Agree. And I don't think his numbers will fall off down the stretch because of it. That was my only point. In fact they will probably get better if the stats I have seen play out.
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UCF
- Thread starter jacobkdoyle
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Agree. And I don't think his numbers will fall off down the stretch because of it. That was my only point. In fact they will probably get better if the stats I have seen play out.
Go do some more in-depth research then. Seems outrageous to me to claim that fatigue wouldn't influence performance. 3 random 5 game examples of 1 stat doesn't do it for me.
I have done some research. I don't need to do more. The players in March in the tourney each year...are usually the best players in the country and they always play the most minutes and they usually play well. There is nothing to prove here.
jacobkdoyle
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I have done some research. I don't need to do more. The players in March in the tourney each year...are usually the best players in the country and they always play the most minutes and they usually play well. There is nothing to prove here.
I'd like to see per 40 stats, fg%s, usage rates, etc.
I have done some research. I don't need to do more. The players in March in the tourney each year...are usually the best players in the country and they always play the most minutes and they usually play well. There is nothing to prove here.
And how else could I prove my point if I didn't use the highest mpg guys on our own team over the years? They excel in very late season. SK, TC, JE...etc. Fatigue has not been a concern for the very players we are talking about it would seem.
Why don't you find me the exception to the rule rather than the rule?
I'd like to see per 40 stats, fg%s, usage rates, etc.
I looked at that at a glance. Not hugely in depth. I didn't see any difference in efficiency at first glance. If I did I would have said...you know what...maybe the fatigue issue could be right. I didn't see any correlation to mpg fatigue and late season production.
jacobkdoyle
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And how else could I prove my point if I didn't use the highest mpg guys on our own team over the years? They excel in very late season. SK, TC, JE...etc. Fatigue has not been a concern for the very players we are talking about it would seem.
Why don't you find me the exception to the rule rather than the rule?
I don't need to find it bc I'm not making a claim.
You have a very small sample size of 1 stat from 3 random players on 1 team. Not good enough. Like I said, show me per 40 stats, usage, fg%, ft%. Does it impact younger players more? Players who advance further in the tournament? Or we can just assume it all stays the same or increases bc it did for 3 players? And again, Caupain had 37 in a 60 minute game in one of those. Obviously skews it. Replace him with someone else.
jacobkdoyle
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I looked at that at a glance. Not hugely in depth. I didn't see any difference in efficiency at first glance. If I did I would have said...you know what...maybe the fatigue issue could be right. I didn't see any correlation to mpg fatigue and late season production.
Coach resting guys down the stretch . What does that do? If they were practicing for as long as the beginning of the year, would we see a dip?
jacobkdoyle
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I looked at that at a glance. Not hugely in depth. I didn't see any difference in efficiency at first glance. If I did I would have said...you know what...maybe the fatigue issue could be right. I didn't see any correlation to mpg fatigue and late season production.
I'd like to see actual numbers.
I don't need to find it bc I'm not making a claim.
You have a very small sample size of 1 stat from 3 random players on 1 team. Not good enough. Like I said, show me per 40 stats, usage, fg%, ft%. Does it impact younger players more? Players who advance further in the tournament? Or we can just assume it all stays the same or increases bc it did for 3 players? And again, Caupain had 37 in a 60 minute game in one of those. Obviously skews it. Replace him with someone else.
#1 I was not making a claim. The claim was made. I was responding to it.
#2. If I can't use the highest usage players on our team who else would matter in this case? We are talking about high usage and whether fatigue is a problem. Based on the highest usage players it doesn't seem to be a problem. And it doesn't just matter for this team. Look back over the NCAA tourney and you will probably see the best players in the country deciding how the tourney unfolds. They were VERY likely getting the most minutes during the season as well.
jacobkdoyle
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#1 I was not making a claim. The claim was made. I was responding to it.
#2. If I can't use the highest usage players on our team who else would matter in this case? We are talking about high usage and whether fatigue is a problem. Based on the highest usage players it doesn't seem to be a problem. And it doesn't just matter for this team. Look back over the NCAA tourney and you will probably see the best players in the country deciding how the tourney unfolds. They were VERY likely getting the most minutes during the season as well.
Dude use something besides PPG on 3 players.
The bolded part says nothing. No sh*t. That has nothing to do with them being fatigued or not, what their efficiency looks like, how they were handled leading up to it, etc.
This is really simple. Would you play Evans 40 minutes every game the rest of the year? If not, why not?
I'd like to see actual numbers.
Okay.
