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4 Reds in the All-Star game isn't bad...but if you would have told me that Mesoraco and Frazier made the All Star team at the beginning of the year I would have thought for sure the Reds would be in 1st place.

No Seager NTS? Whats that all about?
 
jacobkdoyle said:
4 Reds in the All-Star game isn't bad...but if you would have told me that Mesoraco and Frazier made the All Star team at the beginning of the year I would have thought for sure the Reds would be in 1st place.
No Seager NTS? Whats that all about?
Click to expand...

I thought the same exact thing. This team has underachieved. With our pitching staff doing what it's doing and Frazier and Mesoraco stepping it up big time this year we should be much better than we are. Votto has underwhelmed to say the least and Bruce laid an egg the first two months of the season. This team still has a chance to go on a run and with the rest of the NL Central and wild-card contenders not really lighting a fire themselves there's no reason to think the playoffs aren't still a real possibility. More to your point though about Mesoraco and Frazier, I think they were both X-factors this year. I thought Frazier after a sophomore slump of sorts maybe had the tools to have a good year. When you look at the production we've gotten out of the catcher's slot the last few years and the prospect of Mesoraco being a legit offensive threat, we've gotten a serious upgrade at that position. Not to mention that Hamilton has really produced and he was a big question mark. It amazes me we've been shut out as much as we have offensively. Even Phillips is having a typical Phillips year, which I will gladly take. The two holes as compared to the last two years are Bruce and Votto. Bruce has come around the last few weeks. We need Votto to come around and be productive. No more two-hole crap and hopefully he gets off the DL healthy. We are paying him upwards of $20 million and will for many years to come. .255 ain't cutting it, especially with no power numbers to back it up.
 
david aka the TYZ said:
I thought the same exact thing. This team has underachieved. With our pitching staff doing what it's doing and Frazier and Mesoraco stepping it up big time this year we should be much better than we are. Votto has underwhelmed to say the least and Bruce laid an egg the first two months of the season. This team still has a chance to go on a run and with the rest of the NL Central and wild-card contenders not really lighting a fire themselves there's no reason to think the playoffs aren't still a real possibility. More to your point though about Mesoraco and Frazier, I think they were both X-factors this year. I thought Frazier after a sophomore slump of sorts maybe had the tools to have a good year. When you look at the production we've gotten out of the catcher's slot the last few years and the prospect of Mesoraco being a legit offensive threat, we've gotten a serious upgrade at that position. Not to mention that Hamilton has really produced and he was a big question mark. It amazes me we've been shut out as much as we have offensively. Even Phillips is having a typical Phillips year, which I will gladly take. The two holes as compared to the last two years are Bruce and Votto. Bruce has come around the last few weeks. We need Votto to come around and be productive. No more two-hole crap and hopefully he gets off the DL healthy. We are paying him upwards of $20 million and will for many years to come. .255 ain't cutting it, especially with no power numbers to back it up.
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Good post. I agree with everything you're saying. Even more frustrated with Bruce. Before Monday he was 0-26. He has been horrid. He still is only batting like .236.

Ever since Votto was MVP he has been extremely disappointing. Especially this year. Its crazy how much money the Reds are wasting this year on Bruce, Votto and even Bailey isn't worth the $$ he is making.

The reds will never have true success til they get serious on offense. Career .240 hitters won't cut it. No matter how awesome your pitching is.
 
Congrats to Frazier for being picked for the HR Derby...is he the first Reds player in it since Griffey?
 
Thankfully Seager got in to replace former red Edwin Encarnacion. Mariners with 3 All-Stars with Rodney's leading 26 saves slightly snubbed. We got a BIG series coming up with the Oakland A's this weekend.
 
UCalum08 said:
Good post. I agree with everything you're saying. Even more frustrated with Bruce. Before Monday he was 0-26. He has been horrid. He still is only batting like .236.

