Thoughts on Game/Fight

[cincyfan81]

Jeezus, people were upset at TU and Lyons for trash talking late in the game, saying they escalated the fight. I'm sorry, but trash talking on the court happens all the time, I'm not going to accept that as a reason for the fight.

You can't be serious, every time you type a post I realize even more how dumb you really are. Take some ownership. Most UC fans have taken ownership of the fact our players acted like fools. You on other hand just sound more and more ignorant every time you post. Tu and Lyons are definitely punks. The entire nation is pretty much saying the same thing.

 

[adrock]

Bearcat Jeff--were you this mad at Lance talking shit to Mack throughout the whole game?

I can't answer for Jeff, but I was supremely embarrassed. How about you? When Lance was talking trash did you think it was acceptable? If not you're a hypocrite. If so you may have lost sight of the fact that these athletes represent their respective universities, and have an impact on their universities' images. That, or you don't care. Either way, it speaks volumes.

 

[DontMissHim]

Yes I thought it classless and I was glad he didn't come back. Why do you guys excuse this? All the Lance talk aside, one doesn't excuse the other. Go tear a water fountain off, no suspension. Tu threw a punch last year, overlooked. I hated the rep that this school got under the Huggins years. Xavier used to conduct itself with some class.

I don't excuse it, I just want to be sure it goes both ways. Another poster didn't think Lance was at fault but Tu was classless.

I will say, Lyons stepped up at the end to calm down Gates. Not that it matters, but I thought that was good.

I don't see grounds for suspensions to Tu--at least from the A-10/NCAA. I think he could see one from Xavier.

I think Dez will be out for 3 or 4 games, but with X being in a holiday tournament, he may be suspended for the Oral Roberts game and then the whole tournament (5)

Lyons will get a 1 game suspension. Possibly 2.

Gates will probably get at least 7- he did connect on two punches.

The player who tried to stomp on Kenny will get 1 (well, he was thrown out for fighting so he will at least get 1, just like Gates and Lyons)

What do you guys see happening?

 

[adrock]

I hope (and think) Yancy and/or Cheikh will be kicked off the team but allowed to keep their scholarships to finish school. I think I also saw Kelvin Gaines swinging, so I would imagine he'll be suspended for a couple games.

As for Xavier, I think Tu will be suspended for a game or two. I think Wells and Lyons (particularly Wells) should be in deep shit. I have serious doubts that it will come to pass though. Xavier basketball now runs the University, not the other way around.

 

[bearcat jeff]

I don't excuse it, I just want to be sure it goes both ways. Another poster didn't think Lance was at fault but Tu was classless.

I will say, Lyons stepped up at the end to calm down Gates. Not that it matters, but I thought that was good.

I don't see grounds for suspensions to Tu--at least from the A-10/NCAA. I think he could see one from Xavier.

I think Dez will be out for 3 or 4 games, but with X being in a holiday tournament, he may be suspended for the Oral Roberts game and then the whole tournament (5)

Lyons will get a 1 game suspension. Possibly 2.

Gates will probably get at least 7- he did connect on two punches.

The player who tried to stomp on Kenny will get 1 (well, he was thrown out for fighting so he will at least get 1, just like Gates and Lyons)

What do you guys see happening?

To me Wells should get hit hard. If he doesn't blindside Guyn this may have never escalated to this level. Matter of fact I think his actions are the most overlooked in this whole incident. His actions started an all out brawl. I think the Tu factor comes down to what is in the UC video that has been distributed and what it shows him doing. Gates will probably see 7 games. Mbodji probably 1-2. I dont know who number 24 on X is but he is on film throwing a punch. If I was X I would look at suspending Tu and Lyons for the way they represented the university. If you're serious about cleaning this up I think you have to send a message even if it hurts.

 

[DontMissHim]

I can't answer for Jeff, but I was supremely embarrassed. How about you? When Lance was talking trash did you think it was acceptable? If not you're a hypocrite. If so you may have lost sight of the fact that these athletes represent their respective universities, and have an impact on their universities' images. That, or you don't care. Either way, it speaks volumes.

IMO- trash talk is all the same. You are completely against it, I assume? It reflects poorly on the university--you don't like when kids scream "and 1". That is a form of trash talking. Like I said before, tons of former NBA players came forward to say anything goes when trash talking after the KG incident and I agree. I understand you are completely against trash talking- you were livid at SK's comments before the game. At least, if you weren't, or you don't mind a little trash talking- then you are a hypocrite.

