Tulsa

[Nayers]

Hold on.


If you think we can win at an "elite" level in todays college basketball environment, year in and year out in this conference then you expect too much. This isn't 2001 where we have a Jordan brand affiliation, which is like gold and conference affiliation meant a whole lot less. IF you think were just going to go in and beat a team like Duke, kentucky, UNC, Michigan state and kansas (because thats an elite level) then your mistaken. You need elite talent to win at an elite level. You need an elite conference to get consistent elite talent.

What we do have instead of elite talent, is an elite identity and an elite defensive coach who can turn just about anyone into an elite defender. If you want to abandon the philosophy that helped us over achieve and move into being a top 15 program, then be my guest. But trying to out score a team with a elite players will be a losing effort 9 out 10 times.

mick is trying to survive with the guys the blue bloods never looked at or bothered to talk to. And yet your over expecting a national championship out of 3 and 4 star recruits.

We will forever be underdogs. Just look at the recruiting for the next class, we've been in the top 10 for a lot of the year and we still can't get a single top 100 player to jump on board, play in our shitty conference and be on CBS Sports network every night.

I can tell you this much; this team's best attribute is its defense and its not even close. But yea, lets just focus on offense instead

soooo you're still not gonna address the cane broome thing?


If you have a comparable defensive player who is light years ahead in offensive prowess, why not start that player? Its those coaching tweaks that people are frustrated with

I think mick is capable as a coach, to develop into a better offensive coach. Why is it that he, as a young coach, is done becoming better?

Has anyone said we need to win championships every year? The stuff you are saying is an extreme that not one person has said. We are wanting maybe an elite 8 once or twice every ten years. Our point is not "mick sucks get rid of him" its mick should change some of his coaching philosophy to become a better coach.

You say we cant compete with elite talent, but when an elite scorer like cane broome is on the bench, how is that not on the coach?

 

[Nayers]

sorry just saw your other reply addressing cane

 

[jacobkdoyle]

You hold on. I never said any of these things. What I have said in the past. Win our league or league conference tourney more than once every 5 years and make a sweet 16 or more, more often than once every 10 years. I know, crazy thoughts. Also we aren’t playin the big boys. For the most part we aren’t competing with them but for maybe 1 game in the tournament.

Yeah I know you've commented on AAC success many times and it often gets taken to mean dominate the entire country.

I agree with you on there things.

I would like for our 4 year players to be part of AAC regular season and tournament title(s) and to play in the 2nd weekend at least once.

We have had 2 years in a row with our 4 year players winning 100+ games. Evans and Jenifer are already at 77 too. So that's something worth a lot too in my book.

 

[Jon Rycek]

No.

The media should be scared to tell a coach how to do his job who is 55-10 in the last 2 years, on a team full of players who were under recruited and has Zero 5 star players who is a top 15 team despite being in this shit hole league and who is going to help Jacob Evans, a kid no one had on their radar, make a lot of money and did it all with out cheating.

UC fans are so spoiled with winning, they all forgot (myself included) what it felt like to lose at home and yet the response is not to thank him for giving us 39 games at home without a loss, but rather to tell him how to do his job. A job that no one on this board, no one in the media and very few around the country understand its complexities.

Mick doesn't hate Cane. if he did he wouldn't be on the team. He's never had a problem kicking a kid to the curb no matter how talented, clearly thats not the case. There is no vendetta against him. Mick knows who's number to call when he needs a bucket.

I can tell you this; Cane Broome will be a better all around player because of Mick Cronin. Cane was an "average" defender in a dreadful league just 2 years ago. All the sudden, a year under Mick and Cane Broome is listed as a "excellent" synergy defender. Better than 89% of the players in CBB at defense. Or the fact, that while Cane's TO% is actually higher, my guess is that Cane will be much better at protecting the ball where ever he goes to play after his college career.

Cane's story at Cincinnati is far from over and Mick has always been the hardest on the kids he thought had the most talent. I think the game comes a little too easy to Cane and it makes him work a little less harder because he feels he doesn't need to, thats just a guess. I have no idea. but I do know no one is out to get Cane and no one is trying to lose basketball games.

And when it comes to strategy, I'll always side with the guy who has 55 wins in the last 2 seasons over any dude on a message board

Excellent

 

[Nayers]

Excellent

are you bill, and he's ted? lol just a joke

 

[cincyguy13]

Yeah I know you've commented on AAC success many times and it often gets taken to mean dominate the entire country.

I agree with you on there things.