Ever since Votto was MVP he has been extremely disappointing. Especially this year. Its crazy how much money the Reds are wasting this year on Bruce, Votto and even Bailey isn't worth the $$ he is making.

The reds will never have true success til they get serious on offense. Career .240 hitters won't cut it. No matter how awesome your pitching is.
Click to expand...

Bruce will always be a very streaky .265-.270 hitter with power and honestly, that's fine with me. His first two months were awful, but he has definitely come around after the DL stint.

I've accepted that Votto will never be the same player. I hope he is, but it looks like his knee will continue to give him trouble. Yeah it sucks how much we are paying him, but you can't hold that against an injured player (at least I won't). Anyone who has ever had a long term sports injury knows how much he wants to be out there. Unless the Reds honestly sit him for the rest of the year, they can expect the same average numbers.

Mesoraco, Frazier, and Hamilton have just been outstanding; no other way to put it. Starters have been great, and our bullpen seems to be remembering how to pitch like last year.

These guys seem to have a special feel about them. I'm not saying World Series or pennant, but they are playing really good baseball the last six weeks (save San Diego) and can definitely make some noise the rest of the season. The Pirates bullpen is garbage, St. Louis can't score any runs, and we seem to have the Brewer's number so far and they are stumbling into the All-Star break. 72 games left in the season; anything can happen. Go Bearcats!
 
The Reds will never win anything important as long as Brian Price is manager, He's awful. I can barely pull myself together to watch the Reds. When you say publicly that you like playing your bench and you have one of the worst benches in baseball, when you take your best hitter out of the lineup every 5th day to make Johnny Cueto happy, and publicly say you are not managing the teams resources well, hire a third base coach that can't direct traffic and allow for lousy performances day after day with no consequences, this team has absolutely no chance of winning anything next year or in the near future with this coach!!!
 
You can barely watch a team bc of their manager? Bryan Price (or any manager) doesn't make that much of an impact. They went 76-86 last year. So I hate to break it to you, but no manager in history would've taken the 2014 Reds to the playoffs. The problems run much deep than that.
 
There's a trade rumor floating around on Bruce to San Diego. At this point I'd take about anything for him to get him off the books. Ideally I'd like a young bat that has legit major league potential and an arm ready to make an impact in the bullpen. Why San Diego of all teams would want a guy that hit .217 last year and bring him to the worst hitting field in the majors is beyond me, but I'd gladly deal him to them. I will say the Reds don't need to make the same mistake with Bruce they made with Phillips. You don't publically shop a player and then end up not dealing him.

I'm a huge baseball fan. I'm very curious as to what the Reds do in the near future. They are stuck with Votto. I don't think anyone will touch his contract. They need to hope he can come back and be healthy and hit .300 again. If he can do that, and I think he can, then he can still be a productive bat in the line-up, albeit way overpayed. Mesoraco and Frazier look to be good young players that can produce. That gives the Reds a solid 3-4-5 going forward or 3-5-6 if they can add a power bat. Hamilton is here to stay I think although I'm not a fan of players that can't hit for average at the top of the line-up. Speed is great but you have to get on base to utilize it. I think Phillips is here to stay as I don't think anyone wants his contract. If Bruce is shoppable I deal him and use that money to get a bona fide bat in the outfield. Bruce's numbers are just abysmal and he's at the stage of his career where the learning curve is over. I just don't see him ever being a good hitter. And if his power disappears he's worthless. I do love his glove though. I think Cozart is here to stay as well and honestly I'm fine with that. He's got a good glove and historically you can afford a low hitting shortstop if he provides defense. Although he needs to muster bare minimum .240. Stick him in the 8 hole and he can give you some production without being in the heart of the order and hurting you. The big question mark to me is left field and if you deal Bruce right field becomes a question mark too. Also Hamilton has to hit better than .250/.292 OBP. That doesn't cut it. Unfortunately I think that's what he is. 56 SB's is great but honestly it doesn't make up for a .250 average in my opinion. Our pitching is a strength, although the bullpen needs some suring up. So we have, have, have to get a bat and if they deal Bruce then two bats. With Bailey making as much as he is I think the Reds can afford to keep only one of Cueto and Latos. I think it's a no-brainer to keep Cueto. Not only is he a better pitcher, he's not a head-case. Honestly I'd rather trade Bailey if they could and sign Latos, but I think Latos is better trade bait as he is cheaper and his numbers are better. Bailey has two no-hitters terribly over-inflating his value in my opinion. Don't get me wrong two no-hitters is not a fluke and it shows you are not only mentally tough but you have good stuff. But at the end of the day that is two games over a course of the last three seasons where the rest of his 100 or so starts don't reflect a $20 million pitcher to me. Regardless, I think one of the pitchers has to be dealt in order to get that bona fide bat they desperately need.

