Season Updates

[waterhead]

The majority of players we are discussing are freshmen and sophomores with very limited experience and practice for that matter. Call it an excuse or whatever you want, but if you don’t get experience or get to practice, it’s going to take longer to improve or get better. Don’t see how anyone could disagree with that.

We all want these guys to come in and be great but the majority of the time that doesn’t happen here. It’s odd that we all the sudden expect it to happen now.

I really hope Harvey has seen what impact he can have on this team and has been working his tail off in the gym since play stopped. We need that kid to put his heart and soul into his game and work ethic. Hell he needs it too if he has higher aspirations.

Most of the guys on the team have that natural motivation built in but it seems like it takes some pushing for Harvey.

I agree on the under classmen. Mikey is going to be very good when the game slows down for him. Eason has a ceiling that has star written all over. Looks like it could take Gabe a couple years to adjust to the speed...but when he does...he's gonna be great (on offense). Davenport clearly worked on his shot. He could be really really good if he can do the same thing with his ball skills. MAW is gonna be a solid role player. Mason who knows but in very limited initial action he looked better than I expected. If he can be great at 3 and D he can have a big role.

Too early to tell on most of this stuff...but some fans have it all figured out already

 

[Bearcat_Z]

Too early to tell on most of this stuff...but some fans have it all figured out already

. . . in their minds . . .

 

[waterhead]

I appreciate Justin's takes, yes I get that there are many who are still in wait and see mode. But Brannen has done plenty that deserves criticism and it seems many want to see only rainbows.

I don't think there are a lot of people that only see rainbows. There are some who prefer to talk about the rainbows and there are some who prefer to talk about the rain.

Most (if not all) fans are concerned right now. I am concerned. But I also realize things can change and given enough time they either will or won't. I was the exact same way with Cronin as I am with Brannen. It's not to soon to criticize but it's too soon to draw final conclusions IMO.

Cronin would get good results and talk about how the pace was going to be speeding up almost every year. Hell...I believe him almost every year. But his recruiting philosophy meant that he would only have about 6-7 players he could trust on the floor. You can't speed up the game like that. I thought eventually he would get some March results. Well...it didn't happen. I told people to relax all the time. He had 12 years...and still at the end I was 50-50 on moving on or not.

Well he is gone now. IMO you have to give a coach at least the time it takes for him to get some seniors before you yank the cord. Now if we totally suck next year then there has to be a scenario where it's acceptable to yank the cord earlier. Brannen has a good track record. He is a very smart guy. My opinion is he will get this thing adjusted and moving in the right direction. But I could be wrong...and book smarts don't guarantee any success in BB coaching. There are so many other variables like communication, teaching and discipline, etc that go into it.

All I ask is to give the guy a fair shake. Criticize him but stay behind him. All the negativity can affect recruiting and fan excitement effectively helping to fulfill a prophecy nobody wants.

 

[waterhead]

. . . in their minds . . .

If the AD could only hire a couple of these guys to coach the team we would be National Champs in under 3 years. These guys watch a lot of BB by the way. Some of them will point that out to the AD on their resume.

It's all good. There has to be a ying and yang I get that. I learn stuff that I don't want to hear sometimes. You can learn a lot more from a different opinion than the same opinion. I just don't want to be hammered with the same different opinion in every other post. I got it the first time...and if I didn't get it by the 2nd or 3rd time...I won't get it the 4th or 5th time.

 

[cincyguy13]

I don't think there are a lot of people that only see rainbows. There are some who prefer to talk about the rainbows and there are some who prefer to talk about the rain.

Most (if not all) fans are concerned right now. I am concerned. But I also realize things can change and given enough time they either will or won't. I was the exact same way with Cronin as I am with Brannen. It's not to soon to criticize but it's too soon to draw final conclusions IMO.

