'15 NC State Transfer PF Kyle Washington (Commit)

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JackBauer151 said:
I get that you are very tied to this point of view but it's starting to go off the rails a little bit. First of all Mick is not paid to recruit at any level. He is paid to WIN. I dont care about rankings. Would you rather be St. Johns or Memphis? Those programs get top 100 kids every year. They have no culture and their kids run a muck. Then they miss the tournament and have to think about changing coaches and rebuilding. You make it sound like our recruiting has been a complete black hole. That's just not true. If you care about rankings just look at the last three classes. We've brought in a 5 star, a 4 star, and another 4 star. Troy was a 3. Justin Jenifer was a 4 for a long time. The recruiting has been good given the state of the program. It's not been great. But just because we've missed on two players who were once committed to Charlotte and UNC Ashville lets not lose perspective. To borrow a term from you that you used toward Jason. "That's cute" that you listed all those lower tier schools when describing a recruit that we offered. To try to base the skill of a certain recruit based off his offer list this early in the process is dumb and lazy. It means absolutely nothing. You know who else had those type of offers? Pretty much every recruit before they blew up. It's what Brison Gresham had and we were on him very early. If you would have looked at his list you would have thought why are we recruiting this guy? Then you look up and bam he has offers from Texas, OSU, and LSU. Finally I've seen you and others say this on different threads. That if we dont land HUUUGGGEEEEE recruits in 2016 we will be rebuilding and that is our track record. What on earth are you talking about? The 2016-17 team will have Troy and Kev as seniors. Gary and Quadri as Juniors, Evans, Jenifer, and Scott as sophomores. (Not including any transfers. The transfer season or market is not over. We havent filled those two scholly's YET. Washington, Coleby, Chuckwu, and more are still out there.) Even before we add anybody there is a lot of talent on that team. We will not be rebuilding. As far as our track record this past year was the first rebuild since the program got back on track and STILL MADE THE DAMN TOURNAMENT. Look, I get your overall point. You want better recruits that will hopefully result in deeper runs. The staff has a problem with closing certain recruits down. Is that a result of facilities, budget, conference, style of play, perception, or just shortcomings as salesmen? Yes. No. Maybe. I dont know. Im sure all of those can be improved upon which would yield better results. Some of them we know for a fact are (new locker room, arena, lounge area ect.) So while I understand the frustration and at times can even agree with you, your criticism at this point verges from reality. Has the recruiting been great? No. But considering all the factors the program is up against it has been pretty damn good.
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TREMENDOUS post
 
JackBauer151 said:
I get that you are very tied to this point of view but it's starting to go off the rails a little bit. First of all Mick is not paid to recruit at any level. He is paid to WIN. I dont care about rankings. Would you rather be St. Johns or Memphis? Those programs get top 100 kids every year. They have no culture and their kids run a muck. Then they miss the tournament and have to think about changing coaches and rebuilding. You make it sound like our recruiting has been a complete black hole. That's just not true. If you care about rankings just look at the last three classes. We've brought in a 5 star, a 4 star, and another 4 star. Troy was a 3. Justin Jenifer was a 4 for a long time. The recruiting has been good given the state of the program. It's not been great. But just because we've missed on two players who were once committed to Charlotte and UNC Ashville lets not lose perspective. To borrow a term from you that you used toward Jason. "That's cute" that you listed all those lower tier schools when describing a recruit that we offered. To try to base the skill of a certain recruit based off his offer list this early in the process is dumb and lazy. It means absolutely nothing. You know who else had those type of offers? Pretty much every recruit before they blew up. It's what Brison Gresham had and we were on him very early. If you would have looked at his list you would have thought why are we recruiting this guy? Then you look up and bam he has offers from Texas, OSU, and LSU. Finally I've seen you and others say this on different threads. That if we dont land HUUUGGGEEEEE recruits in 2016 we will be rebuilding and that is our track record. What on earth are you talking about? The 2016-17 team will have Troy and Kev as seniors. Gary and Quadri as Juniors, Evans, Jenifer, and Scott as sophomores. (Not including any transfers. The transfer season or market is not over. We havent filled those two scholly's YET. Washington, Coleby, Chuckwu, and more are still out there.) Even before we add anybody there is a lot of talent on that team. We will not be rebuilding. As far as our track record this past year was the first rebuild since the program got back on track and STILL MADE THE DAMN TOURNAMENT. Look, I get your overall point. You want better recruits that will hopefully result in deeper runs. The staff has a problem with closing certain recruits down. Is that a result of facilities, budget, conference, style of play, perception, or just shortcomings as salesmen? Yes. No. Maybe. I dont know. Im sure all of those can be improved upon which would yield better results. Some of them we know for a fact are (new locker room, arena, lounge area ect.) So while I understand the frustration and at times can even agree with you, your criticism at this point verges from reality. Has the recruiting been great? No. But considering all the factors the program is up against it has been pretty damn good.
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Typical apologist attitude. Its funny that excuses cycle through this board. First it was Mick took over a program with the death penalty, then its facilities, shoe contracts, handlers, etc... Making the tournament is great...we even barely beat Purdue this year. Fans that accept being mediocre get just that...mediocrity.
 