As far as Price is concerned, I'm not a fan. I think a coach gets too much flack for in-game decisions. It's easy to second guess a pitching move or non-move. Bottom line to me is when your number is called you need to go in and produce. Although I will agree that him sitting players certain days I have scratched my head on, most in particular when Mesoraco is out of the line-up he should never give Frazier the day off as well. The third base coach was fired, so at least he saw that needed to be changed. What I do think a coach makes an impact is in that thing called team chemistry. A good healthy team chemistry is the difference between winning and losing on a team like the Reds and for a great team with great players the difference in underacheiving or winning championships. Most people hated Baker but he took a mediocre roster and good pitching and won over 90 games with them. Price took essentially the same team and won 76 games. You can argue Votto's injury had alot to do with it, but two years prior he missed a couple months and the Reds didn't miss a beat with Ludwick of all people stepping up. This team did not come out day-to-day with the same intensity last year as they did in year's prior. That I blame on the manager. People say Baker couldn't win the big game, but honestly their line-up wasn't built to win a World Series and still isn't. He took a good Giants team to a game 7 of the World Series and that was with the games biggest head case on it. I think changing a manager who won with a team and not changing the team itself was a mistake. They made the decision to stay status quo with the line-up, so they should've kept the man at the helm that won with that team. I honestly think they feared they would lose Price had they not promoted him and thus they did what they did. At any rate Baker is gone and Price is here. The brass needs to regroup and recoup some of the money it spent on big contracts. Trading Broxton was a great step in that direction and trading Bruce would be another. I'm really bummed about Bruce tanking it last year because I hoped he would be a solid power bat. But I think today he has trade value, another year like last year and he will be untradable and that is the gamble the Reds have to decide on.

Another note, which I think will never happen, the Reds need to find a way to deepen the outfield in GABP. Their stadium will give up some cheap home runs but will not give up cheap hits. The outfield is tiny. I've seen first hand the spaciousness of Coors Field and Comerica Park and hits just drop in those outfields. I don't want to go to that extreme but I think moving the fences back even 5-10 feet and maybe creating a power alley where the bullpen is would make alot of difference. I think the Reds abysmal batting average and very healthy pitching numbers is a direct reflection that GABP is a pitcher's park.
 
Nice thoughts David. I wouldn't mind Bruce getting traded. I also read that we could look to deal any of Cueto, Latos, Leake or Simon this offseason. I personally would be reluctant to sign Cueto to a long term deal bc I worry about him staying healthy and in shape once he isn't pitching to have an option picked up or doesn't have free agency pending. Plus he would get us a lot back in a trade. So I would try to move him. I also saw that we may go after Nori Aoki and Michael Morse for LF...but that confuses me a little bc Aoki hits lefties better even though he bats left, so idk about that. I think the Reds overall are kind of stuck though bc of those deals for Votto, Phillips and Bailey. If they can't figure out a way to improve the lineup and bullpen, they're going to end up getting passed up by the Cubs.
 