Cronin would get good results and talk about how the pace was going to be speeding up almost every year. Hell...I believe him almost every year. But his recruiting philosophy meant that he would only have about 6-7 players he could trust on the floor. You can't speed up the game like that. I thought eventually he would get some March results. Well...it didn't happen. I told people to relax all the time. He had 12 years...and still at the end I was 50-50 on moving on or not.

Well he is gone now. IMO you have to give a coach at least the time it takes for him to get some seniors before you yank the cord. Now if we totally suck next year then there has to be a scenario where it's acceptable to yank the cord earlier. Brannen has a good track record. He is a very smart guy. My opinion is he will get this thing adjusted and moving in the right direction. But I could be wrong...and book smarts don't guarantee any success in BB coaching. There are so many other variables like communication, teaching and discipline, etc that go into it.

All I ask is to give the guy a fair shake. Criticize him but stay behind him. All the negativity can affect recruiting and fan excitement effectively helping to fulfill a prophecy nobody wants.

Agree with all this. There isn’t one fan that isn’t concerned. Some of us just aren’t criticizing the guy for every single thing he does. Things that aren’t even his fault.

 

[waterhead]

The good thing about Brannen according to some is that when there has been player development it was the player who was responsible. When he has had a recruiting success it fell in his lap. CJB didn't even have to lift a finger. They begged him to come here.

Tre Scott would have been All American instead of only MIP and DCPOY under Cronin. Most Improved Player? Most Improved Player...MIP? Most Improved Player means the player that was most improved in the entire conference right? Am I missing something?

How many of you think Tre would have ended up the feature type player Tre ended up as under Cronin? Shooting mid range and 3 pointers? Could he have been a better DPOY? I guess so. Could he have been a more MIP player? I guess so. Did CJB task Tre with being the best rebounder in the league last year pre season? How did that turn out? Not bad thanks to Tre I guess.

Is Harvey improving? Did Davenport improve? Has Eason improved?

Did Keith improve? Well in ppg yes...because his usage is VERY high. With high usage comes decreased efficiency for most players. It happened with Cumberland as well. Did they improve or were they worse or about the same considering the usage?

Vogt? worse. MAW? About the same. Dou? about the same.

Did CJB eventually play Cumberland at point? Did he eventually cut bait on Rap? Did he eventually put Eason at the 5? Has he done most of the things the critics have been asking? Will he adjust his recruiting at the 5? Probably not.

 

[waterhead]

To be the MIP in a conference you MUST have improved by leaps and bounds. And by vote basically more than any other player or impact player.

I had Davenport scheduled as a 5 mpg guy this year. I do not think I am alone on this island. He is now 4th in MPG. That is leaps and bounds.

These are not just improving players. They have made massive improvements.

I would argue most other players are very similar to what they were other than Vogt. So I basically see one obvious regression right now.

 

[waterhead]

The question of why is Cumberland not playing point guard was addressed. The questions about Rap and Vogt playing together was addressed. The question about either Rap OR Vogt starting was addressed. Even if it didn't come fast enough it came.

We have had some recruiting misses and some hits. The transfer market has been pretty rough on CJB. Will he adjust? My feeling is that some fans don't think he will even though he has made some of the adjustments they were complaining about already. I believe he will probably make the adjustments. They might be later than we had hoped but at least some of them are being addressed and better late than never IMO.

Cronin did not make adjustments...it was his way or highway. Fans would not get in his way to influence his decisions. So what is it that makes the fan happy? Do you want to see the changes you are hoping for or a coach that sticks to his guns?

Brannen tries to address holes in the roster with transfers or grad transfers. Cronin would not do such a thing (at least with grads). We have missed on some but the effort was there to try. Do you want to see a coach recruit over existing players or do you want a process of veterans earning time on the court by tenure and not be recruited over?

These are valid questions. There is no single or perfect answer. Cronin's philosophy worked. Brannen's philosophy can work. For impatient fans it has to come faster...but as long as it comes I will be happy.

 

[cincyguy13]

The good thing about Brannen according to some is that when there has been player development it was the player who was responsible. When he has had a recruiting success it fell in his lap. CJB didn't even have to lift a finger. They begged him to come here.

