Recruiting Discussion

[JasonS]

So if Mick doesn't absolutely dominate the AAC then he's a terrible coach? Is that what I'm hearing from you right now??

The simple fact of the matter is that Josh Pastner is a young coach with an excellent resume. Getting top 15 recruiting classes to play for you is a big accomplishment in it's own right. He's been to 3 NCAA's in the last 4 years. You can belittle his accomplishments all you want and make excuses for Mick's but at the end of the day for someone to hold Mick up on a pedestal and use Josh Pastner as an example of failure is a complete and utter joke.

Not that it's a surprise but you really just don't get it, do you? Pastner has underachieved on the sidelines with the recruits he has had. Doesn't mean he is a terrible coach but he should have done better with what he had and the situation he walked in to. The fact that he didn't probably says something about what Calipari did do at Memphis (as much as it pains me to say it).

To say that Pastner walked into the same situation that Mick did at UC is asinine. Where have you been the last several years on this forum when it was rehashed OVER AND OVER AND OVER what the UC Administration did to this program. The NCAA gave Memphis a slap on the wrist. Ooh, they vacated a final four banner. Big deal. UC gave themselves a two year death penalty because the administration were a bunch of idiots. You don't have to like Mick Cronin and obviously you don't. In fact, it is apparent you would rather have UC lose just because of Mick. Whatever. I don't really have any more time to dedicate to you and your attitude towards UC Basketball, but if you aren't smart enough to realize that the situations were not remotely similar, there is no hope for you...ever.

UCBearcats, "what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."

 

[Ryno99]

I do love it though, the delusional posters on this board keep me entertained.

Glad to see you are as entertained by yourself as we are. Always good to be able to laugh at yourself.

 

[Patrick Bateman]

What about Bo Ryan, Jamie Dixon, Scott Drew, JT3, Tubby and Stevie Lavin. Haven't seen them mentioned.

Also, Calipari took a #1 recruiting class and lost to the worst team in the NIT. Not that it matters to his recruiting machine but that is some poor coaching.

 

[UCBearcats]

What about Bo Ryan, Jamie Dixon, Scott Drew, JT3, Tubby and Stevie Lavin. Haven't seen them mentioned.

Also, Calipari took a #1 recruiting class and lost to the worst team in the NIT. Not that it matters to his recruiting machine but that is some poor coaching.

Calapari just won a national championship. Bo Ryan has made the NCAA's for 12 straight years. People that live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones, this conversation is a complete joke.

 

[JasonS]

Calapari just won a national championship. Bo Ryan has made the NCAA's for 12 straight years. People that live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones, this conversation is a complete joke.

Advice that maybe you should heed?

 

[coachpipe]

Advice that maybe you should heed?

I think hes under the impression that the loudest voice wins the argument. Which would make him a true American

 

[JasonS]

What about Bo Ryan, Jamie Dixon, Scott Drew, JT3, Tubby and Stevie Lavin. Haven't seen them mentioned.

Also, Calipari took a #1 recruiting class and lost to the worst team in the NIT. Not that it matters to his recruiting machine but that is some poor coaching.

Bo Ryan plays a boring and crappy style of basketball but he is a fantastic coach. His ability to have his teams dictates tempo is something to marvel at. Watching his teams is about as much fun as watching paint dry but because of that style he doesn't get great players.

Jamie Dixon is an interesting case because he just can't win in the Tourney. I guess you could compare him to Pastner in that way. Win big in the regular season, get in the tourney and then fail miserably.

Scott Drew is at Baylor. No one cares about Baylor. Hard to be an underachiever in that environment.

I have always wondered about JT3. I don't think he is a great coach but he isn't a bad coach either. I kind of think his teams lose when they should. The Tourney committee sometimes makes them a higher seed than they should because they are Georgetown.

I think Tubby is a good coach. He doesn't get the talent at Minnesota that he did at Kentucky and really, he should have done better recruiting at Kentucky overall. I think he is a below average recruiter but a pretty good coach.

I mentioned Lavin earlier. I think he is the most overrated coach in America. ESPN pumps him up because he worked for them. I don't know why any kid would want to play for him.

As for Calipari, the guy has won everywhere he has been. I don't like him but it is hard to call him a poor coach. He put himself in a situation by recruiting the best kids where if they win, it is because of the kids and if they lose it is because of the coaching. A lose-lose situation if there ever was one. I think he is an A+ recruiter (obviously) and a B or B+ coach. That's still a pretty darn good combo.

 

[JumpinJack5]

Yeah, you're right, it was lazy and stupid on my part. I forgot to mention that Mick didn't have any NCAA sanctions when he came here.

On one hand there's Mick, who we are constantly making excuses for and who everyone pretends is doing a better job than he really is. On the other hand you have Josh Pastner who's been to 3 NCAA's in 4 seasons yet he's being used as the example of a coach who underachieves?

It's comical really, Mick goes to the NCAA's and he's a God and everyone argues that fans should just be happy with that because we're little old UC and we're not a big deal. Yet here's a guy who's at Memphis and has been to 3 NCAA's in his first 4 years and the same people who make the Mick argument are calling him an underachiever?

I do love it though, the delusional posters on this board keep me entertained.

