Tulsa Game Thread

[cincyguy13]

McNeal is worse than Jihad Muhammed and that's saying a lot, thank god he is only here one year and he has to play out of necessity I guess but he is a Quadri Moore in a point guard form. Mika needs to stay out of foul trouble and Jarron needs to be running the point when Mika is out. I don't understand how McNeal takes minutes from Harvey at this point, can Harvey be that much worse? I know Harvey is not at PG but like everyone has said, we look so much more explosive with Jarron running the show and Jaevin on the wing. I think Diarra continues to take away Sorollas minutes.

I don’t understand either why Harvey can’t at least get 3-4 of McNeal minutes. McNeal can’t even hit the rim,

 

[waterhead]

This team has shown glimpses of what it can be when things are clicking. We have been up and down for most of the season. Tough to see us getting to the point where the play is consistently good in the short term but I guess all it takes is for the light to come on (Tulsa 2nd half maybe?).

There are 3 road wins that will be very tough to pull off but we should have a punchers chance in the rest. We would somehow have to win 10 of the other 12 games to get a sniff at an at large. That's a tall order.

I just hope if we get to a point where the odds are zero that we don't lose interest because we have enough talent to have a shot at the AAC tourney. But we need to stay engaged and improving to even make that happen.

T-Rank has us finishing 10-8 in conference...so the odds of getting to 5 or 6 losses would be pretty damn low but I think we have a top 4 AAC roster which should give us at least a chance at the tourney win.

 

[waterhead]

I was a bit surprised to hear from Brannen in the presser that not all players were sprinting to spots on the court which allows his system to work at it's best. He mentioned if this happens he will have to slow it down by walking it up at times. Just a short while ago he mentioned that he will not slow the game down. In this presser he said it's not how his team will operate in the long run.

I get that he has to keep his best players on the court and we don't have a deep quality bench. But giving guys breathers so they CAN sprint to their spots would seem to be a stronger position to take. If you aren't sprinting to spots either you don't want to or you are tired...and both of those will result in you sitting for a while.

I know Keith gets a little lazy at times and I am sure Jarron does too. Keith is not what I would call irreplaceable. Fresh legs in for a tired Keith is not a major drop off. If he were scoring 20 and handing out 8 dimes...I might let him out there. Jarron has to stay on the court as long as possible but if he's dogging it he can come out for 2 minutes to send a message.

 

[Queens_NYC]

I think the Bearcats found their fab 5 with Jaevin in with the starters and Cland bringing the ball up. Jaevin seems to do better with Cuz on the court. I know Cland may be challenged at times with the ball handling but is there anyone who thinks he can not develop?. This is the reason he came back for a Senior year. CJB should recognize this and start this group IMO. With all due respect we get nothing out of the two point guards we have been starting.

I gotta second this. We went on a 32-4 run over a 8:15 stretch of the 2nd half with Jaevin, Jarron, Keith, Tre and Vogt playing the majority of that stretch. We need these 5 on the court together more often.

 

[skyblade]

McNeal is worse than Jihad Muhammed and that's saying a lot, thank god he is only here one year and he has to play out of necessity I guess but he is a Quadri Moore in a point guard form. Mika needs to stay out of foul trouble and Jarron needs to be running the point when Mika is out. I don't understand how McNeal takes minutes from Harvey at this point, can Harvey be that much worse? I know Harvey is not at PG but like everyone has said, we look so much more explosive with Jarron running the show and Jaevin on the wing. I think Diarra continues to take away Sorollas minutes.

McNeal does all the right things, he just couldn't hit a jump shot to save his life. Harvey can't shoot and can't defend at this point. Davenport got some minutes, but didn't look good either (gave up an offensive rebound or two if I recall correctly). I'm sure Brannen would love to have another option off the bench, but somebody needs to step up.

Right now, the only guys who consistently come off the bench and perform well are Jaevin and Diarra. Either somebody else needs to earn minutes or perhaps Brannen will shrink the rotation.

Sorolla played poorly this game and last game. With how well Diarra has been playing lately, Sorolla's minutes should shrink. Sorolla is all of the defensive liabilities of Vogt (well, he's better on the perimeter but worse on the interior) without the great hands and scoring touch.

 

[skyblade]

I gotta second this. We went on a 32-4 run over a 8:15 stretch of the 2nd half with Jaevin, Jarron, Keith, Tre and Vogt playing the majority of that stretch. We need these 5 on the court together more often.

Diarra was in for Scott for a fairly significant portion of the run (the first 14 points I think).

 

[skyblade]

Yah that was quite a shocker. What that means for the rest of this year is probably some higher quality minutes from Dou...but for seasons beyond this year when he knows the offense from the start should help us quite a bit. Maybe we don't need two bigs in this recruiting class. Add a solid 5 and then take the best player(s) you can find. Dou can make us 2 deep at the 4 and 5.

I think we still need one more big. Bigs generally take a while to develop and we want freshmen this year to train to replace Vogt/Diarra when the graduate (unless we go the transfer route). You also have to account for the possibility of injury.