Tre Scott would have been All American instead of only MIP and DCPOY under Cronin. Most Improved Player? Most Improved Player...MIP? Most Improved Player means the player that was most improved in the entire conference right? Am I missing something?

How many of you think Tre would have ended up the feature type player Tre ended up as under Cronin? Shooting mid range and 3 pointers? Could he have been a better DPOY? I guess so. Could he have been a more MIP player? I guess so. Did CJB task Tre with being the best rebounder in the league last year pre season? How did that turn out? Not bad thanks to Tre I guess.

Is Harvey improving? Did Davenport improve? Has Eason improved?

Did Keith improve? Well in ppg yes...because his usage is VERY high. With high usage comes decreased efficiency for most players. It happened with Cumberland as well. Did they improve or were they worse or about the same considering the usage?

Vogt? worse. MAW? About the same. Dou? about the same.

Did CJB eventually play Cumberland at point? Did he eventually cut bait on Rap? Did he eventually put Eason at the 5? Has he done most of the things the critics have been asking? Will he adjust his recruiting at the 5? Probably not.

I think improvement is on both the player and coach. The coach has to put them in the best position to succeed but the player has to put in the work. Also some people just aren’t going to improve every year.

Vogt has far exceeded my expectations since arriving. Keith has had his two best years under brannen. Is that because of brannen or experience. Probably a little of both. How many more easy layups has Keith gotten a game the last two years? At least 3-4 a game. I would think brannen had something to do with that.

Davenport has improved. Harvey has improved. Dou the same. Maw, same or worse but he’s still a sophomore. The player development seems to be fine. I never understood that criticism. It seems like people are reaching on that one.

 

[waterhead]

I think improvement is on both the player and coach. The coach has to put them in the best position to succeed but the player has to put in the work. Also some people just aren’t going to improve every year.

Vogt has far exceeded my expectations since arriving. Keith has had his two best years under brannen. Is that because of brannen or experience. Probably a little of both. How many more easy layups has Keith gotten a game the last two years? At least 3-4 a game. I would think brannen had something to do with that.

Davenport has improved. Harvey has improved. Dou the same. Maw, same or worse but he’s still a sophomore. The player development seems to be fine. I never understood that criticism.

I think the arguments about Cumberland and Williams perhaps showing regression are short sighted. They were/are the focal points of the defense now. The real issue is getting enough good players on the court so the defense can't focus on a single player. We had a very good run with Cronin 2 seed year because the defense had to factor in several players to key in on.

I see what CJB is trying to do. Can he accomplish the feat? Who knows but he is trying to create a share the load offense like Houston is offering now. That machine is working. I think the question is can he/we get there defensively? That's my main concern. We have to be good on both sides of the ball or elite on one side.

I like the idea that CJB focuses 70% of his practice on defense. Have we seen the fruits of that yet? Not really. Can we? IDK but that will be where his ultimate success or failure ends up IMO. I think he will get the offense going.

 

[cincyguy13]

I think the arguments about Cumberland and Williams perhaps showing regression are short sighted. They were/are the focal points of the defense now. The real issue is getting enough good players on the court so the defense can't focus on a single player. We had a very good run with Cronin 2 seed year because the defense had to factor in several players to key in on.

I see what CJB is trying to do. Can he accomplish the feat? Who knows but he is trying to create a share the load offense like Houston is offering now. That machine is working. I think the question is can he/we get there defensively? That's my main concern. We have to be good on both sides of the ball or elite on one side.

I like the idea that CJB focuses 70% of his practice on defense. Have we seen the fruits of that yet? Not really. Can we? IDK but that will be where his ultimate success or failure ends up IMO. I think he will get the offense going.

The main focus should be getting multiple good players. This is hard, especially at this level. Not impossible. Cronin was able to mask this issue with win totals but once we played good teams, the talent difference showed. Not saying cronin didn’t get good players but I think we would all agree, he didn’t get enough to reach that next level. That’s one reason he left. That should be brannen main focus, which I’m sure it is but it takes time. You are going to miss on most of them but it only takes a couple to say yes.

