deal in college sports with students athletes.

I am not saying it is a crucial blow but it does hurt. If you dont think it is a big deal that is fine. But why is there such a big deal with X? Other schools win a lot of games and you dont hear this.

 

[TheLongHaul]

surprise surprise, a xavier fan is supporting the behavior now that it's their team doing it.

 

[UCBearcats]

I mean. Its player trash talking- ask any losing team and the won't like it. (I am not talking about last 15 seconds of UC/X). Some players feed off of trash talk, they like it and it helps them get going. Ask Reggie Miller, he said as much in his 30 for 30 "Winning Time". I don't think X is the only team that talks trash in the country and I don't think its a big deal. If thats what the players need to give themselves an edge then use it.

Mark and Tu believe they are the best back court in the country and they like to tell other teams that. Whether or not thats true doesn't matter, they feed off of that. They feed off of the swagger and mentality that no one can hang with them and thats why they are where they are (a top 5 back court in the country)

I mean, I honestly can't believe everyone is so mad at this trash talking thing. I don't think if X lets Tu and Mark speak this is a story at all. Again, ask any losing team how they felt about the trash talking of the other team and see what they say. A few years ago X was livid at Adam Morrison for using racial slurs during the game. He was known to be a big trash talker, I didn't hate him for it- did you?

There is a big difference between trash talking and what Xavier players are doing. Trash talking happens in every game, usually coaches don't even comment on it. To have two seperate coaches make comments about Xavier players being out of control and then to have the fight at the Shootout reflects poorly on your school, no matter how big of a homer you want to be about it.

You had X players acting like fools in last year's shootout and throwing punches in the loss. You had the Butler incident and you have coaches coming out and saying Xavier's talking and on court actions are over the top. If guys are acting like idiots and getting in trouble off the court that is one thing, if guys are acting like idiots on the court and lack the ability to respect the game or the uniforms they are wearing that's another issue.

Let me sum it all up by saying I personally couldn't care less. It doesn't offend me or make me angry and I'm not going to pretend like it does. I don't care about the fight from a moral aspect or anything like that. I'm concerned with UC and the fact that we can't win cames. I don't give a crap about Xavier and think everyone should just worry about their own teams. Xavier fans for years have always talked about how UC players are thugs and have bragged about their team's squeaky clean image. If Xavier fans thought it was that important back then why aren't any of them ashamed of how their team is acting now?

 

[DontMissHim]

I am not saying it is a crucial blow but it does hurt. If you dont think it is a big deal that is fine. But why is there such a big deal with X? Other schools win a lot of games and you dont hear this.

I think if you saw another team get in a fight- you would hear from former teams how they talked trash and stuff like that. If this fight never happened you wouldn't hear anything about how much Xavier talks. After the fight occurred- you have reporters going to coaches of teams X has played and ask about Xaviers talking. Did you have a big issue with it until the last 20 seconds of the game?

 

[UCBearcats]

I think if you saw another team get in a fight- you would hear from former teams how they talked trash and stuff like that. If this fight never happened you wouldn't hear anything about how much Xavier talks. After the fight occurred- you have reporters going to coaches of teams X has played and ask about Xaviers talking. Did you have a big issue with it until the last 20 seconds of the game?

Very, very valid argument dontmisshim, I didn't think about it that way.

I don't know about you but I can speak for my friends who are XU fans. You guys can't have your cake and eat it too. For years calling our program a bunch of thugs and acting like you cared so much about how we were a classless program and Huggins was a snake. Well now guess what, you guys are winning and your coach appears to have some issues with controlling his players. You have some players on your team who can't really be qualified as good guys. Should you care? I don't think so, because you're winning and winning is awesome. Just realize that it makes XU fans look like the hypocrites that they are.

If these things are going to keep happening it's going to hurt your image. Just like it hurt UC's when Huggs was here. It comes with the territory, welcome to big time college basektball.

 

[DontMissHim]

Very, very valid argument dontmisshim, I didn't think about it that way.

I don't know about you but I can speak my friends who are XU fans. You guys can't have your cake and eat it too. For years calling our program a bunch of thugs and acting like you cared so much about how we were a classless program and Huggins was a snake. Well now guess what, you guys are winning and your coach appears to have some issues with controlling his players. You have some players on your team who can't really be qualified as good guys. Should you care? I don't think so, because you're winning and winning is awesome. Just realize that it makes XU fans look like the hypocrites that they are.

If these things are going to keep happening it's going to hurt your image. Just like it hurt UC's when Huggs was here. It comes with the territory, welcome to big time college basektball.

I agree with what you are saying- X use to brag about being clean and would rip UC for having "thugs". Bottom line- X is getting better and with that they will recruit better...and, I don't want to cross a line saying this- but sometimes recruiting better you recruit more risky guys.

I completely understand what you are saying and think its legit. Just last week a Xavier board was wondering who started this swagger X had and loved it. After the crosstown--that same swagger everyone loved a week earlier, everyone started to hate and people were "ashamed" of it. You can't have it both ways.