It helps that he can constantly get 5 star players without having to lift a finger because of the Memphis brand Coach Cal built. They also have an almost brand new arena and nothing else in town to compete with. Mick came in with nothing and had to win with inferior talent in a superior league. How many Sweet 16s does Josh Pastner have? With the talent and weak conference they are in, they should make the sweet 16 consistently, I guarantee if Mick had that talent he would.

 

[Bcatfollower]

I like how all the people who have said player rankings or stars and recruiting class rankings dont mean anything are quick to use those same rankings as a basis to say a coach is under achieving.

 

[TheLongHaul]

Calapari just won a national championship. Bo Ryan has made the NCAA's for 12 straight years. People that live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones, this conversation is a complete joke.

Thanks in large part to you.

 

[ME80]

Calapari just won a national championship. Bo Ryan has made the NCAA's for 12 straight years. People that live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones, this conversation is a complete joke.

I think the sad joke is that we are going down the same road again and again and again.

 

[Bearcatboy]

I think the sad joke is that we are going down the same road again and again and again.

Every discussion any more turns into fighting because of one person can someone please do something about this or we will never be able to talk about anything.

 

[Gotcha23]

I was thinking about coaches like Josh Pastner who seem to be able to recruit top talent and yet do nothing with it. Why do you think top 100 recruits continue to go to play for coaches like this?

Are there other coaches you'd through in that mix? Maybe Jamie Dixon? I'd be interested in hearing your thoughts on this.

What is Pastner like 30 years old??? Kids want to play for "cool" coaches. Pastner has an absolute stud coming next year. I'll wait to judge him until he gets older.

 

[Patrick Bateman]

Calapari just won a national championship. Bo Ryan has made the NCAA's for 12 straight years. People that live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones, this conversation is a complete joke.

I was going off a recent article in Bleacher report. Nobody brought up Boeheim and he is #2 on this list.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/...-most-overrated-coaches-in-college-basketball

I was also making a point that the #1 recruiting class 4 years in a row could only get Calipari to lose to the WORST team in the NIT. Think about that, that is like Alabama not making a BCS bowl and losing to Applachian State ie. would never happen to a good coach, hell even a decent coach could get them to the NCAA's, not Cal, he made excuses that they were uncoachable.

 

[mplebanon]

Calapari just won a national championship. Bo Ryan has made the NCAA's for 12 straight years. People that live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones, this conversation is a complete joke.

Anybody believing Calipari is a good coach because he won a national championship is a joke.

Great recruiter. Mediocre to bad strategist.

Face it, my dog could have coached that team to a national championship. Maybe even a hamster could have.

 

[cincycpaw]

Who here isn't aware that recruiting is a major part of a coach's job at the collegiate level?

Then you can't ignore it when evaluating coaches.

This is a really silly argument.

 

[coachpipe]

Who here isn't aware that recruiting is a major part of a coach's job at the collegiate level?

Then you can't ignore it when evaluating coaches.

This is a really silly argument.

But I think the argument is what if you can recruit all the best players but then cant proceed to win with the "best of the best"...would you be considered a good coach or a good recruiter? Because I would view them as two seperate categories. There are coaches that can sweet talk players and their families(that is essentially all recruiting is imo) and then there are coaches that take those players and turn them into a TEAM.

Look at places like VCU and Butler. They didnt have the recruiting classes or the talent coming in, but the coach knew what he had and made it work. He may not have been the best recruiter but he knows the X's and O's of the game and can outsmart the other coach.

To me, someone like Lavin is this to a T. He has always been a GREAT recruiter(but how and what does he bring to the table) and then when he gets the talent on his roster they seem to never get it together.

How does someone like Calipari manage to not win in a down SEC year who just got the #1 recruiting class and had 2 players go in the first round? He had all the talent in the world and couldnt COACH them to the tourny or atleast to a win over an awful Robert Morris team.

 

[bearcat jeff]

But I think the argument is what if you can recruit all the best players but then cant proceed to win with the "best of the best"...would you be considered a good coach or a good recruiter? Because I would view them as two seperate categories. There are coaches that can sweet talk players and their families(that is essentially all recruiting is imo) and then there are coaches that take those players and turn them into a TEAM.

Look at places like VCU and Butler. They didnt have the recruiting classes or the talent coming in, but the coach knew what he had and made it work. He may not have been the best recruiter but he knows the X's and O's of the game and can outsmart the other coach.

To me, someone like Lavin is this to a T. He has always been a GREAT recruiter(but how and what does he bring to the table) and then when he gets the talent on his roster they seem to never get it together.

How does someone like Calipari manage to not win in a down SEC year who just got the #1 recruiting class and had 2 players go in the first round? He had all the talent in the world and couldnt COACH them to the tourny or atleast to a win over an awful Robert Morris team.

I think this pretty much sums up what I wanted the spirit of the thread to be.

 

[cincycpaw]

I think this pretty much sums up what I wanted the spirit of the thread to be.

You can't separate them though, imo.

 

[JasonS]

You can't separate them though, imo.

Sure you can. You can still be a great basketball player without being a great defensive player. Someone can be a great recruiter and average sideline coach or vice versa.