UCLA

[WAITE HOYT 2]

mick has been holding him and kyle to a different standard than the rest of the team, thats clear when watching.


but mick has always played favorites with certain guys. the 2014 ge'lawn guyn season stands out specifically.

has nothing to do with favorites. Mick has a much better understanding of how to get players to respond then anyone posting here. No one is being mistreated.

 

[cincrulz11]

has nothing to do with favorites. Mick has a much better understanding of how to get players to respond then anyone posting here. No one is being mistreated.

i dont know, that 2014 guyn season he played 50% of the minutes at pg while shooting 33% from the floor, 53 % from the ft line and having a turnover rate 2 times higher than his assist rate.


im sure the board probably looked a lot like this back then. caupain and guyn splitting minutes evenly while caupain out performed him in every stat there was on both ends of the court.


and it never changed throughout the season and we flamed out 1st round in sk's sr season. that still hurts.

 

[waterhead]

i dont really think there is anything to back that up.


he's good enough to get the team a lead but not good enough to keep it? that seems sorta silly to me.



we need to get over thinking broome is turnover prone, he's proven through the last 4 that he isn't.

I think Jenifer is much more sure with the ball and his passes. If you don't think there is anything to back that up I don't know what to tell you. Cane has come a long way and done better at not turning it over but even then Jenifer is still way less likely. Even since Cane's 5 turnover game he hasn't turned it over more than 2 times in a game since...but he does still have 9 since that game and Jenifer only has 2 and only 6 on the season (and 3 of those were in 1 game so 3 TO's in the other 10 games).

You want some risk taking during the meat of the game to create some scoring. You don't want risk taking at the end of games when you have the lead and running clock. You want ball security as your top goal and making FT's would be also up there.

I still want Cane as our starting PG and getting 30 minutes or more. I don't even mind him in at end of games like last night...but Jennifer needs to run point when we are trying to run clock like that. At least for now.

 

[jacobkdoyle]

So Broome is our "between the 20s" guy and Jenifer is the red zone back?

 

[jacobkdoyle]

i dont know, that 2014 guyn season he played 50% of the minutes at pg while shooting 33% from the floor, 53 % from the ft line and having a turnover rate 2 times higher than his assist rate.


im sure the board probably looked a lot like this back then. caupain and guyn splitting minutes evenly while caupain out performed him in every stat there was on both ends of the court.


and it never changed throughout the season and we flamed out 1st round in sk's sr season. that still hurts.

6.9 PER and 42% TS for Guyn that year.

 

[juckerrules]

I think Jenifer is much more sure with the ball and his passes. If you don't think there is anything to back that up I don't know what to tell you. Cane has come a long way and done better at not turning it over but even then Jenifer is still way less likely. Even since Cane's 5 turnover game he hasn't turned it over more than 2 times in a game since...but he does still have 9 since that game and Jenifer only has 2 and only 6 on the season (and 3 of those were in 1 game so 3 TO's in the other 10 games).

You want some risk taking during the meat of the game to create some scoring. You don't want risk taking at the end of games when you have the lead and running clock. You want ball security as your top goal and making FT's would be also up there.

I still want Cane as our starting PG and getting 30 minutes or more. I don't even mind him in at end of games like last night...but Jennifer needs to run point when we are trying to run clock like that. At least for now.

Yes, Cane has more turnovers...in basically the same # of minutes, he has 23 to JJ's 6 (though half of those came in 2 games early on in blowouts, but still) HOWEVER....
He also has 3 more assists, 33 more points, 11 more steals & 10 more boards. his TOs gave the opposition 17 more possessions than JJ - but he acquired 21 more possessions with the extra steals & boards..not to mention an extra 33 points...& 3 more assists
On balance, I want more everything else & am willing to put up with the TO's -
Cane is still new to this team...hadn't played a real game for more than a year and a half. I have to think that he's going to get better and better as the year goes on.

 

[cincrulz11]

6.9 PER and 42% TS for Guyn that year.

yeah and we all had to live through that. i certainly dont forget it happened. it was a shame then and its sad to watch it happen again.

 

[jacobkdoyle]

yeah and we all had to live through that. i certainly dont forget it happened. it was a shame then and its sad to watch it happen again.

Good news is Jenifer is better than Guyn was, and Broome is better than Caupain was at that point.