I'd sign Cueto if you can. He really has only been injured once and it kind of hung around an entire year. More than likely they rushed him back trying to have him for the start of the year. He came back strong this year and had one of the best years ever for a Reds pitcher. Honestly I think injury is a concern for any pitcher. Pitchers today twist and turn their arms so much to get extra speed and movement on their balls its only a matter of time for someone to get hurt. No pitcher goes his whole career without getting hurt anymore. I think it's just silly not to try to sign your best pitcher in favor of a lesser pitcher. As far as money is concerned, the money in baseball is getting ridiculous. I think these owners are anticipating bigger TV deals coming forward. The Dodgers already got their insane TV deal to basically where they have an open checkbook. The Reds are up for a new deal soon. Who's to say that in three years or so the Reds might can afford a $150 million payroll? But you are right, Leake and Simon have some trade value, too. They have Stephenson lurking down in the minors and that Cuban kid they signed. Cingrani could probably be packaged in a deal, too. The Reds need to be aggressive in going after some bats and reshaping their line-up.
 
david aka the TYZ said:
There's a trade rumor floating around on Bruce to San Diego. At this point I'd take about anything for him to get him off the books. Ideally I'd like a young bat that has legit major league potential and an arm ready to make an impact in the bullpen. Why San Diego of all teams would want a guy that hit .217 last year and bring him to the worst hitting field in the majors is beyond me, but I'd gladly deal him to them. I will say the Reds don't need to make the same mistake with Bruce they made with Phillips. You don't publically shop a player and then end up not dealing him.

I'm a huge baseball fan. I'm very curious as to what the Reds do in the near future. They are stuck with Votto. I don't think anyone will touch his contract. They need to hope he can come back and be healthy and hit .300 again. If he can do that, and I think he can, then he can still be a productive bat in the line-up, albeit way overpayed. Mesoraco and Frazier look to be good young players that can produce. That gives the Reds a solid 3-4-5 going forward or 3-5-6 if they can add a power bat. Hamilton is here to stay I think although I'm not a fan of players that can't hit for average at the top of the line-up. Speed is great but you have to get on base to utilize it. I think Phillips is here to stay as I don't think anyone wants his contract. If Bruce is shoppable I deal him and use that money to get a bona fide bat in the outfield. Bruce's numbers are just abysmal and he's at the stage of his career where the learning curve is over. I just don't see him ever being a good hitter. And if his power disappears he's worthless. I do love his glove though. I think Cozart is here to stay as well and honestly I'm fine with that. He's got a good glove and historically you can afford a low hitting shortstop if he provides defense. Although he needs to muster bare minimum .240. Stick him in the 8 hole and he can give you some production without being in the heart of the order and hurting you. The big question mark to me is left field and if you deal Bruce right field becomes a question mark too. Also Hamilton has to hit better than .250/.292 OBP. That doesn't cut it. Unfortunately I think that's what he is. 56 SB's is great but honestly it doesn't make up for a .250 average in my opinion. Our pitching is a strength, although the bullpen needs some suring up. So we have, have, have to get a bat and if they deal Bruce then two bats. With Bailey making as much as he is I think the Reds can afford to keep only one of Cueto and Latos. I think it's a no-brainer to keep Cueto. Not only is he a better pitcher, he's not a head-case. Honestly I'd rather trade Bailey if they could and sign Latos, but I think Latos is better trade bait as he is cheaper and his numbers are better. Bailey has two no-hitters terribly over-inflating his value in my opinion. Don't get me wrong two no-hitters is not a fluke and it shows you are not only mentally tough but you have good stuff. But at the end of the day that is two games over a course of the last three seasons where the rest of his 100 or so starts don't reflect a $20 million pitcher to me. Regardless, I think one of the pitchers has to be dealt in order to get that bona fide bat they desperately need.

