UCLA

[TheLongHaul]

you are right, that is when mick made the switch. but they were pressing before that happened and cane never once had an issue with it. hard to fault cane for evans' mistake

Agreed. Broome is superior to Jennifer in just about every way possible. If this team is going to make a run, it's going to be with Broome at PG. Jennifer isn't a terrible backup but he is basically there to protect the ball (which Mick loves). He airballed a wide open 8 footer and hit the top of the backboard on a wide open 3. Remember when he airballed a FT last year? He just doesn't make big shots in big games. I do give credit for his FT's last night. That said, Broome should have been in there to take FT's.

 

[waterhead]

Yes, Cane has more turnovers...in basically the same # of minutes, he has 23 to JJ's 6 (though half of those came in 2 games early on in blowouts, but still) HOWEVER....
He also has 3 more assists, 33 more points, 11 more steals & 10 more boards. his TOs gave the opposition 17 more possessions than JJ - but he acquired 21 more possessions with the extra steals & boards..not to mention an extra 33 points...& 3 more assists
On balance, I want more everything else & am willing to put up with the TO's -
Cane is still new to this team...hadn't played a real game for more than a year and a half. I have to think that he's going to get better and better as the year goes on.

I agree with almost all of that. I was specifically talking about milking the clock situation like last night. That is when ball security is a must.

 

[cincrulz11]

I agree with almost all of that. I was specifically talking about milking the clock situation like last night. That is when ball security is a must.

yesterdays game was 99.1% win probability with 5 minutes to go.


there will be games that are tight down the stretch when we need cane in because we need offense as well, and some of those teams will trap and press.



i would like cane to get experience for those situations because we'll need him to do well in them in the future.


thats how i view things.


constantly build towards march and get the top 5 guys as much experience with different looks as possible. also wouldn't be opposed to the jenifer/broome combo to close games for ball security plus an option to get to the rim after the shot clock is running down. plus it would put the best 5 ft shooters out there together.

 

[waterhead]

yesterdays game was 99.1% win probability with 5 minutes to go.


there will be games that are tight down the stretch when we need cane in because we need offense as well, and some of those teams will trap and press.



i would like cane to get experience for those situations because we'll need him to do well in them in the future.


thats how i view things.


constantly build towards march and get the top 5 guys as much experience with different looks as possible. also wouldn't be opposed to the jenifer/broome combo to close games for ball security plus an option to get to the rim after the shot clock is running down. plus it would put the best 5 ft shooters out there together.

Okay...I can agree with that. I still think Jenifer is going to be one of our 5 best on the court when milking a clock.

I gave my reasons why I don't like Jenifer as much as Cane during the rest of the game. The biggest thing is we got off to a slow start and UCLA had some early success because JJ was being exposed on D. A taller PG can shoot right over him and he was blown past a couple of times early on. Besides offense Cane has more jumping ability and a longer reach and he can't do much worse staying in front of his man than JJ the first 5 minutes last night. He can get steals more often and rebound better to boot.

Please don't confuse my points about milking a clock with the rest of the game because I agree with most everyone else on that. Jenifer is our best ball control option and I don't think that means we can't have Cane on the floor at the same time when milking a clock. Cane is the superior player for most other situations other than running point when milking a clock. He can play on the wing those situations though...which means Cronin is making decisions between CB and JC at that point.

 

[ZCat]

i dont know, that 2014 guyn season he played 50% of the minutes at pg while shooting 33% from the floor, 53 % from the ft line and having a turnover rate 2 times higher than his assist rate.


im sure the board probably looked a lot like this back then. caupain and guyn splitting minutes evenly while caupain out performed him in every stat there was on both ends of the court.


and it never changed throughout the season and we flamed out 1st round in sk's sr season. that still hurts.

How do other teams handle this issue of veteran player with a better lower classmen? ( Outside of UK). I mean I know it is a delicate situation, and leads to transfers and may affect recruiting. Mick gas started younger players over seniors, but there certainly are some glaring examples of the times he doesn't. It sure keeps the message boards alive lol.

Eggz and others take grad transfers. I never want to be a factory, and run people out. Ever. But what's the issue with best player playing?

 

[waterhead]

Re- watching the game and I have to say Keith Williams is going to be a player if he finds a outside stroke.

Yah...I was making this point earlier in the season and it hasn't gotten much better if at all. I have seen Williams take 3 pointers that are less open than our better shooters. He's not making them. He should only shoot when wide open from 3 and be trying to penetrate or make off ball cuts through the lane the rest of the time IMO. NO shame in that.

 

[BearcatsNE]

Cronin doesn’t let any of his PG just play out of control. So ball control and milking the clock wouldn’t be a problem for Cane or Justin. Every possession is ran by Cronin first. But thanks for making my flight enjoyable.