 

[Thegreatone]

I think if you saw another team get in a fight- you would hear from former teams how they talked trash and stuff like that. If this fight never happened you wouldn't hear anything about how much Xavier talks. After the fight occurred- you have reporters going to coaches of teams X has played and ask about Xaviers talking. Did you have a big issue with it until the last 20 seconds of the game?

In fairness Vandy spoke out against it way before shootout. Butler also has.

I am not upset with trash talking at all. It cant get out of control though. Perception becomes reality.

 

[thebeast]

Very, very valid argument dontmisshim, I didn't think about it that way.

I don't know about you but I can speak for my friends who are XU fans. You guys can't have your cake and eat it too. For years calling our program a bunch of thugs and acting like you cared so much about how we were a classless program and Huggins was a snake. Well now guess what, you guys are winning and your coach appears to have some issues with controlling his players. You have some players on your team who can't really be qualified as good guys. Should you care? I don't think so, because you're winning and winning is awesome. Just realize that it makes XU fans look like the hypocrites that they are.

If these things are going to keep happening it's going to hurt your image. Just like it hurt UC's when Huggs was here. It comes with the territory, welcome to big time college basektball.

I know you don't want to go here but I am going to take it there and say that better players are not riskier. Chris Mack will recruit players with a similar personality to himself which is a pompous arrogant asshole. So thats the type of player they recruit. For every top 100 that is a bad seed there is also a top 100 player that is a class act. Thad Matta had great players and great people as were stanley burrell, derrick brown and most players from the Miller Era. But now Mack is coach he is recruiting punks. It all leads back to the coach imo.

 

[Kingsley Court]

I know you don't want to go here but I am going to take it there and say that better players are not riskier. Chris Mack will recruit players with a similar personality to himself which is a pompous arrogant asshole. So thats the type of player they recruit. For every top 100 that is a bad seed there is also a top 100 player that is a class act. Thad Matta had great players and great people as were stanley burrell, derrick brown and most players from the Miller Era. But now Mack is coach he is recruiting punks. It all leads back to the coach imo.

It's interesting you say that, as I've heard a lot of UC fans hated stanley burrell and still do to this day. He talked a lot of trash out there.

Also, I think people are going overboard with this stuff. Obviously I would, I'm a Xavier fan. But, think for a second what the trash talking and other things the Xavier team does to opposing teams. If they are talking about it after the game, it obviously got in their heads. Some of the dirtiest trash talkers out there would say that trash talking not only helped them, but it made other players worse. It made other players try and overcome the trash talking and prove something that they weren't able to do, it made opposing players get out of their game just enough to where it affected the game.

Talking trash, bumping into players at a TO on the way to your bench, it's all a mind game. If what the Xavier players were doing was so bad, there would have been a T given at some point in the season for it. The refs seem to not have a problem with their behavior.

Honestly, these players have been at Xavier for a while now, and I they have been talking just as long, yet I've not seen coaches in previous years complain about it. I've not seen the media write or talk about it, before the fight.

 

[Bearcat04]

Honestly, these players have been at Xavier for a while now, and I they have been talking just as long, yet I've not seen coaches in previous years complain about it. I've not seen the media write or talk about it, before the fight.

Because it's getting worse by the game. When your guard isn't even looking at the ball being inbounded because he's busy dropping F bombs at the opposing bench, I'd say that's excessive. That was Lyons from Saturday.

 

[Bearcat04]

It's interesting you say that, as I've heard a lot of UC fans hated stanley burrell and still do to this day. He talked a lot of trash out there.

I never liked guys like Burrell and West, but I at least respected them and Xavier's program. Lately that is getting harder to do. What you and other X fans simply blow off as harmless talk, others around the country (including opposing coaches) see it as classless and completely over the top. I could just imagine what the X boards would look like if a UC or UD player was cussing their bench out all game and using body bag references. The holier-than-thou pack would be calling for investigations!

 

[Ryno99]

I mean. Its player trash talking- ask any losing team and the won't like it. (I am not talking about last 15 seconds of UC/X). Some players feed off of trash talk, they like it and it helps them get going. Ask Reggie Miller, he said as much in his 30 for 30 "Winning Time". I don't think X is the only team that talks trash in the country and I don't think its a big deal. If thats what the players need to give themselves an edge then use it.

Mark and Tu believe they are the best back court in the country and they like to tell other teams that. Whether or not thats true doesn't matter, they feed off of that. They feed off of the swagger and mentality that no one can hang with them and thats why they are where they are (a top 5 back court in the country)

I mean, I honestly can't believe everyone is so mad at this trash talking thing. I don't think if X lets Tu and Mark speak this is a story at all. Again, ask any losing team how they felt about the trash talking of the other team and see what they say. A few years ago X was livid at Adam Morrison for using racial slurs during the game. He was known to be a big trash talker, I didn't hate him for it- did you?

There are levels and limits to everything though, and these two obviously take it past that limit. Let's just be honest here, it's pretty obvious and just like you say everyone is saying Yancy threw a sucker punch, everyone is saying these two talk too much trash to an extreme level.