As far as Price is concerned, I'm not a fan. I think a coach gets too much flack for in-game decisions. It's easy to second guess a pitching move or non-move. Bottom line to me is when your number is called you need to go in and produce. Although I will agree that him sitting players certain days I have scratched my head on, most in particular when Mesoraco is out of the line-up he should never give Frazier the day off as well. The third base coach was fired, so at least he saw that needed to be changed. What I do think a coach makes an impact is in that thing called team chemistry. A good healthy team chemistry is the difference between winning and losing on a team like the Reds and for a great team with great players the difference in underacheiving or winning championships. Most people hated Baker but he took a mediocre roster and good pitching and won over 90 games with them. Price took essentially the same team and won 76 games. You can argue Votto's injury had alot to do with it, but two years prior he missed a couple months and the Reds didn't miss a beat with Ludwick of all people stepping up. This team did not come out day-to-day with the same intensity last year as they did in year's prior. That I blame on the manager. People say Baker couldn't win the big game, but honestly their line-up wasn't built to win a World Series and still isn't. He took a good Giants team to a game 7 of the World Series and that was with the games biggest head case on it. I think changing a manager who won with a team and not changing the team itself was a mistake. They made the decision to stay status quo with the line-up, so they should've kept the man at the helm that won with that team. I honestly think they feared they would lose Price had they not promoted him and thus they did what they did. At any rate Baker is gone and Price is here. The brass needs to regroup and recoup some of the money it spent on big contracts. Trading Broxton was a great step in that direction and trading Bruce would be another. I'm really bummed about Bruce tanking it last year because I hoped he would be a solid power bat. But I think today he has trade value, another year like last year and he will be untradable and that is the gamble the Reds have to decide on.

Another note, which I think will never happen, the Reds need to find a way to deepen the outfield in GABP. Their stadium will give up some cheap home runs but will not give up cheap hits. The outfield is tiny. I've seen first hand the spaciousness of Coors Field and Comerica Park and hits just drop in those outfields. I don't want to go to that extreme but I think moving the fences back even 5-10 feet and maybe creating a power alley where the bullpen is would make alot of difference. I think the Reds abysmal batting average and very healthy pitching numbers is a direct reflection that GABP is a pitcher's park.
Click to expand...
David couldn't disagree with you more. First off the Reds aren't shopping Bruce the Padres have inquired about him for exactly the reason you mentioned. He is a good outfielder coming off a down year quite possibly due to injury who historically gives you GG defense with 30 bombs and 90-100 rbi's.He is also team controlled for two more years and a affordable contract given his production. It would be a classic case of the Reds selling low on a player. It won't and shouldn't happen. What the Reds should do is get a bull pen arm a one year rental for LF in free agency. Possibly Tori Hunter . LF will be manned by either Y- Rod or Jesse Winker very soon but both need another year of seasoning in minors. I don't do anything else until trade deadline and if the team is out of the race I unload players. If I can ink Cueto I do it. The Reds have good starting pitching depth in minors with Stephenson,Lorenzen,Lively and Moscot. Trading Bruce is not the fix for this team. Getting healthy and Bruce and Votto producing to the back of there baseball cards would help a lot. Those two getting back to normal added to Frazier and Mesoraco with this starting rotation will go along way toward turning things around. Again get a bull pen arm and a one year rental for LF and see where you are at deadline.
 
jacobkdoyle said:
Nice thoughts David. I wouldn't mind Bruce getting traded. I also read that we could look to deal any of Cueto, Latos, Leake or Simon this offseason. I personally would be reluctant to sign Cueto to a long term deal bc I worry about him staying healthy and in shape once he isn't pitching to have an option picked up or doesn't have free agency pending. Plus he would get us a lot back in a trade. So I would try to move him. I also saw that we may go after Nori Aoki and Michael Morse for LF...but that confuses me a little bc Aoki hits lefties better even though he bats left, so idk about that. I think the Reds overall are kind of stuck though bc of those deals for Votto, Phillips and Bailey. If they can't figure out a way to improve the lineup and bullpen, they're going to end up getting passed up by the Cubs.
Click to expand...
The best way for them to help their line up is get healthy.
 
