Season Updates

[waterhead]

The point I am making is not to denigrate a player or coach but there are factors that lead to less playing time or decline or lack of confidence etc. It happens under most coaches. Some improve. Some stay about the same. Some lose confidence.

Some players are more matured and ready to play as frosh and some have high ceilings but less polished coming in. This year over year thing is way too simplified. And this year is not over...well who knows...

 

[cincyguy13]

...... that’s your answer?

There is a huge difference in improving year over year vs improving so that every UC player made the nba.

Justin jenifer improved year over year
Sean kilpstrick
Jarron cumberlsnd
Gary Clark
Troy caupain


Even not sure great players improved year over year:
Kevin Johnson

And what’s even better, I can’t think of a Cronin player who significantly regressed year over year.

Like looking at UCLA’s current roster, I don’t think there is a player on the team who isn’t better than last year.

Some player progress slower, but they should always maintain where they are or get better. Brannen has guys who literally have gotten worse. I don’t think that’s a great sign

Troy caupain improved his senior year? You sure on that one.

 

[cincyguy13]

The whole argument is dumb. We are judging a coach on player development after 10 games into the second year. After a pandemic where no one can even practice. People are grasping at straws. My fault for engaging in it

 

[waterhead]

As bad as this season has been from a W-L perspective we were only blown off the court by GA. We have had some bad losses and hung with pretty good teams as well. Most games we have had a chance in the final minutes.

Obviously we need to learn how to win and that usually starts with veterans and Sr's. Keith is not really the type of Sr leader or floor general that we need to take over and Vogt is not the answer.

So we take the lumps as the under classmen increase roles and learn what it takes. Hopefully we get better and next year start out faster. By Sr year we should have some leaders on the team who understand how to win.

 

[Bcatfollower]

The whole argument is dumb. We are judging a coach on player development after 10 games into the second year. After a pandemic where no one can even practice. People are grasping at straws. My fault for engaging in it

Some people just have a negative outlook on situations. Their honest perception is that things are terrible. That leads to bias when using and interpreting data leading to the conclusion they predetermine. May be consciously or unconsciously.

Either way, only time will show who is accurate. But to argue about it endlessly is boring.

 

[cincyguy13]

Some people just have a negative outlook on situations. Their honest perception is that things are terrible. That leads to bias when using and interpreting data leading to the conclusion they predetermine. May be consciously or unconsciously.

Either way, only time will show who is accurate. But to argue about it endlessly is boring.

Agree. When things are bad, people want reasons. I don’t blame them but many times it’s the answers are complicated and not something that is easily defined

 

[TheLivingLegend]

Game tomorrow... Brannen said he expects walks ons to get minutes due to roster issues. O boy.

 

[waterhead]

Game tomorrow... Brannen said he expects walks ons to get minutes due to roster issues. O boy.

Yah...this could also be a loss. Very short on players (as few as 6 actual players). I hope it's more like 8. Then a couple walkons.

It will be interesting to find out who these players are as well. Could be Mason and Saunders. Who knows?

 

[Jon Rycek]

MAW has regressed year over year

Literally worse in every category except free throw percentage which is negated by the fact he gets yo the line even less.

These are facts. Not rhetoric

Tough to defend

So one guy, that’s rhetoric

 

[waterhead]

So one guy, that’s rhetoric

This all seems to be based on ORTG with a small sample of 10 games. If he went on a 3 game shooting hot streak his ORTG would probably be about the same. Another hot streak it would be up over last year. His FT's are better and TO's. He shot about 37% last year from 3 and this year closer to 26%.

It's hard to tell if someone regressed just because they aren't making shots at the same rate. These streaks happen in BB. MY guess is he's about the same player and quite frankly may not be capable of large scale improvement much like a guy like KJ. KJ was what he was...just good enough to get some minutes. Nothing against him...but his ceiling was low. BY the way I remember a couple years where KJ started off abysmal shooting 3's (like for 1/3 to 1/2 of a full season) only to get the average back up over the course of the season to just over 30% which still wasn't good.

Look at Harvey's last 4 games. He was around 2 for 10 from three and now is 10 for 22. His ORTG is the best on team outside of Mason. Before that 4 game stretch it was probably pretty ugly. It's just too small a sample to make conclusions from.

 

[waterhead]

But even though Harvey is now the best on team in ORTG (for significant minute contributors) the jury is still out on him, for some reason, but it's fine to draw conclusions of regression on MAW etc.

You simply cannot appear to be objective with this type of logic

 

[cincyguy13]

But even though Harvey is now the best on team in ORTG (for significant minute contributors) the jury is still out on him, for some reason, but it's fine to draw conclusions of regression on MAW etc.

You simply cannot appear to be objective with this type of logic

Logic isn’t his strength

 

[cincyguy13]

This all seems to be based on ORTG with a small sample of 10 games. If he went on a 3 game shooting hot streak his ORTG would probably be about the same. Another hot streak it would be up over last year. His FT's are better and TO's. He shot about 37% last year from 3 and this year closer to 26%.