I think he’s done a solid job so far in the limited time he’s been here but he does need a star or two. Maybe Eason and Harvey are that. With limited practices for both, it’s really hard to tell at this point

 

[waterhead]

The main focus should be getting multiple good players. This is hard, especially at this level. Not impossible. Cronin was able to mask this issue with win totals but once we played good teams, the talent difference showed. Not saying cronin didn’t get good players but I think we would all agree, he didn’t get enough to reach that next level. That’s one reason he left. That should be brannen main focus, which I’m sure it is but it takes time. You are going to miss on most of them but it only takes a couple to say yes.

I think he’s done a solid job so far in the limited time he’s been here but he does need a star or two. Maybe Eason and Harvey are that. With limited practices for both, it’s really hard to tell at this point

Houston is always in attack mode. We need shooters camping but we need to attack the lane every possession. We have been bad at getting In foul trouble as teams do this to us. But we have to make the extra pass as well.

 

[skyblade]

Cronin's track record blows Brannen's out of the water right now. We all would have expected Tre to make a big leap if Cronin was still here. It was normal for most of Cronin's guys going from Junior to Senior year.

Brannen's record on player development thus far is bad. Yes, Tre Scott made the leap he was expected to make. But he's the only guy you can point to as making a big improvement. On the other hand look at Cumberland, Keith, Vogt or any of the transfers.

Brannen's record on transfers is horrible. Basically wasted roster spaces (and playing time) with McNeal, Sorolla and Rap. Rap was so bad that quite a few (including myself) knew he didn't belong at the 4 at this level, but for some reason Brannen couldn't see it. Vogt isn't good enough for the level either. DeJulius could become good if he could hit a three. And yes, Cumberland the only really good transfer fell into his lap.

Brannen has tried to plug holes with transfers and hurt the team doing so. Besides wasting opportunity for Diarra to develop, who else could we have on the team if not for Sorolla, McNeal, Rap and even Vogt. Sure Vogt won us some games last year, but he lost us a fair share of games last year as well. Even now when Diarra should be getting all the minutes (since Vogt is gone next year and this year is over in terms of post-season), who do you think will get on the court first?

I don't think anyone is saying it's all rainbows or all rain. But Justin focuses on the rain and that's fair, there is plenty of it. If you guys want to focus on the rainbow, that's fair to. But it seems like Justin gets a lot more grief for focusing on the rain.

Fair or not, Brannen needs to win next year. If we don't make the NCAA tournament (or at least get close), I doubt he gets a year 4. 4 years is a long time to fans when the coach before you was averaging 30 wins per season and it's possible to win without a long rebuild in college basketball.

What scares me for next year is our bigs or their lack thereof and their lack of development. Diarra, maybe he isn't a star, but how much better would he be if Brannen had given him more time over Rap and Sorolla (not to mention Vogt)? Eason, would he start on an average AAC team - he wouldn't this year. Eason has star potential, but he's not as good as freshman Gary Clark. Lahkin who looks light another big white guy who shouldn't be playing here. Brannen can try to keep plugging with transfers, but even if it works (and that's a big if considering his track record) it's only a one year fix.

That's it, even if DeJulius, Harvey, Davenport and Eason make big leaps, we are going to be hard pressed to win with our lack of depth at the 4/5. The lack of depth/development of bigs is going to hurt us years into the future. Maybe I'm a pessimist and maybe I'm looking too far in the future. But I don't see us being a top 5 AAC team or an NCAA tournament team next year.

 

[cincyguy13]

Cronin's track record blows Brannen's out of the water right now. We all would have expected Tre to make a big leap if Cronin was still here. It was normal for most of Cronin's guys going from Junior to Senior year.