Diarra will also need some rest. I think it's pretty much certain that Diarra starts at PF and Vogt at center next year. Asking him to start at PF and backup Vogt at center seems like a bit much. I think we at least need a guy who can play 5-10 minutes per game at center.

 

[skyblade]

I haven't seen anyone comment on it yet. But I was surprised to see Tulsa starting Ugboh at center. He has only 3 starts on the season, averages less then 10 minutes and prior to last night had only one game where he played over 15 minutes (17 against UAPB). He played 20 minutes last night.

They did all that to try to counter Vogt. They decided to try to match Vogt's size with size on defense, but it meant they had to sit more experienced and offensively skilled players. It actually worked pretty well at preventing us from running the offense through Vogt, Vogt had 4 TO's and I believe made only 2 or 3 shots as part of the run offense. But rather then get frustrated, Vogt dominated the inexperienced Ugboh on the glass and got himself the shots by grabbing offensive rebounds.

 

[skyblade]

I was a bit surprised to hear from Brannen in the presser that not all players were sprinting to spots on the court which allows his system to work at it's best. He mentioned if this happens he will have to slow it down by walking it up at times. Just a short while ago he mentioned that he will not slow the game down. In this presser he said it's not how his team will operate in the long run.

I get that he has to keep his best players on the court and we don't have a deep quality bench. But giving guys breathers so they CAN sprint to their spots would seem to be a stronger position to take. If you aren't sprinting to spots either you don't want to or you are tired...and both of those will result in you sitting for a while.

I know Keith gets a little lazy at times and I am sure Jarron does too. Keith is not what I would call irreplaceable. Fresh legs in for a tired Keith is not a major drop off. If he were scoring 20 and handing out 8 dimes...I might let him out there. Jarron has to stay on the court as long as possible but if he's dogging it he can come out for 2 minutes to send a message.

It seems like despite what he said early in the season, Brannen has decided to be willing to adjust to the players we have. It took him a while but he's doing it. Saw quite a few aspects of the Cronin offense last night: playing slower, Jarron running a lot of PG and playing a fair amount of isoball, Vogt scoring half his points off offensive rebounds.

Keith brings a lot defensively. Davenport and Harvey have both played poorly defensively and don't box out well for rebounds. Until/unless Davenport or Harvey figure it out, it's hard to have a deep enough rotation to run and keep everyone fresh.

 

[itsamemario]

McNeal does all the right things, he just couldn't hit a jump shot to save his life. Harvey can't shoot and can't defend at this point. Davenport got some minutes, but didn't look good either (gave up an offensive rebound or two if I recall correctly). I'm sure Brannen would love to have another option off the bench, but somebody needs to step up.

Right now, the only guys who consistently come off the bench and perform well are Jaevin and Diarra. Either somebody else needs to earn minutes or perhaps Brannen will shrink the rotation.

Sorolla played poorly this game and last game. With how well Diarra has been playing lately, Sorolla's minutes should shrink. Sorolla is all of the defensive liabilities of Vogt (well, he's better on the perimeter but worse on the interior) without the great hands and scoring touch.

Mcneal does all the right things? He cant stay in front of his man. He turns the ball over. He dribbled for 8 seconds last night at the 3 point line and then threw up an awful shot at the end of the shot clock. This is the norm for mcneal. He played 1 good game and that was the loss at ohio state.

But I guess I dont understand how you can say that about mcneal and then the very next sentence say harvey cant shoot or defend. Mcneal cant do either and hes been in college for 6 years

 

[skyblade]

Mcneal does all the right things? He cant stay in front of his man. He turns the ball over. He dribbled for 8 seconds last night at the 3 point line and then threw up an awful shot at the end of the shot clock. This is the norm for mcneal. He played 1 good game and that was the loss at ohio state.

But I guess I dont understand how you can say that about mcneal and then the very next sentence say harvey cant shoot or defend. Mcneal cant do either and hes been in college for 6 years

Harvey has showed no indications that he can hit a 3 with any consistency. And Harvey's defense has been terrible, he was in the game for 3 minutes last night and committed a holding foul because he couldn't stay in front of his man. Harvey should get there eventually (Williams was very similar as a freshman and figured it out by his Sophomore year), but I don't think he can be counted on for minutes this year.

McNeal has been a quite capable defender and very good at forcing TO's and getting steals at times. Offensively he is majorly lacking, but he brings more then Harvey and probably will continue to this year. I have much more hope in Davenport figuring it out by March then I do in Harvey.

 

[Loser Mentality]

McNeal needs a confidence booster bad.

Last nights 2 Cumberlands, Williams, Scott, and Vogt may have just crushed the confidence booster lol for McNeal going forward.

 

[Alum2013]

Harvey has showed no indications that he can hit a 3 with any consistency. And Harvey's defense has been terrible, he was in the game for 3 minutes last night and committed a holding foul because he couldn't stay in front of his man. Harvey should get there eventually (Williams was very similar as a freshman and figured it out by his Sophomore year), but I don't think he can be counted on for minutes this year.

