UCLA

[jacobkdoyle]

It would take a lot for someone to convince me (even if it's Cronin) that Broome could be enough of a liability on D or that our offense doesn't work as well with Broome in the game to account for 16.5 points. In fact I could easily be convinced that Cane is just as good on defense (if not better) because of the size disadvantage with Jenifer. So the 16.5 ppg would have to come from an offense that works better with Jenifer in as opposed to Broome. And if we assume they each play 20 minutes...we are talking about a 33 point differential per game if either played all 40 minutes in this scenario.

This is junk science. Lol.

 

[waterhead]

This is junk science. Lol.

It might be junk but it wouldn't change much under the parameters you offered. I also made sure to note that it doesn't work this way in my last post. I get that. But the argument is clear. Even if we are talking a net 5 ppg I will take it. It would be hard to argue Cane doesn't offer us a net 5 ppg.

 

[jacobkdoyle]

It might be junk but it wouldn't change much under the parameters you offered. I also made sure to note that it doesn't work this way in my last post. I get that. But the argument is clear. Even if we are talking a net 5 ppg I will take it. It would be hard to argue Cane doesn't offer us a net 5 ppg.

I'm just messing with you.

 

[waterhead]

It might be junk but it wouldn't change much under the parameters you offered. I also made sure to note that it doesn't work this way in my last post. I get that. But the argument is clear. Even if we are talking a net 5 ppg I will take it. It would be hard to argue Cane doesn't offer us a net 5 ppg.

Over the last 4 games.

If my numbers are correct. Cane offers 42 points to Justin's 14. 12 assists to 9. 6 steals to 1. 7 rebounds to 2. 1 block to 0. and 7 turnovers to 2.

Let's take the "junk" out of it and let the numbers speak for themselves. Interpret them in any way you want.

 

[waterhead]

I'm just messing with you.

No I agree it's junk science...but there is still a point that remains...lol

 

[cincrulz11]

its only a debate in 1 persons mind. but he's the one that controls the minutes, so there you go.

 

[cincrulz11]

its only a debate in 1 persons mind. but he's the one that controls the minutes, so there you go.

and really i dont think its a debate in his mind either. down the stretch in florida and through important parts of the ucla game he let the best 5 play.

 

[waterhead]

its only a debate in 1 persons mind. but he's the one that controls the minutes, so there you go.

I really think this scenario with Cane and Jenifer is a little different. They are both veterans even if one has another year in the system. One could argue (I guess) that Thomas was more seasoned than Evans was as a frosh. Sr vs frosh I think? One could argue that KJ knew where to be and defended well enough to play even with Cumberland being a better player offensively. KJ a Sr vs a frosh. Even in the case of Caupain vs Guyn...we had a player that was a better defender and had one more year under his belt. Defense being a big deal to Cronin.

With Cane and Jenifer...Cane is a 4th year junior compared to Jenifer being a 3rd year junior. I'm not sure Jenifer is a better defender. Kyle came in and took a position that I guess Quadri could have had if we were going by seniority. Clark came in when we had nobody else around at his position. Jacob only had to deal with one year of Thomas. Cumberland only had to deal with one year of KJ.

Either way I would rather have the best man on the court and generally speaking we did when it mattered in March. We still fell short...but maybe we could have been better had Cronin given more minutes to the better players over the years in early games. In the end I don't think our teams were good enough to make a big impact in March but maybe we could have been better.

 

[cincrulz11]

Even in the case of Caupain vs Guyn...we had a player that was a better defender and had one more year under his belt. Defense being a big deal to Cronin.

the case with them is particularly funny. mick just really liked guyn. had it not been for his injury, guyn would have played 25+ minutes caupains sophomore year because mick moved him to SG. then when guyn got hurt mick filled his spot with Cobb/KJ.

 

[cincrulz11]

Defense being a big deal to Cronin.

it is, and these stats can be debatable because its clearly not an exact science, but defensive rating for the season has Jenifer has the worst defender on the roster. he's also the only player on the team with a negative DBPM (defensive box plus/minus a box score estimate of the defensive points per 100 possessions a player contributed above a league-average player)


i mean it kinda matches up with what i see in the game, jenifer can't keep up with the quicker guards and the taller ones can shoot over him.