Brannen's record on player development thus far is bad. Yes, Tre Scott made the leap he was expected to make. But he's the only guy you can point to as making a big improvement. On the other hand look at Cumberland, Keith, Vogt or any of the transfers.

Brannen's record on transfers is horrible. Basically wasted roster spaces (and playing time) with McNeal, Sorolla and Rap. Rap was so bad that quite a few (including myself) knew he didn't belong at the 4 at this level, but for some reason Brannen couldn't see it. Vogt isn't good enough for the level either. DeJulius could become good if he could hit a three. And yes, Cumberland the only really good transfer fell into his lap.

Brannen has tried to plug holes with transfers and hurt the team doing so. Besides wasting opportunity for Diarra to develop, who else could we have on the team if not for Sorolla, McNeal, Rap and even Vogt. Sure Vogt won us some games last year, but he lost us a fair share of games last year as well. Even now when Diarra should be getting all the minutes (since Vogt is gone next year and this year is over in terms of post-season), who do you think will get on the court first?

I don't think anyone is saying it's all rainbows or all rain. But Justin focuses on the rain and that's fair, there is plenty of it. If you guys want to focus on the rainbow, that's fair to. But it seems like Justin gets a lot more grief for focusing on the rain.

Fair or not, Brannen needs to win next year. If we don't make the NCAA tournament (or at least get close), I doubt he gets a year 4. 4 years is a long time to fans when the coach before you was averaging 30 wins per season and it's possible to win without a long rebuild in college basketball.

What scares me for next year is our bigs or their lack thereof and their lack of development. Diarra, maybe he isn't a star, but how much better would he be if Brannen had given him more time over Rap and Sorolla (not to mention Vogt)? Eason, would he start on an average AAC team - he wouldn't this year. Eason has star potential, but he's not as good as freshman Gary Clark. Lahkin who looks light another big white guy who shouldn't be playing here. Brannen can try to keep plugging with transfers, but even if it works (and that's a big if considering his track record) it's only a one year fix.

That's it, even if DeJulius, Harvey, Davenport and Eason make big leaps, we are going to be hard pressed to win with our lack of depth at the 4/5. The lack of depth/development of bigs is going to hurt us years into the future. Maybe I'm a pessimist and maybe I'm looking too far in the future. But I don't see us being a top 5 AAC team or an NCAA tournament team next year.

Basically everything positive is on cronin or the player and everything that’s negative is brannen? Got it.
Don’t mention that jarron was hurt or that the entire offense was basically given to him. Same with Keith, “here’s the offense, here’s your team, go get it”. Blame the coach for Keith not improving his ball handling In The four years he’s been here or dumb fouls.

You really haven’t seen development from Harvey or Davenport? This is what you are saying?

Focus on the rain, be negative but don’t make things up or not mention things (jarron being hurt is a big deal) to fit your narrative.

 

[skyblade]

Basically everything positive is on cronin or the player and everything that’s negative is brannen? Got it.
Don’t mention that jarron was hurt or that the entire offense was basically given to him. Same with Keith, “here’s the offense, here’s your team, go get it”. Blame the coach for Keith not improving his ball handling In The four years he’s been here or dumb fouls.

You really haven’t seen development from Harvey or Davenport? This is what you are saying?

Focus on the rain, be negative but don’t make things up or not mention things (jarron being hurt is a big deal) to fit your narrative.

Jarron was hurt as a Junior. It's not like the injury just appeared out of nowhere. The problem is Brannen came in and said we are going to do things my way (which meant McNeal starting at PG). He took 8 games (and causing us to lose multiple games because McNeal couldn't even hit a FT) to give it up. He also created an unnecessary power struggle with Jarron by doing so.

And yes, Brannen's job is to help Keith improve. It is on Brannen at least as much as it is on Keith. Guys choose coaches because they believe the coach will help them improve (and get into pro basketball).

Davenport and Harvey have improved, but again the issue is percentages. Even a terrible coach is going to have some success, some guys are going to improve in spite of a coach and it's hard to miss on every transfer (though Brannen has been trying his best).