I would like for our 4 year players to be part of AAC regular season and tournament title(s) and to play in the 2nd weekend at least once.

We have had 2 years in a row with our 4 year players winning 100+ games. Evans and Jenifer are already at 77 too. So that's something worth a lot too in my book.

Yeah I don’t know why when I say I want to win something, people think that is me saying, we have to win the national championship every year. I guess it fits their argument.

 

[jacobkdoyle]

this is the exact thing that crossed my mind while reading that epic long rant.

Pop is one of the best to ever do it. He said he flat out screwed up with Aldridge trying to turn him into a player that he wasn't capable of becoming.


Now I'm not trying to put Broome in any sort of class with Aldridge, I want to get that out of the way now before somebody tries to accuse me of that.


But what did happen is a coach as great as Pop just got it wrong for a season or two. It happens. Coaches can sometimes be too close to a situation, or have a certain thing in mind for a player because previous players have been successful for that coach using his system.


I'm sure there are numerous cases of the best of the best looking back at certain situations and with hindsight wishing they'd done it differently. Just like my line about players not being robots, coaches aren't either, sometimes they make mistakes. Thats ok. It's part of life and basketball. It doesn't mean we hate him. It doesn't mean we want him gone. It doesn't mean we aren't thankful for what he's done here. It just means we think maybe not using Cane more has been a mistake.

I agree with 99% of this.

The 1% gripe is about you saying Broome is Aldridge!?!? They don't even play the same position. I don't get how you can think they're the exact same player.

 

[Nayers]

just watched the part of the post game presser where mick got a little grouchy, and he seemed pretty confident about not being one of the bad guys in the fbi scandal. Not that I thought he was.

 

[Jon Rycek]

You are probably right to some extent. Fans overract when teams are winning and losing. I don’t think getting on here and telling people how they should feel helps anything but if you want to continue it, have at it. Some of the concerns people have are legitimate. We don’t look good against better teams. If you aren’t at all concerned that’s, fine but don’t act like people have no right to be concerned.

I'm not gonna deny I'm a glass half full kind of guy. And I really do understand some of the concern. I just really think other than the Xavier game we were a basket or two away from winning the other 3. We could have definitely played better and honestly the last rough path I put more on Evans than most. He was struggling and we need him in the big games. We are solid all around, but him and Gary are the guys who can't be having off games. Not in the important ones. I remember how he played down the stretch last year and I'm very confident he will play well again this post season. And Gary is a senior, even if he is having an off night he is gonna be giving it his all and that's still more than most players. Same with Washington, that guy loves to win, I can see him having a great run to end his senior campaign. Cumberland is way out of his funk and might be playing the best ball on the team right now. There are things that worry you, but there is so much to love about these guys, and so much talent on this team. We are all just guessing right now but I still got my chips on the cats come tourney time.

 

[Jon Rycek]

Yeah pretty much.

I'll fully admit I'm not above going into freak out mode, especially late in the season. And I'll own the dumb shit I say sometimes.

But make no mistake, I hope Coach Cronin is here for the rest of his coaching career. Like 30-40 years type stuff when it's all said and done. I truly believe that would be the best thing for UC.

Couldn't agree more, he is a great coach, will probably finish with 1000 wins when it's all said and done.

 

[Jon Rycek]

Why can we not get frustrated losing at Houston or at home against WIchita, when we had a 2 seed locked up? We are at least a better team than Houston and should win at home against Wichita, correct? Yeah, you can’t win every game, I get it but these were 2 very winnable games that could have set us up nice. I don’t understand why it is frowned upon to be angry with these games.

See that's the point, it's perfectly okay to be angry with those games. But not with the whole season because of those two games. Don't you think Villanova and Duke are better than St Johns, unfortunately the better team loses sometimes. Hell we won 16 in a row before Houston and 39 in a row before Wichita state at home. So bound to happen Is and understatement. It sucks they happened back to back, but losses do happen. And neither were some kind of blowout. Wichita controlled most of the game but it was still a one shot away from being a tie game with 2 minutes left. And really that was a shot that should have been made. Just gotta make those places down the stretch

 

[Jon Rycek]

Put me somewhere in the middle I guess. I'm not a "Coach is always right" guy. But the part I bolded is pretty far in the other direction. And I just don't think it's true. I've heard countless times where he says if a guy isn't doing something right, then he's not doing a good enough job of teaching. I know after Wichita (on the radio show maybe) he said we will have to try something else next time. Idk. We don't lose that often so he's not always going to have to publicly self-scout like that. But he says he's not perfect. I find more than X and O type stuff with the media he will talk about how he needs to help his guys. We won't all always agree with the method, but I think we can all agree he has the best interest of UC at heart.