WAITE HOYT 2 said:
David couldn't disagree with you more. First off the Reds aren't shopping Bruce the Padres have inquired about him for exactly the reason you mentioned. He is a good outfielder coming off a down year quite possibly due to injury who historically gives you GG defense with 30 bombs and 90-100 rbi's.He is also team controlled for two more years and a affordable contract given his production. It would be a classic case of the Reds selling low on a player. It won't and shouldn't happen. What the Reds should do is get a bull pen arm a one year rental for LF in free agency. Possibly Tori Hunter . LF will be manned by either Y- Rod or Jesse Winker very soon but both need another year of seasoning in minors. I don't do anything else until trade deadline and if the team is out of the race I unload players. If I can ink Cueto I do it. The Reds have good starting pitching depth in minors with Stephenson,Lorenzen,Lively and Moscot. Trading Bruce is not the fix for this team. Getting healthy and Bruce and Votto producing to the back of there baseball cards would help a lot. Those two getting back to normal added to Frazier and Mesoraco with this starting rotation will go along way toward turning things around. Again get a bull pen arm and a one year rental for LF and see where you are at deadline.
Click to expand...

The reds are listening on Bruce because they need to cut payroll and no one is going to take Phillips (10-5) rights, Votto crazy contract, bailey crazy contract. Bruce is the only one who can be traded the is owed a good amount of money. For example you can trade Bruce to Padres for Ross (sp) and torres (rp) and put Ross in rotation and Torres in bullpen then trade leake or latos to Boston for cespedes for one year till Winker is ready and sign hunter to a 2 or 3 year deal to man right field. All of this saves money for now to extend cueto, worry about the future when you get the tv money.
 
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No way SD would give up Tyson Ross in that trade. He is their best pitcher. Plus, they are in on that Cuban guy and Sandoval too, so I think they think they're ready to compete. We'd likely get a prospect for Bruce if we get a SP back. I haven't heard much about Melky Cabrera...he'd be a great signing imo but I'd gladly take Torii Hunter too.
 
Yeah I don't think the reds move a bat to get starting pitching. But I do believe if they can deal Bruce they will. I've heard the cespedes rumors too. I wouldn't trade a pitcher to rent a power hitter for a year. Especially one that hits .240. If we move a young arm it has to be for someone with long term plans. We aren't in a position to win right now so renting players is pointless.

And Waite I don't think dealing Bruce solves their problems I just think it's necessary to rebuild. It would be one of two or three moves to get them to a point where they are ready to compete. I agree that getting votto healthy is necessary and will help, but the rest of their hitting problems aren't due to health issues. Phillips no longer is a speed or power guy. Bruce has never hit for average and while he still has pop his eye for the ball is not what it should be to consider him a long term plug into the middle of the lineup. And as I stated before if he tanks another year he will be untradable. If I were a betting man I'd venture to guess this year he is closer to his .217 and 18 bombs from last year than he will be to .250ish and 30 bombs that he hit the previous few years. And even if he does get to those numbers, that doesnt make him a superstar. If you can move him I think you do. His numbers can be replaced.
 
Bearcatboy said:
The reds are listening on Bruce because they need to cut payroll and no one is going to take Phillips (10-5) rights, Votto crazy contract, bailey crazy contract. Bruce is the only one who can be traded the is owed a good amount of money. For example you can trade Bruce to Padres for Ross (sp) and torres (rp) and put Ross in rotation and Torres in bullpen then trade leake or latos to Boston for cespedes for one year till Winker is ready and sign hunter to a 2 or 3 year deal to man right field. All of this saves money for now to extend cueto, worry about the future when you get the tv money.
Click to expand...
Hunter is 40 they are not giving him multiple years
 

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