Is Brannen's player development good enough to get us back to the top of the AAC? Thus far is doesn't look like it. For every player who improved, I can give you one who didn't. 50% player improvement is not nearly good enough. 33% quality transfers is not nearly good enough.

It's only year two, so maybe things improve. As I've said in the past, there's no single area where Brannen is so bad that it is worthy of firing (or that it can't improve). But to me the overall product is bad enough that I don't see it improving by next year. Bad transfers, poor player development, poor choice of personnel on the court, terrible depth at the 4/5 and no recruiting for next year.

 

[cincyguy13]

Jarron was hurt as a Junior. It's not like the injury just appeared out of nowhere. The problem is Brannen came in and said we are going to do things my way (which meant McNeal starting at PG). He took 8 games (and causing us to lose multiple games because McNeal couldn't even hit a FT) to give it up. He also created an unnecessary power struggle with Jarron by doing so.

And yes, Brannen's job is to help Keith improve. It is on Brannen at least as much as it is on Keith. Guys choose coaches because they believe the coach will help them improve (and get into pro basketball).

Davenport and Harvey have improved, but again the issue is percentages. Even a terrible coach is going to have some success, some guys are going to improve in spite of a coach and it's hard to miss on every transfer (though Brannen has been trying his best).

Is Brannen's player development good enough to get us back to the top of the AAC? Thus far is doesn't look like it. For every player who improved, I can give you one who didn't. 50% player improvement is not nearly good enough. 33% quality transfers is not nearly good enough.

It's only year two, so maybe things improve. As I've said in the past, there's no single area where Brannen is so bad that it is worthy of firing (or that it can't improve). But to me the overall product is bad enough that I don't see it improving by next year. Bad transfers, poor player development, poor choice of personnel on the court, terrible depth at the 4/5 and no recruiting for next year.

Keith has improved. Maybe he just isn’t nba caliber like you think he should be. Maybe you are just wrong on that one. We’ve all been wrong before. You were wrong on dou. It happens, not everyone is going to improve every year. We would love if they did but that’s not realistic. Keith had his two best years under brannen.

Vogt has exceeded everyone’s expectations. Mine included. I didn’t think he would get any production and he was pretty good for a couple months. Was that because of brannen? Should he still improve? We all know his ceiling is fairly low. How much should a guy like that improve? He’s obviously not going to be able to handle being the focal point of a defense. Did he get worse or just get more focus? Same with Keith. Are they getting worse or just too much responsibilities?

 

[justinhub2003]

Bearcats are back to practice and games should be on for @Temple

Temple is awful.

Just win

 

[justinhub2003]

Keith has improved. Maybe he just isn’t nba caliber like you think he should be. Maybe you are just wrong on that one. We’ve all been wrong before. You were wrong on dou. It happens, not everyone is going to improve every year. We would love if they did but that’s not realistic. Keith had his two best years under brannen.

Vogt has exceeded everyone’s expectations. Mine included. I didn’t think he would get any production and he was pretty good for a couple months. Was that because of brannen? Should he still improve? We all know his ceiling is fairly low. How much should a guy like that improve? He’s obviously not going to be able to handle being the focal point of a defense. Did he get worse or just get more focus? Same with Keith. Are they getting worse or just too much responsibilities?

Please show me where Keith improved, his offensive rating is down 8 points, shooting down, 2pt fg% down, free throw percentage down. Efg% down and true shooting is down.

Keith literally stayed on the same path soph to JR season efficiency wise then took a huge dip his SR year. Just like jarron, just like Vogt.

 

[justinhub2003]

MAW has regressed year over year

Literally worse in every category except free throw percentage which is negated by the fact he gets yo the line even less.

These are facts. Not rhetoric

Tough to defend

 

[coverley]

MAW has regressed year over year

Literally worse in every category except free throw percentage which is negated by the fact he gets yo the line even less.

These are facts. Not rhetoric

Tough to defend

Best regards from Bearcat Journal.