 

[DontMissHim]

To me Wells should get hit hard. If he doesn't blindside Guyn this may have never escalated to this level. Matter of fact I think his actions are the most overlooked in this whole incident. His actions started an all out brawl. I think the Tu factor comes down to what is in the UC video that has been distributed and what it shows him doing. Gates will probably see 7 games. Mbodji probably 1-2. I dont know who number 24 on X is but he is on film throwing a punch. If I was X I would look at suspending Tu and Lyons for the way they represented the university. If you're serious about cleaning this up I think you have to send a message even if it hurts.

Neither do I, Xavier doesn't have a 24. You could have meant Andre Walker, #54. But it appeared like he was actually holding X players back. At least from the ESPN film. (Many Xavier fans felt he was the only senior who acted like one). Regardless, I agree with everything you say. I am interested in the press conference today from Xavier.

The only thing we might differ on is what you mean by Wells getting it hard. I think 5 games sounds right, not being able to travel with the team on Christmas tournament. Are you looking for something more?

 

[bearcat jeff]

Neither do I, Xavier doesn't have a 24. You could have meant Andre Walker, #54. But it appeared like he was actually holding X players back. At least from the ESPN film. (Many Xavier fans felt he was the only senior who acted like one). Regardless, I agree with everything you say. I am interested in the press conference today from Xavier.

If that was indeed him he threw a punch.

 

[adrock]

IMO- trash talk is all the same. You are completely against it, I assume? It reflects poorly on the university--you don't like when kids scream "and 1". That is a form of trash talking. Like I said before, tons of former NBA players came forward to say anything goes when trash talking after the KG incident and I agree. I understand you are completely against trash talking- you were livid at SK's comments before the game. At least, if you weren't, or you don't mind a little trash talking- then you are a hypocrite.

There is a difference between saying someone couldn't start on your team, and yelling "put 'em in a fuckin' body bag" when you're destroying somebody, or telling the few UC fans in the audience that you'll fucking murder them. Do you not see the difference?

 

[UCalum08]

There is a difference between saying someone couldn't start on your team, and yelling "put 'em in a fuckin' body bag" when you're destroying somebody, or telling the few UC fans in the audience that you'll fucking murder them. Do you not see the difference?

Amen! I hope that video of frease going after Larry Davis's wife and daughter yelling he will kill all of them gets exposed and the NCAA sees it. The way Tu and them went in the crowd afterwards is darn right sickening! Honestly looked like ignorant gangs members celebrating after committing illegal acts. Even worse you have Chris Mack who approved it and wanted his seniors go celebrate. If that is what the president of X wants to support I am glad they were exposed nationally for everyone to see the truth behind that asylum.

 

[DontMissHim]

There is a difference between saying someone couldn't start on your team, and yelling "put 'em in a fuckin' body bag" when you're destroying somebody, or telling the few UC fans in the audience that you'll fucking murder them. Do you not see the difference?

Tell that to NBA players who say there is no difference. I am not surprised you are ok with some trash talking- just not if it gets to heavy. Upset that trash talking is too harsh....isn't that what trash talking is?

Do you get extremely pissed when a player of fan says "we just killed you"? Have you guys never said that to each other? "ah, we should kill them" Thats what Tu was saying with the body bag shit... Its just the way he said it that is bother you guys or?

 

[bearcat18]

Tell that to NBA players who say there is no difference. I am not surprised you are ok with some trash talking- just not if it gets to heavy. Upset that trash talking is too harsh....isn't that what trash talking is?

Do you get extremely pissed when a player of fan says "we just killed you"? Have you guys never said that to each other? "ah, we should kill them" Thats what Tu was saying with the body bag shit... Its just the way he said it that is bother you guys or?

Once again, this ISN'T professional basketball, buddy. HUGE difference. These kids aren't paid to play. I don't know why you keep comparing the two. I think everybody knows there's trash talking in the NBA - it's ENTERTAINMENT. This is college - like Mick said - you represent your school and fan base. You're going to school for free. Don't be a clown and grow up.

Random thoughts after reading the past few pages:

- Kelvin wasn't swinging. He had his fists up and everybody avoided him - which was a good idea. He could probably do more damage than Yancy.

- If Lyons only gets suspended 1 game then that's sad. He probably threw the most punches out of anybody and was one of the main instigators. If that's all the A-10 gives him, then Mack needs to grow a pair and for once, lay down the law.

- I, and a lot of people, have already mentioned everything Tu has done in the past, but I haven't seen anyone bring this up. Remember during the shootout last year while his team was down 15+ in the second half, he was talking trash to Cashmere when he was at the foul line...TWICE. Walking in front of a guy and talking directly to him at the free throw line when you are getting abused on the court? Jim Burr had to separate him from Cash twice, and that's flat out embarrassing...and you guessed it, Mack didn't do anything about it.

Yancy sure as hell doesn't deserve to lose his SR year because of this. And I feel bad for Chiekh. I know he made a DUMB decision and I'm sure he wishes he could take it back. But like 3 weeks ago, Mick said Cheikh was the nicest, quietest kid he's ever MET, not coached. It would suck for such a great kid to lose a significant amount of time but he does deserve a couple games.