 

[Bcatfollower]

How do other teams handle this issue of veteran player with a better lower classmen? ( Outside of UK). I mean I know it is a delicate situation, and leads to transfers and may affect recruiting. Mick gas started younger players over seniors, but there certainly are some glaring examples of the times he doesn't. It sure keeps the message boards alive lol.

Eggz and others take grad transfers. I never want to be a factory, and run people out. Ever. But what's the issue with best player playing?

Cane and jj are in the same class now

 

[waterhead]

yesterdays game was 99.1% win probability with 5 minutes to go.


there will be games that are tight down the stretch when we need cane in because we need offense as well, and some of those teams will trap and press.



i would like cane to get experience for those situations because we'll need him to do well in them in the future.


thats how i view things.


constantly build towards march and get the top 5 guys as much experience with different looks as possible. also wouldn't be opposed to the jenifer/broome combo to close games for ball security plus an option to get to the rim after the shot clock is running down. plus it would put the best 5 ft shooters out there together.

Cronin can get Jenifer plenty of minutes in the following ways if he wants to. Spelling Broome for breathers at PG during the first 35 minutes of the game. Moving Broome over when Cumberland or Evans is out. Milking clocks when we have a lead at the end of games. He can get 15-20 minutes this way even if Cane gets 30. I think Cane has to play...so if JJ is getting 15-20 minutes it should come at the expense of our frosh wings rather than Broome.

 

[cincrulz11]

How do other teams handle this issue of veteran player with a better lower classmen? ( Outside of UK). I mean I know it is a delicate situation, and leads to transfers and may affect recruiting. Mick gas started younger players over seniors, but there certainly are some glaring examples of the times he doesn't. It sure keeps the message boards alive lol.

Eggz and others take grad transfers. I never want to be a factory, and run people out. Ever. But what's the issue with best player playing?

im not sure but if i had to take a guess most other teams allow the better player to play, especially when he's playing well.


the cobb/KJ situation was another. mick stuck with shaq over evans for a long time too (i think it took a shaq injury to open the door fully). its just what he does.

 

[BearcatsNE]

Okay...I can agree with that. I still think Jenifer is going to be one of our 5 best on the court when milking a clock.

I gave my reasons why I don't like Jenifer as much as Cane during the rest of the game. The biggest thing is we got off to a slow start and UCLA had some early success because JJ was being exposed on D. A taller PG can shoot right over him and he was blown past a couple of times early on. Besides offense Cane has more jumping ability and a longer reach and he can't do much worse staying in front of his man than JJ the first 5 minutes last night. He can get steals more often and rebound better to boot.

Please don't confuse my points about milking a clock with the rest of the game because I agree with most everyone else on that. Jenifer is our best ball control option and I don't think that means we can't have Cane on the floor at the same time when milking a clock. Cane is the superior player for most other situations other than running point when milking a clock. He can play on the wing those situations though...which means Cronin is making decisions between CB and JC at that point.

Cronin doesn’t let any of his PG just play out of control. So ball control and milking the clock wouldn’t be a problem for Cane or Justin. Every possession is ran by Cronin first. But thanks for making my flight enjoyable.

 

[waterhead]

Cronin doesn’t let any of his PG just play out of control. So ball control and milking the clock wouldn’t be a problem for Cane or Justin. Every possession is ran by Cronin first. But thanks for making my flight enjoyable.

I disagree here. Watch what happens when Jenifer and Broome are asked to sit out at the top of the key and let a defender hound them while they are dribbling for more than a couple of seconds. Jenifer has no issue because he is a superior ball handler. Caupain had no issue because he used his backside and length ala Magic Johnson to keep his defender from stealing the ball. Cane is not comfortable out there in that situation. He would rather be running around on the move or passing the ball to someone else than endure that type of pressure. To me it seems very obvious. Even if we let him sit out on the top of the key dribbling to run off clock...his passes after that point have not been as crisp or precise as Jenifer. I don't even think it's a close argument in these particular situations.

 

[justinhub2003]

In case anyone is interested in rewatching I have edited the clips from Synergy and compiled into one video. No Commercials or Halftime

https://www.dropbox.com/s/tb567rwzb1n2shr/UCLA.mp4?dl=0

 

[justinhub2003]

The Reality is Cane is the better player. And every one knows it. Jenifer has been in the program longer and Mick wants to reward his hard work. But I think by the end of the season Cane is going to be the primary ball handler in every situation.


And I fully expect Cane to start every game next year.


Cronin is an "earn my trust first" kind of coach. Cane is doing his job. Cane's biggest TO games were early in the season, he has since corrected them and now is scoring, attacking and getting fouled. He will get his turn based on the way he is playing.

I do think that starting is really over rated. Cane doesn't have to start to be effective, I think the last 4 games show that.