 

[jacobkdoyle]

it is, and these stats can be debatable because its clearly not an exact science, but defensive rating for the season has Jenifer has the worst defender on the roster. he's also the only player on the team with a negative DBPM (defensive box plus/minus a box score estimate of the defensive points per 100 possessions a player contributed above a league-average player)


i mean it kinda matches up with what i see in the game, jenifer can't keep up with the quicker guards and the taller ones can shoot over him.

Big time.

 

[waterhead]

the case with them is particularly funny. mick just really liked guyn. had it not been for his injury, guyn would have played 25+ minutes caupains sophomore year because mick moved him to SG. then when guyn got hurt mick filled his spot with Cobb/KJ.

Nice to know we are filling spots with better players now I guess. Cronin seems to be talking more now about scoring 70 points on the road than he ever has. Putting the ball in the bucket sets up our press etc. We never really had that luxury before and I don't think I have heard Cronin talking about it much in the past. In the past it's been about defense especially on the road. Now he's talking about scoring points and putting the ball in the basket to set up the D.

Small victories I guess. It's a slow process for a stubborn coach.

 

[waterhead]

it is, and these stats can be debatable because its clearly not an exact science, but defensive rating for the season has Jenifer has the worst defender on the roster. he's also the only player on the team with a negative DBPM (defensive box plus/minus a box score estimate of the defensive points per 100 possessions a player contributed above a league-average player)


i mean it kinda matches up with what i see in the game, jenifer can't keep up with the quicker guards and the taller ones can shoot over him.

I agree 100% and the first 5 minutes of the UCLA game was exhibition A!

 

[jacobkdoyle]

Nice to know we are filling spots with better players now I guess. Cronin seems to be talking more now about scoring 70 points on the road than he ever has. Putting the ball in the bucket sets up our press etc. We never really had that luxury before and I don't think I have heard Cronin talking about it much in the past. In the past it's been about defense especially on the road. Now he's talking about scoring points and putting the ball in the basket to set up the D.

Small victories I guess. It's a slow process for a stubborn coach.

He's always talked about needing to score to set up defense. Not necessarily the 70 point number, but philosophically. He just didn't always have the guys to do it the way he wants.

 

[waterhead]

He's always talked about needing to score to set up defense. Not necessarily the 70 point number, but philosophically. He just didn't always have the guys to do it the way he wants.

I don't know about that. I have heard him talking about the importance of scoring this year more than any other year I can remember. Maybe it's because he has the horses now...IDK.

 

[WAITE HOYT 2]

Bottom line for me is Coach values both players and uses both in what he thinks is their strengths and tries to apply those stengths to win the game. It's not always as simple as looking at the stats and saying this guy should play this many minutes. I look for the team to continue to improve and be at its best in March.

 

[AZ BEARCAT]

I think UCLA will win games in the pac 12, not a bad team. UC team was very well coached and just a great game. I think Ball was on E-BAY yesterday he was selling a pair of sunglasses.

 

[jacobkdoyle]

Bottom line for me is Coach values both players and uses both in what he thinks is their strengths and tries to apply those stengths to win the game. It's not always as simple as looking at the stats and saying this guy should play this many minutes. I look for the team to continue to improve and be at its best in March.

Not always, no. But sometimes it is that simple. We could go with the eye test though if you want, instead of stats. But you'd get the same answer.

 

[jacobkdoyle]

I just know this...and I swear I'm done with this topic and discussing Washington lol...If we get knocked out in March in a game where Jenifer/Broome split the minutes 50/50, I probably won't be thrilled.

 

[WAITE HOYT 2]

Not always, no. But sometimes it is that simple. We could go with the eye test though if you want, instead of stats. But you'd get the same answer.

Jake I prefer to go with the person most qualified to make the decision. You can take that anyway you want.