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Let’s take a look at 4 second year coaches at new programs
Cronin at UCLA
Brannen at UC
Oates at Bama
Mussleman at ArK

Using Kenpom as the measurement of the quality of teams

UCLA:
2019 (year before new coach): 102
2020: 78 (+24 improvement)
2021: 34 (+68 improvement)

Arkansas:
2019 (year before new coach): 54
2020: 47 (+7 improvement)
2021: 27 (+27 improvement)

Bama:
2019 (year before new coach): 64
2020: 60 (+4 improvement)
2021: 45 (+19 improvement)

UC:
2019 (year before new coach) : 29
2020: 44 (-15 regression)
20/21: 78 (-47 regression)

Now let’s look at recruiting for 2021 for these 4 new coaches:
UCLA: #5 class (3 top 50 players signed)
Arkansas: #54 class (1 4 star and 1 3 Star)
Bama: #18 class (1 5 Star & 2 4 Stars)
UC: zero commits




Y’all this is a fair measuring stick. These are 3 coaches given worse teams than Brannen inherited and yet have the programs all moving forward and all with good classes signed to ensure they have a bright future.

2 of these coaches moved up from the mid major level and had no experience pulling in top tier talent.



Can we all acknowledge that so far we’ve made the worst hire of teams in our same situation ?
 
TheLivingLegend said:
Yes ucla litered with 4 and 5 star guys had no talent... Go to bed.
Click to expand...

They were losers.

If you recall the 3 best players left to be pros.

All they needed was a good coach. Now they are top 40 with a top 5 class on the way. Oh and I think only 2 of those guys on the whole team are “Mick’s guys” ... goes to show you can build a culture without kicking every body out
 
Any way. I just want to understand why our program is on a decline when these other 3 aren’t.

It’s not over by any means but this isn’t going to plan even for John
 
justinhub2003 said:
Any way. I just want to understand why our program is on a decline when these other 3 aren’t.

It’s not over by any means but this isn’t going to plan even for John
Click to expand...

Musings:
Not to let CJB off the hook but wonder when the i
other coaches took over in regards to upcoming season.
Was April for Brannon, correct ? Not exactly great
Timing for recruiting purposes.
As far as 2021, I agree. Wonder how much ancillary
support CJB has in the program ? Steele at X, to
his credit, utilized Zoom quite a bit to recruit during
Covid restrictions. Now X is all in with their program
with tons of ancillary support (Hoops is all they have),
and I wonder how much CJB has.
 
Maybe we have to look at the program as far as
the University’s’ commitment. Toward the end,
I thought Huggs swung & misssd on a number of
recruits and Cronin was hit or miss. Conference
affiliation has something to do with that, as well
as the resources a coach has to help him.
Coaching budget ? Recruiting budget ?
We all remember when it was discussed that
even X coach has access to a private plane
for recruiting.
 
Lefty said:
Musings:
Not to let CJB off the hook but wonder when the i
other coaches took over in regards to upcoming season.
Was April for Brannon, correct ? Not exactly great
Timing for recruiting purposes.
As far as 2021, I agree. Wonder how much ancillary
support CJB has in the program ? Steele at X, to
his credit, utilized Zoom quite a bit to recruit during
Covid restrictions. Now X is all in with their program
with tons of ancillary support (Hoops is all they have),
and I wonder how much CJB has.
Click to expand...


I think mick was hired on April 9th and CJB April 16th or so.

So both those guys took over around the same time
 
justinhub2003 said:
Let’s take a look at 4 second year coaches at new programs
Cronin at UCLA
Brannen at UC
Oates at Bama
Mussleman at ArK

Using Kenpom as the measurement of the quality of teams

UCLA:
2019 (year before new coach): 102
2020: 78 (+24 improvement)
2021: 34 (+68 improvement)

Arkansas:
2019 (year before new coach): 54
2020: 47 (+7 improvement)
2021: 27 (+27 improvement)

Bama:
2019 (year before new coach): 64
2020: 60 (+4 improvement)
2021: 45 (+19 improvement)

UC:
2019 (year before new coach) : 29
2020: 44 (-15 regression)
20/21: 78 (-47 regression)

Now let’s look at recruiting for 2021 for these 4 new coaches:
UCLA: #5 class (3 top 50 players signed)
Arkansas: #54 class (1 4 star and 1 3 Star)
Bama: #18 class (1 5 Star & 2 4 Stars)
UC: zero commits




Y’all this is a fair measuring stick. These are 3 coaches given worse teams than Brannen inherited and yet have the programs all moving forward and all with good classes signed to ensure they have a bright future.

2 of these coaches moved up from the mid major level and had no experience pulling in top tier talent.



Can we all acknowledge that so far we’ve made the worst hire of teams in our same situation ?
Click to expand...

The part you keep leaving out is that the lack of recruiting was a choice...a strategy. We will see if it bites him but he finds it important to judge the character of the players who come to UC. A long term cancer on the team would not be beneficial.