 

[adrock]

Tell that to NBA players who say there is no difference.

1. This isn't the NBA
2. If an NBA player says it it must be true.

 

[david aka the TYZ]

Like I said, I think Tu learned that from Lance.

You really shouldn't use Lance to back up your argument that Tu and Lyons are classless. Lance shoved his girlfriend down the stairs and bashed her head in once she hit the bottom. I don't think any UC fan will defend his character on here. We are lucky he didn't do anything to give us a black eye while he was here.

 

[david aka the TYZ]

I'm not going to get into the fight per say, but I do want to comment on the aftermath and how it was handled. While Mick came out strongly, Chris Mack, Xavier, and Shannon Russell ran and hid from this. They are looking for escape routes to minimize what happened. I hope everyone remembers last season when Tu Holloway threw a punch in frustration that never landed. I hope people remember the water fountain being torn from Butler's wall when Xavier visited there. I hope they remember Crawford and Lyons talking trash to UC coaches last visit to Cintas.

This is behavior that Chris Mack has allowed to go unchecked for years. This is a perfect illustration that winning matters but so does how you win. Holloway and Lyons sounded like gang members in uniforms after the game. Tu told Shannon Russell to tweet they just put UC in an F'ing body bag. Thugs no...PUNKS yes!

Props to Mick for how he came out strongly and promised quick punishment. If this is what this game has become it is time to end it.

Well said. As a UC alum and supporter I am proud of the way Mick handled it. If I were a Xavier alum I would be upset by the way Mack has handled this team and this situation. To say "I'm not a decision maker" regarding possible suspensions is completely irresponsible. It is your job first and foremost to guide these kids into their adulthood. I think we see very clearly why Xavier has gone from one of the classiest programs to an embarrassment in such a short time. Your first "decision" should have been to keep your players from talking minutes after a brawl. I find it funny how their portion of the postgame was taken off the Xavier website. Looks like someone over there still has their head on right. Not to get into a whole Huggins debate here, but I can guess Huggins would have handled this situation less like Mick and more like Mack and that is why this UC alum was not upset to see him go. He was an embarrassment to our school and Mack is an embarrassment to X. Players are players. Both schools are going to have boneheaded players and they are going to do stupid stuff. How you handle it says alot about your school. The Huggins era let this stuff stand and right now Xavier is letting it stand. I can't imagine too many X alums want their university to represented in this way.

 

[david aka the TYZ]

As far as trash talking is concerned, I don't have too big an issue with "friendly" trash talking. Trash talking is a part of today's culture and today's game. A little back and forth is no big deal to me. I applaud the students for yelling "Who's Kilpatrick" during the game. But there is definitely a line between "friendly" trash talking and having no class. That line was crossed yesterday. The funniest thing to me is that Tu is using Kilpatrick's comments as his excuse for his behavior. For one Kilpatrick didn't say anything negative about him and he knows it. For two, he is friends with all the UC players. He attended UC games last year and chose to play on the all UC team in the summer league. I think Tu and Lyons just showed the whole world their true colors yesterday. And more importantly the NCAA and officials. I'll find it interesting to see how many whistles X gets from here forward. Refs go into games looking for things and they will have close eyes on these two players (as well as on UC). Tu's success is based on getting to the line. That alone will be the reason they could make a serious tourney run. Unfortunately for X he is no longer one of the beloved guards that gets every call that every team needs to make a deep tourney run.

 

[adrock]

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zF6fL2urgYQ"]Tu being Tu[/ame]Just got this youtube video from a thread at bearcatnews that shows that Tu started the physical altercation as well as the verbal one. Slaps Guyn in the face before Guyn raises his hand. For clarity I'm not posting this to exonerate the UC players...they should not have physically responded. This is to prove the gangsterish behavior of X's best player.

 

[JasonS]

I bet Holloway gets 1 game for his comments after the game and that's it. smh

 

[david aka the TYZ]

Tu being TuJust got this youtube video from a thread at bearcatnews that shows that Tu started the physical altercation as well as the verbal one. Slaps Guyn in the face before Guyn raises his hand. For clarity I'm not posting this to exonerate the UC players...they should not have physically responded. This is to prove the gangsterish behavior of X's best player.

Hopefully that gets broadcast as well and the A-10 sees it (since I'm guessing they will be handing out punishments, as Mack has no decision in the matter). Anybody think Tu will be an All-American by the end of the year?

 

[BearcatAlum1]

I do not think Eggsavier has an outstanding basketball team.

I think we cannot score to save our life and Eggsavier is better than us. Outstanding? Seriously?