It's hard to tell if someone regressed just because they aren't making shots at the same rate. These streaks happen in BB. MY guess is he's about the same player and quite frankly may not be capable of large scale improvement much like a guy like KJ. KJ was what he was...just good enough to get some minutes. Nothing against him...but his ceiling was low. BY the way I remember a couple years where KJ started off abysmal shooting 3's (like for 1/3 to 1/2 of a full season) only to get the average back up over the course of the season to just over 30% which still wasn't good.

Look at Harvey's last 4 games. He was around 2 for 10 from three and now is 10 for 22. His ORTG is the best on team outside of Mason. Before that 4 game stretch it was probably pretty ugly. It's just too small a sample to make conclusions from.

It’s based on whatever fits the argument. This isn’t a new move by him. When called on it, he usually says things like, “this team is great”, “brannen is perfect”, and things like that. That’s coming next

 

[itsamemario]

Keith has improved. Maybe he just isn’t nba caliber like you think he should be. Maybe you are just wrong on that one. We’ve all been wrong before. You were wrong on dou. It happens, not everyone is going to improve every year. We would love if they did but that’s not realistic. Keith had his two best years under brannen.

Vogt has exceeded everyone’s expectations. Mine included. I didn’t think he would get any production and he was pretty good for a couple months. Was that because of brannen? Should he still improve? We all know his ceiling is fairly low. How much should a guy like that improve? He’s obviously not going to be able to handle being the focal point of a defense. Did he get worse or just get more focus? Same with Keith. Are they getting worse or just too much responsibilities?

I dont think Keith has improved at all. Hes playing less because hes making stupid freshmen foul mistakes. If he gets it stolen he immediatly fouls. I think we expected him to take some sort of leap being the alpha this year (see USF game last year). But I think hes taken steps back.

Same with vogt. He exceeded everyones expectations LAST year. But so far this year hes worse than anything I could have ever expected

My post has nothing to do with brannen or cronin. Im just pointing out what im seeing out of those two players

 

[itsamemario]

Oh I can still read it and have access to all the content (or lack thereof lol)

And it’s dead over there, boring and not worth 10 bucks a month for a website that literally has zero access. Justin Williams is in deeper with CJB than brendel.

When was the last time that VIP access gave you access to anything of value? Not since the mick Cronin era. The team sucks and his access is literally not good any more. He can’t afford dissenting voices. Just state run media

PREACH. I think coryville carl (RIP) is in deeper than with CBJ than chad. But hey, some of that stuff on the board is funny. They all just believe chad at his word when he doesnt break any stories(que chad coming into this chat to talk about all the stories he breaks)

 

[cincyguy13]

I dont think Keith has improved at all. Hes playing less because hes making stupid freshmen foul mistakes. If he gets it stolen he immediatly fouls. I think we expected him to take some sort of leap being the alpha this year (see USF game last year). But I think hes taken steps back.

Same with vogt. He exceeded everyones expectations LAST year. But so far this year hes worse than anything I could have ever expected

My post has nothing to do with brannen or cronin. Im just pointing out what im seeing out of those two players

Keith is playing a completely different role. He went from essentially a role player for 3 years, to giving the keys to the team. Things change when you are the focus of the other teams defenses. Hard to tell if he’s worse or simply unable to be the main guy. Some guys just don’t have those skills.

Vogt now is exactly who I thought he was when we signed him. He was a backup for nku. I expected nothing from him. Last year he was great for 2-3 months. Teams adjusted, what’s he going to do? It’s not like he has many options. We knew he’s ceiling was low when we got him. We just see it now. I’m more surprised he was as good as he was last year.

 

[waterhead]

It’s based on whatever fits the argument. This isn’t a new move by him. When called on it, he usually says things like, “this team is great”, “brannen is perfect”, and things like that. That’s coming next

Oh yah I almost forgot. Gotta move the goal post to CJB being the GOAT or something before signing off

Can’t be any explanation in the middle

 

[waterhead]

Keith is playing a completely different role. He went from essentially a role player for 3 years, to giving the keys to the team. Things change when you are the focus of the other teams defenses. Hard to tell if he’s worse or simply unable to be the main guy. Some guys just don’t have those skills.

Vogt now is exactly who I thought he was when we signed him. He was a backup for nku. I expected nothing from him. Last year he was great for 2-3 months. Teams adjusted, what’s he going to do? It’s not like he has many options. We knew he’s ceiling was low when we got him. We just see it now. I’m more surprised he was as good as he was last year.

Vogt improved and then regressed...haha

 

[cincyguy13]

Vogt improved and then regressed...haha

He kinda did. Not sure who gets credit or blamed for that one. If I had to guess, the credit would go to cronin somehow and the blame to brannen.

 

[waterhead]

Could see some extended minutes for some frosh tonight. I don't want to lose but because we have kind of put ourselves in rebuild territory it might be a good thing to get some experience for those that might not otherwise get it.

I don't know who's playing but it would be a hell of an opportunity for guys like Mason and Mike. Even Dou would/could benefit greatly from a game like this.

I don't really want to see the walkons. But we could see them if Temple goes on the attach for foul trouble which they should if they are smart. Will be a tough game to defend if we are trying to avoid fouling.