Bcatfollower said:
Typical apologist attitude. Its funny that excuses cycle through this board. First it was Mick took over a program with the death penalty, then its facilities, shoe contracts, handlers, etc... Making the tournament is great...we even barely beat Purdue this year. Fans that accept being mediocre get just that...mediocrity.
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Im not apologizing for shit. I look at the situation and make an assessment of what I see. The problems I listed are not excuses. They are realities. They are obstacles the program faces. And they have an effect on the head coach's ability to recruit elite players. You cant snap your fingers and just recruit better. It doesnt work that way. If you are too ignorant to realize that, that is your problem. What has been accomplished is not mediocre. Also it's not over. As you build a reputation things get easier. Are you actually making the argument that we should get the same recruits no matter what the state of the program is? If you are then you are beyond help. I'll be over here in reality feel free to join anytime....
 
Bcatfollower said:
Typical apologist attitude. Its funny that excuses cycle through this board. First it was Mick took over a program with the death penalty, then its facilities, shoe contracts, handlers, etc... Making the tournament is great...we even barely beat Purdue this year. Fans that accept being mediocre get just that...mediocrity.
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UC basketball has been basically the same(except for Mick's 1st 4 years) for the last 19 years. That is, get to the NCAA tourney and win 0 or 1 game and every 10 years or so make a S16. It's what the program is. I don't think that is mediocrity. Would we all like it to be better? Sure, but I'm not sure it's gonna happen whether you replace coaches or not.
 
JackBauer151 said:
Im not apologizing for shit. I look at the situation and make an assessment of what I see. The problems I listed are not excuses. They are realities. They are obstacles the program faces. And they have an effect on the head coach's ability to recruit elite players. You cant snap your fingers and just recruit better. It doesnt work that way. If you are too ignorant to realize that, that is your problem. What has been accomplished is not mediocre. Also it's not over. As you build a reputation things get easier. Are you actually making the argument that we should get the same recruits no matter what the state of the program is? If you are then you are beyond help. I'll be over here in reality feel free to join anytime....
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Mick isn't getting any younger. I've seen coaches turn around recruiting in less than 2months over Mick 10yrs
 
Huggins is now winning at a higher percentage due to the fact that he is in the BIG 12. YES he had great years in c-USA. We can be thankful that we have two coaches that want to coach us in the AAC. Go ahead and argue with me on that but you can take that to the bank.We should be positive and ready to enjoy a great season with even greater things ahead of us. GO CATS!!
 
JackBauer151 said:
Im not apologizing for shit. I look at the situation and make an assessment of what I see. The problems I listed are not excuses. They are realities. They are obstacles the program faces. And they have an effect on the head coach's ability to recruit elite players. You cant snap your fingers and just recruit better. It doesnt work that way. If you are too ignorant to realize that, that is your problem. What has been accomplished is not mediocre. Also it's not over. As you build a reputation things get easier. Are you actually making the argument that we should get the same recruits no matter what the state of the program is? If you are then you are beyond help. I'll be over here in reality feel free to join anytime....
Click to expand...

Perhaps you're the ignorant one to assume things are getting better. It looks like we are in the same place we were five years ago. He just can't get over the hump; if things are getting easier as he builds a reputation then where are the results? Or are you saying if we give him 10 more years he could land better recruits and be a contender because the trends aren't showing that progress over the last five.
 