Mick is trying to reward both hard work and talent.

 

[cincrulz11]

The Reality is Cane is the better player. And every one knows it. Jenifer has been in the program longer and Mick wants to reward his hard work. But I think by the end of the season Cane is going to be the primary ball handler in every situation.


And I fully expect Cane to start every game next year.


Cronin is an "earn my trust first" kind of coach. Cane is doing his job. Cane's biggest TO games were early in the season, he has since corrected them and now is scoring, attacking and getting fouled. He will get his turn based on the way he is playing.

I do think that starting is really over rated. Cane doesn't have to start to be effective, I think the last 4 games show that.


Mick is trying to reward both hard work and talent.

obviously this is the hope everybody has.


but it is not how mick has treated these situations in the past. the lesser player continued to get at least 20 minutes.

 

[ZCat]

In case anyone is interested in rewatching I have edited the clips from Synergy and compiled into one video. No Commercials or Halftime

https://www.dropbox.com/s/tb567rwzb1n2shr/UCLA.mp4?dl=0

Thanks!! Definitely will watch the first half

 

[CHEER CINCY]

The Reality is Cane is the better player. And every one knows it. Jenifer has been in the program longer and Mick wants to reward his hard work. But I think by the end of the season Cane is going to be the primary ball handler in every situation.


And I fully expect Cane to start every game next year.


Cronin is an "earn my trust first" kind of coach. Cane is doing his job. Cane's biggest TO games were early in the season, he has since corrected them and now is scoring, attacking and getting fouled. He will get his turn based on the way he is playing.

I do think that starting is really over rated. Cane doesn't have to start to be effective, I think the last 4 games show that.


Mick is trying to reward both hard work and talent.

Jenifer’s side of the backboard 3pt attempt was so Jenifer, it hurt. Cane should be running this show...he just needs the head coach to recognize when better talent exists.

 

[waterhead]

Cane has started 3 games including the first game of the year and 3 of the first 4. Cronin wanted Cane to be the starting PG and gave him a chance to.

I think he will be starting again but he had to learn a few things the hard way I guess. I'm ready to give it another go...lol!

 

[david aka the TYZ]

How do you get here? Cane was mistake free too when they started pressing. Evans was the one that had the awful turnover.


Jenifer can come in if he’s gonna keep hitting free throws, but the move was benching Cumberland not Broome. Cumberland can’t be out there being a career 60% ft shooter.


But I still don’t see why cane needed to come out. It did almost feel like mick just had to even their minutes out (similar to how he benched Jenifer the other night basically the entire half for no reason)

I agree. Sad thing is the reason Cane came out wasn't to get the ball out of his hands it was to get it out of Evans hands....... seriously. If you noticed, when Broome was in there Evans was more your de facto point guard. He brought the ball up some, but Cane did mostly, but when it got into the half court cane dumped it at the top of the key to Evans every time and went to the wing. I simply just don't understand it. I know I've taken the side of why Jenifer starts to some heavy flack here, but if Cane's in there he needs to be your pg, not Evans. I love Evans, but he made several really bad passes yesterday that led to turnovers. He's simply not a pg. Mick really doesn't trust Cane running point but he needs to get him to the point where he does plain and simple. Now I'm not completely against the idea of bringing in the "sure handed" (in Micks eyes) ball handler to close out a lead, but I don't understand running Evans at point when Cane is in there. And when Cumberland missed both free throws after also missing the front end of the one and one, you have to get him out of there. At that point all logic points to you're going to get fouled everytime. He should've put Cane back in or at least Moore.

 

[david aka the TYZ]

Sitting Cumberland in that spot was not a bad thought but historically he isn't a bad foul shooter. I hope he turns it around. We need him to be a better player then he was last year especially by years end. I actually think if he was playing better Cane may be getting more minuets as the PG. Williams is coming on a bit but if I need minutes in a close game at the wing I prefer it be Cane.

Cumberland's shot is off. His mechanics look bad. He nailed the one three yesterday, but his other jump shots the past three weeks or so have just looked bad and all five of his free throws look bad. He's flicking the ball sideways or something. It's always been his form, but this year he really seems to be lazier with his follow through or like he's overconfident in his shot and just not as crisp. FT's shouldn't look that bad, especially all five. I'm not trying to knock the kid cause I love his game, but they need to correct whatever is wrong with his shot and quickly. But there's no reason Mick should've kept him in the game. Maybe it hurts his confidence and Mick isn't one to take a guy out for missing shots (as long as they're not bad shot selection), but that lead could've gone to single digits and who knows what happens then and your only finger to point at would be 0-5 from free throw from Cumberland. Fortunately we got some stops and some other players hit some FT's but you can't have a guy on the floor at that point that can't hit free throws.