McNeal has been a quite capable defender and very good at forcing TO's and getting steals at times. Offensively he is majorly lacking, but he brings more then Harvey and probably will continue to this year. I have much more hope in Davenport figuring it out by March then I do in Harvey.

This. I don't understand how anyone could watch what Harvey has done so far this year and think he should be getting more minutes. He has been terrible. McNeal has been equally as terrible offensively but at least on defense he's definitely one of our better ones.

 

[cincyguy13]

This. I don't understand how anyone could watch what Harvey has done so far this year and think he should be getting more minutes. He has been terrible. McNeal has been equally as terrible offensively but at least on defense he's definitely one of our better ones.

The same guy wanted minutes for diarra when he looked equally as terrible.
The thought with giving Harvey a couple minutes, not much, is that the game will begin to slow down and maybe he will get some confidence. He is 18 years old and a big part of the programs future. McNeal is 22-23 years old. Is what he is. And Harvey can’t be much worse in limited time.

 

[waterhead]

This. I don't understand how anyone could watch what Harvey has done so far this year and think he should be getting more minutes. He has been terrible. McNeal has been equally as terrible offensively but at least on defense he's definitely one of our better ones.

Harvey is a frosh so I expect a big jump next year. I don't know what is going on with McNeal (must be mental) he must have done enough in practice and early games to prove something to Brannen. If he could just shoot his career average from 3 I would think he would still be in there. Moore really never gained his confidence back once he lost it. If McNeal keeps working on his shot after practice maybe a light will come on. I remember Terry Nelson saying McNeal was a very capable shooter after watching practices. Something has gone terribly wrong since then

 

[cincyguy13]

Harvey has showed no indications that he can hit a 3 with any consistency. And Harvey's defense has been terrible, he was in the game for 3 minutes last night and committed a holding foul because he couldn't stay in front of his man. Harvey should get there eventually (Williams was very similar as a freshman and figured it out by his Sophomore year), but I don't think he can be counted on for minutes this year.

McNeal has been a quite capable defender and very good at forcing TO's and getting steals at times. Offensively he is majorly lacking, but he brings more then Harvey and probably will continue to this year. I have much more hope in Davenport figuring it out by March then I do in Harvey.

Diarra also looked terrible at the beginning of the year but you wanted him in there. Guess people think Harvey could also get better. But since he’s not your favorite player, I guess He can’t improve.

 

[itsamemario]

Harvey is a frosh so I expect a big jump next year. I don't know what is going on with McNeal (must be mental) he must have done enough in practice and early games to prove something to Brannen. If he could just shoot his career average from 3 I would think he would still be in there. Moore really never gained his confidence back once he lost it. If McNeal keeps working on his shot after practice maybe a light will come on. I remember Terry Nelson saying McNeal was a very capable shooter after watching practices. Something has gone terribly wrong since then

I dont think its mental. Hes just not good. Hes a 6 year career 28% shooter from 3. Im not yelling for Harvey to play more, Im yelling for Mcneal to play less. However that works. If that means play MAW in foul trouble or play Dou at the 1. I dont care, but Mcneal cant be on the floor for any extended periods.

 

[cincyguy13]

I dont think its mental. Hes just not good. Hes a 6 year career 28% shooter from 3. Im not yelling for Harvey to play more, Im yelling for Mcneal to play less. However that works. If that means play MAW in foul trouble or play Dou at the 1. I dont care, but Mcneal cant be on the floor for any extended periods.

I am also for McNeal playing less. I think his best use is playing defense for a couple minutes and getting the other point guard wore out. Or in the press when we are down. Like Iowa. Other than that, we are better without him.

 

[cincrulz11]

I dont think its mental. Hes just not good. Hes a 6 year career 28% shooter from 3. Im not yelling for Harvey to play more, Im yelling for Mcneal to play less. However that works. If that means play MAW in foul trouble or play Dou at the 1. I dont care, but Mcneal cant be on the floor for any extended periods.

28% is bad, but he's not an 11% 3 point shooter which is what he is this year.



obviously nobody wants a 28% 3 point shooter hoisting up 3's either, which is also why nobody should ever want Scott to take a 2 point jumper (Mcneal shooting 28% has a higher expected value than Scott shooting a 2 point jumper, think about that).

 

[skyblade]

Diarra also looked terrible at the beginning of the year but you wanted him in there. Guess people think Harvey could also get better. But since he’s not your favorite player, I guess He can’t improve.

Diarra has been an excellent defender and rebounder all season. He was terrible on the offensive end, but I felt he could figure it out relatively quickly. He's a third year player and was much more likely to make the jump in understanding (which he has). Not only that, but his combination of size/athleticism allows him to recover from mistakes.

Harvey is a good athlete, but not close to Diarra's level. He lacks in all three phases of the game (offense, defense, rebounding). You can play a guy who lacks in one phase (such as Diarra, McNeal, Jaevin and Vogt at times), but you can't play a guy who lacks in a all three. Harvey will get there eventually, but I see no reason to think it will be this season.