 

[cincrulz11]

So Broome is our "between the 20s" guy and Jenifer is the red zone back?

i can understand jenifer has a lower TO rate. but if we can agree broome is the better overall player, and broome is better to play with a smaller lead, why on earth must you bring in jenifer with a 13 point lead.


win percentage probably doesn't go up at all bringing jenifer in. so you are playing jenifer just to give him minutes.



but i also never said jenifer shouldn't have played, i only said broome was the wrong guy to pull.



but i still dont see a reason to pull broome with a 13 point lead, i really dont. and i understand the turnover rate, but if a 6 point lead is safer with broome, how on earth is a 13 point lead at risk with broome.



it looks more to me like cronin just wants them getting even minutes. and that takes me back to 2014 and it makes me depressed and fearful.

 

[cincrulz11]

Good news is Jenifer is better than Guyn was, and Broome is better than Caupain was at that point.

i think i'd take cane over peak caupain and i was probably the biggest supporter caupain has ever had on this board. i fought everybody about him from his freshman year on (you know against the attacks that jenifer should start day 1 over him lol)

 

[WAITE HOYT 2]

Re- watching the game and I have to say Keith Williams is going to be a player if he finds a outside stroke.

 

[WAITE HOYT 2]

It's also easy to see a second time that we got very nice PG play from both kids.

 

[cincrulz11]

Re- watching the game and I have to say Keith Williams is going to be a player if he finds a outside stroke.

that back cut he made, loved it. with more experience he'll draw the foul or finish.

 

[justinhub2003]

I rewatched the game. Pretty sure we only had 18 points with 4 minutes and then just kicked the offense in to high gear

 

[Jon Rycek]

i dont really think there is anything to back that up.


he's good enough to get the team a lead but not good enough to keep it? that seems sorta silly to me.



we need to get over thinking broome is turnover prone, he's proven through the last 4 that he isn't.

Right lol.

 

[Bcatfollower]

i can understand jenifer has a lower TO rate. but if we can agree broome is the better overall player, and broome is better to play with a smaller lead, why on earth must you bring in jenifer with a 13 point lead.


win percentage probably doesn't go up at all bringing jenifer in. so you are playing jenifer just to give him minutes.



but i also never said jenifer shouldn't have played, i only said broome was the wrong guy to pull.



but i still dont see a reason to pull broome with a 13 point lead, i really dont. and i understand the turnover rate, but if a 6 point lead is safer with broome, how on earth is a 13 point lead at risk with broome.



it looks more to me like cronin just wants them getting even minutes. and that takes me back to 2014 and it makes me depressed and fearful.

Maybe I'm incorrect here, I'll have to rewatch but I thought jj came in to handle the ball at the end of the game after evans threw a pass out of bounds in broomes direction. Im not knocking cane cause i think he is the better player but cronin wanted a true ball handler to handle the pressure and evans wasnt coming out.

Evans and broome are basically two guards and if you look at the half court offense cronin runs, the pg gives the ball up 90% of the time at the top of the key... they aren't really running the offense through the pg. But when it comes to handling the press at the end of the game jj's skills were needed.

 

[cincrulz11]

Maybe I'm incorrect here, I'll have to rewatch but I thought jj came in to handle the ball at the end of the game after evans threw a pass out of bounds in broomes direction. Im not knocking cane cause i think he is the better player but cronin wanted a true ball handler to handle the pressure and evans wasnt coming out.

Evans and broome are basically two guards and if you look at the half court offense cronin runs, the pg gives the ball up 90% of the time at the top of the key... they aren't really running the offense through the pg. But when it comes to handling the press at the end of the game jj's skills were needed.

you are right, that is when mick made the switch. but they were pressing before that happened and cane never once had an issue with it. hard to fault cane for evans' mistake

 

[ZCat]

Also, there is serious value is there not being a ton of tape on Cane broome within this offense once we get into conference play.


Its probably a great thing that Cane hasn't shown everything he can do. You can't take something away if you don't know it exists.


Im downloading and putting the full game together now from Synergy and am going to re-watch it.

Are you allowed to YouTube that?

 

[AZ BEARCAT]

I don't think Mick is splitting minutes. Yesterday was a bit telling in how he values each. When he feels he needs offense he uses Cane and when he needs stability and wants to control the clock and tempo he uses JJ. Example was how at end of game and UCLA was fouling and pressing he had JJ in the game. He also did a good jog. Hitting 5-6 from the line and not turning ball over. When he was looking to push the ball a bit more and needed scoring he went to Cane. I think Mick values the strengths of each of their games and tries to use the accordingly.

Was also nice to see Williams start to step up. He plays very good defense and hiis game going to the glass may be the best on the team. If he works on his perimeter game he will become a force.

agree

 

[ZCat]

Re- watching the game and I have to say Keith Williams is going to be a player if he finds a outside stroke.

DVR or did you find it somewhere?