Ranking a class of no recruits against programs who chose to recruit remote is disingenuous.
 
waterhead said:
The part you keep leaving out is that the lack of recruiting was a choice...a strategy. We will see if it bites him but he finds it important to judge the character of the players who come to UC. A long term cancer on the team would not be beneficial.

Ranking a class of no recruits against programs who chose to recruit remote is disingenuous.
Click to expand...

The strategy seems like one of the worst mistakes he can make. Sure, he wants to avoid a long term cancer, but he's not an established coach who can miss for a year or two. If he doesn't win next year, he is almost certainly gone. Maybe in mid-major land it's acceptable, but here you better recruit - isn't that what everyone hated on Cronin for.

He needs to be planning to win now. If someone is a locker room cancer he can always force the guy out. Pretty much every other coach has figured out how to recruit during the pandemic. He needs to get with the times.

Maybe if he had a better track record with transfers it would inspire more hope. But he is 1/5 in terms of transfers, any transfer who he recruits here is going to look at that and have serious doubts.

I don't know, I want Brannen to succeed. But not recruiting is going to leave a bad taste in a lot of peoples mouths. If we finish with a losing season and have no recruits on board for next year, I'm not sure Brannen coaches here next year - or that he deserves to.
 
justinhub2003 said:
They were losers.

If you recall the 3 best players left to be pros.

All they needed was a good coach. Now they are top 40 with a top 5 class on the way. Oh and I think only 2 of those guys on the whole team are “Mick’s guys” ... goes to show you can build a culture without kicking every body out
Click to expand...

Didn’t we do this last year? I think someone looked it up and found out that UCLA had 8 4 stars on the roster. But yeah, it’s exactly the same
 
waterhead said:
The part you keep leaving out is that the lack of recruiting was a choice...a strategy. We will see if it bites him but he finds it important to judge the character of the players who come to UC. A long term cancer on the team would not be beneficial.

Ranking a class of no recruits against programs who chose to recruit remote is disingenuous.
Click to expand...

Not true homie.

He offered multiple guys and whiffed on all of em
 
justinhub2003 said:
Remember ranking means nothing.. they all sucked and had a losing record
Click to expand...

What are you talking about? Do you want an argument? This team needs help. The no commitments in 2021 is a problem as of now. But all it takes is one guy to hit on to change a program. It doesn’t look promising at the moment. We will have to wait and see.

If you want to argue, get some new material
 
cincyguy13 said:
What are you talking about? Do you want an argument? This team needs help. The no commitments in 2021 is a problem as of now. But all it takes is one guy to hit on to change a program. It doesn’t look promising at the moment. We will have to wait and see.

If you want to argue, get some new material
Click to expand...


I didn’t really want to argue.

Just posted some stats that I found interesting in regards to 2nd year coaches.

Maybe we right the ship tomorrow though.
 
justinhub2003 said:
Not true homie.

He offered multiple guys and whiffed on all of em
Click to expand...

He threw out a few fishing lines but he passed on a lot of guys that he didn’t already know or couldn’t sit down with. I know you understand the point but you like to dig your heels in

Anyway I would feel better if we zoomed a few and landed at least 1 maybe 2 guys. But that’s not my point and I’m not the coach
 
skyblade said:
The strategy seems like one of the worst mistakes he can make. Sure, he wants to avoid a long term cancer, but he's not an established coach who can miss for a year or two. If he doesn't win next year, he is almost certainly gone. Maybe in mid-major land it's acceptable, but here you better recruit - isn't that what everyone hated on Cronin for.

He needs to be planning to win now. If someone is a locker room cancer he can always force the guy out. Pretty much every other coach has figured out how to recruit during the pandemic. He needs to get with the times.

Maybe if he had a better track record with transfers it would inspire more hope. But he is 1/5 in terms of transfers, any transfer who he recruits here is going to look at that and have serious doubts.

I don't know, I want Brannen to succeed. But not recruiting is going to leave a bad taste in a lot of peoples mouths. If we finish with a losing season and have no recruits on board for next year, I'm not sure Brannen coaches here next year - or that he deserves to.
Click to expand...

I didn’t say I liked the strategy...lol! I am a fan I want to see and talk about more good players. If I were a coach I would be more cautious. We will see what happens in the spring

Chris Rock...” I’m not saying I agree....but I understand”
 
Last edited:
waterhead said:
He threw out a few fishing lines but he passed on a lot of guys that he didn’t already know or couldn’t sit down with. I know you understand the point but you like to dig your heels in

Anyway I would feel better if we zoomed a few and landed at least 1 maybe 2 guys. But that’s not my point and I’m not the coach
Click to expand...



When your team is 2-5, and gets no better game after game, then it’s a bit tough to trust that this is brannen’s plan all along. He went all in on multiple guys and they told him no.

He decided that his bold strategy is to not even have offers out.


He’s the only coach in our league to do that. I don’t think this is a good philosophy
 
Look I would take my chances. If you get a bad apple you can sit him on the bench till he opts out or transfers.

I would have grabbed at least 1 if not 2 recruits.

But I was saying there is no sense in ranking the recruits when the philosophy was so much different
 

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