SK senior year season avg. .423 FG% and .348 3pt FG %. Over the last 5 games. .56% FG and .38% from 3. (both better)
TC Junior year. .394 FG% and .325% from 3. Over the last 5 games .40% and .41% (both better)
TC Senior year. .375 FG % and .324% from 3. Over the last 5 games .39% and .375% (both better)
Evans last year. .473 FG% and .418% from 3. Over the last 5 games .53% and .65%. (both better)
I never get this fatigue thing. How many hours during the summer do you think these guys play pick up basketball? How many hours are they practicing a day. Do you really think playing 30 vs 35 minutes in a game twice a week makes that much different to a 20 year old athlete? Many of us on this board are old and decrepit so I get why a 40 minute game may seem overwhelming but come on. If anything the mental fatigue of traveling, practicing and dealing with school may be a whole lot more of a problem for a young college athlete.
jacobkdoyle
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I never get this fatigue thing. How many hours during the summer do you think these guys play pick up basketball? How many hours are they practicing a day. Do you really think playing 30 vs 35 minutes in a game twice a week makes that much different to a 20 year old athlete? Many of us on this board are old and decrepit so I get why a 40 minute game may seem overwhelming but come on. If anything the mental fatigue of traveling, practicing and dealing with school may be a whole lot more of a problem for a young college athlete.
I think it's all of it. And our coach spends the most time with these guys and talks about it every year. He goes out of his way to mention throttling down in practice time as the year goes on.
Dude use something besides PPG on 3 players.
The bolded part says nothing. No sh*t. That has nothing to do with them being fatigued or not, what their efficiency looks like, how they were handled leading up to it, etc.
This is really simple. Would you play Evans 40 minutes every game the rest of the year? If not, why not?
Why would I use anything else but the highest usage players when discussing fatigue? Do you want me to use bench players getting 10 minutes? No of course not. The claim was made that SK was hitting a wall...which he obviously did not. Troy never hit a wall and neither did Evans. They played the most minutes. They did better at the end of the season. This (fatigue thing) is just superstition as far as I can tell.
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jacobkdoyle
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Okay.
SK senior year season avg. .423 FG% and .348 3pt FG %. Over the last 5 games. .56% FG and .38% from 3. (both better)
TC Junior year. .394 FG% and .325% from 3. Over the last 5 games .40% and .41% (both better)
TC Senior year. .375 FG % and .324% from 3. Over the last 5 games .39% and .375% (both better)
Evans last year. .473 FG% and .418% from 3. Over the last 5 games .53% and .65%. (both better)
Again, Caupain's JR year has a huge outlier game. Convenient you use 2 years for only him.
Does the way our Coach handles things have anything to do with this? Why would he tone down practices if fatigue isn't an issue? Do you know of any coaches who stick with the same routine all year? What do their players do? Before the last 5 games, how many times did Evans, Caupain, and SK play 35+ minutes leading up to it? What about other guys on the team?
jacobkdoyle
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Why would I use anything else but the highest usage players when discussing fatigue? Do you want me to use bench players getting 10 minutes? No of course not. The claim was made that SK was hitting a wall...which he obviously did not. Troy never hit a wall and neither did Evans. They played the most minutes. They did better at the end of the season. This (fatigues thing) is just superstition as far as I can tell.
So our coach is just making stuff up? What role does our coach being aware of these concerns and acting accordingly off the court play? That's the part you refuse to acknowledge. Could it be that Cronin toning down the practice workload for these guys kept them fresh? You are acting like our players are robots.
Again, Caupain's JR year has a huge outlier game. Convenient you use 2 years for only him.
Does the way our Coach handles things have anything to do with this? Why would he tone down practices if fatigue isn't an issue? Do you know of any coaches who stick with the same routine all year? What do their players do? Before the last 5 games, how many times did Evans, Caupain, and SK play 35+ minutes leading up to it? What about other guys on the team?
Troy was our highest mpg player both years...Geezus this is not a convenience thing. It's based on mpg which is the topic.
jacobkdoyle
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Why would I use anything else but the highest usage players when discussing fatigue? Do you want me to use bench players getting 10 minutes? No of course not. The claim was made that SK was hitting a wall...which he obviously did not. Troy never hit a wall and neither did Evans. They played the most minutes. They did better at the end of the season. This (fatigue thing) is just superstition as far as I can tell.
Smh. Our coach sure spends a lot of time each year worrying about nothing.
So let me just ask this to make sure I'm not misrepresenting what you're saying: The only reason to not play Evans 40 minutes every single game is bc it increases his chance of a freak (non physical wellness related) injury. Is that what you think? The idea of him getting tired from that is superstition?
So our coach is just making stuff up? What role does our coach being aware of these concerns and acting accordingly off the court play? That's the part you refuse to acknowledge. Could it be that Cronin toning down the practice workload for these guys kept them fresh? You are acting like our players are robots.
I didn't say coach made anything up. I was responding to a post from a fan on this board. Which I was then asked to present data for (which I did).
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Okay.
SK senior year season avg. .423 FG% and .348 3pt FG %. Over the last 5 games. .56% FG and .38% from 3. (both better)
TC Junior year. .394 FG% and .325% from 3. Over the last 5 games .40% and .41% (both better)
TC Senior year. .375 FG % and .324% from 3. Over the last 5 games .39% and .375% (both better)
Evans last year. .473 FG% and .418% from 3. Over the last 5 games .53% and .65%. (both better)
This is incredibly misleading. Evans was 8-10 and 5-7 in games with 26 and 29 minutes. Then in his 3rd game in 3 days, he went 3-11 in 34 minutes. I wonder why. Couldn't be fatigue.