I've definitely heard him says things to that extent.

 

[Jon Rycek]

are you bill, and he's ted? lol just a joke

Bogus !

 

[cincyguy13]

See that's the point, it's perfectly okay to be angry with those games. But not with the whole season because of those two games. Don't you think Villanova and Duke are better than St Johns, unfortunately the better team loses sometimes. Hell we won 16 in a row before Houston and 39 in a row before Wichita state at home. So bound to happen Is and understatement. It sucks they happened back to back, but losses do happen. And neither were some kind of blowout. Wichita controlled most of the game but it was still a one shot away from being a tie game with 2 minutes left. And really that was a shot that should have been made. Just gotta make those places down the stretch

The Florida game and the Houston game were the worst. It wasn’t that they were a bucket or two from winning those games, it’s that they were completely unprepared. They should have beat Florida by at least 10-15 points. I don’t think Florida is good, and they weren’t playing good at the time. And Houston, the offense did the same thing that didn’t work for 20 minutes. It’s not that loses happen, it’s those games could have easily turned a 4 seed in to a possible 1 seed, probably a guaranteed 2 seed

 

[justinhub2003]

Here is the game.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/le7ukbocgs9ys9u/UC Vs Tulsa.mp4?dl=0

 

[Jon Rycek]

The Florida game and the Houston game were the worst. It wasn’t that they were a bucket or two from winning those games, it’s that they were completely unprepared. They should have beat Florida by at least 10-15 points. I don’t think Florida is good, and they weren’t playing good at the time. And Houston, the offense did the same thing that didn’t work for 20 minutes. It’s not that loses happen, it’s those games could have easily turned a 4 seed in to a possible 1 seed, probably a guaranteed 2 seed

I mean I definitely agree those two games could have changed a lot and were ones that we should have won. Maybe not quite as much the Houston game, but the Florida game for sure. 21 turnovers is ridiculous, you take even five of those away we probably win. But I just think that was a horrible game, maybe not so much preparation, but just a really bad game from everyone. Idk...

 

[WAITE HOYT 2]

I think people may be reading to much into this. Mick doesn't have a issue with Cane. Its my opinion He likes the flexibility he gives him off the bench. He can play the wing or PG and he is literally the only scoring threat he has with second unit. I guess Moore could be considered a threat but up to recently he has been ice cold from the field. Using JJ off the bench would give him no offensive spark. Up until recently things were working fine. Starting JJ wasn't a problem because the other starters were carrying a lot of the offense. Now with Evans struggling with his shot Mick may have to go to Cane earlier or start him.

This is Mick utilizing Cane in a role he feels is important to the success of the team. You can certainly disagree with him but to turn it into something its not is the issue I have. This is a Coaches decision. Nothing more nothing less. Doing it his way has been very successful to this point. I'm sure if he feels the need to make a change he will. He likes winning as much as anyone posting here.

 

[jacobkdoyle]

I think people may be reading to much into this. Mick doesn't have a issue with Cane. Its my opinion He likes the flexibility he gives him off the bench. He can play the wing or PG and he is literally the only scoring threat he has with second unit. I guess Moore could be considered a threat but up to recently he has been ice cold from the field. Using JJ off the bench would give him no offensive spark. Up until recently things were working fine. Starting JJ wasn't a problem because the other starters were carrying a lot of the offense. Now with Evans struggling with his shot Mick may have to go to Cane earlier or start him.

This is Mick utilizing Cane in a role he feels is important to the success of the team. You can certainly disagree with him but to turn it into something its not is the issue I have. This is a Coaches decision. Nothing more nothing less. Doing it his way has been very successful to this point. I'm sure if he feels the need to make a change he will. He likes winning as much as anyone posting here.

Did you copy and paste the first paragraph? I feel like I've read that before. And I'm not trying to be funny either.

 

[cincrulz11]

Did you copy and paste the first paragraph? I feel like I've read that before. And I'm not trying to be funny either.

i don't think its a copy pasta. maybe the 3rd and 4th sentence but thats it.

 

[WAITE HOYT 2]

Did you copy and paste the first paragraph? I feel like I've read that before. And I'm not trying to be funny either.

Yea I did. I had it in the WSU thread but thought it should go here. I changed it a bit after reading through the thread. Sorry if I confused anyone.