I will give you a hint. He coaches a CAT and his first name starts with a M. Do not tell me that it means nothing. That is bragging rights for me a couple thousand miles away. We have a GREAT future!!!
 
AZ BEARCAT said:
I will give you a hint. He coaches a CAT and his first name starts with a M. Do not tell me that it means nothing. That is bragging rights for me a couple thousand miles away. We have a GREAT future!!!
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Yea, and he will end up a trivia question. Who had the most wins under 50 and never won anything important? Need a hint?
 
Bcatfollower said:
Perhaps you're the ignorant one to assume things are getting better. It looks like we are in the same place we were five years ago. He just can't get over the hump; if things are getting easier as he builds a reputation then where are the results? Or are you saying if we give him 10 more years he could land better recruits and be a contender because the trends aren't showing that progress over the last five.
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Nope, Im not. If you think we are in the same place as we were 5 years ago then you are blind. WHERE ARE THE RESULTS?!?!?! He started a program from SCRATCH. We have made 5 NCAA tournaments since then. Over that span we spent 4 of the last 5 years in the top 25. Two of those years cracked the top 10. Oh and surprise we will have a top 15 team next year. A sweet 16 and a first team all american. Do you have any idea how $%^$%#$$# hard that all is? Not to mention he has done it with a shitty budget, shitty facilities, conference change and uncertainty, 3 athletic directors, 3 presidents, and was on the verge of academic probation. We are back in the top 10 percentile of the sport. You want to continue to progress I get that. But the fact you belittle what has been accomplished is mind boggling. It's not that you have a higher standard than me. It's your lack of comprehension of what it takes to be this good and how hard it is to be even better. Tell me what Mick is supposed to say to the recruit who is about to choose between the Bearcats and the Cardinals? Just recently we lost these recruits to Louisville (Herrell, Rozier, Behanan, Snider, Mitchell, Onuaku,). That's just recently. They take a visit to Cincy and then they show up at the YUM Center. It's like going to an 18 year old and saying do you want the Lambhorgini or the Carolla. No matter how much you explain the Carolla is the better option because of safety, gas mileage, practicality, and price. It will not matter. They are 18 and they want the Lamborghini. It's like asking a person with a strained hamstring to win a race against a well seasoned sprinter. There is no sales pitch. There is no tactical maneuver. There is no strategy you can implement that will win. So you find other ways to combat it. Finally you are basing your opinion that we are not going forward based on the NCAA tournament. I dont know what to tell you. It's a one game elimination tournament with a lot of really good teams. There are seeding, matchups, location, and just luck that go into the tournament. Sometimes the cookie doesnt crumble your way. Wichita State went into the tourney undefeated and had to play UK in the round of 32. Then lost. That doesnt diminish the players you have, the season you have, or the progress you are making. Would it be better to go further, of course! But you make adjustments and build on the progress. You dont fold up the tent and rebuild from scratch. We are seeing that. The last two recruiting classes are heavily focused on offense. Andrew Rowsey wouldnt have gotten a sniff from mick 5 years ago. He recognizes the offense needs to be improved. He has changed the philosophy accordingly. The negativity is just getting annoying when we are about to have the best team Mick has had on paper and the lack of respect for what has been accomplished, how hard it has been, and how good we have actually had it.
 
JackBauer151 said:
Nope, Im not. If you think we are in the same place as we were 5 years ago then you are blind. WHERE ARE THE RESULTS?!?!?! He started a program from SCRATCH. We have made 5 NCAA tournaments since then. Over that span we spent 4 of the last 5 years in the top 25. Two of those years cracked the top 10. Oh and surprise we will have a top 15 team next year. A sweet 16 and a first team all american. Do you have any idea how $%^$%#$$# hard that all is? Not to mention he has done it with a shitty budget, shitty facilities, conference change and uncertainty, 3 athletic directors, 3 presidents, and was on the verge of academic probation. We are back in the top 10 percentile of the sport. You want to continue to progress I get that. But the fact you belittle what has been accomplished is mind boggling. It's not that you have a higher standard than me. It's your lack of comprehension of what it takes to be this good and how hard it is to be even better. Tell me what Mick is supposed to say to the recruit who is about to choose between the Bearcats and the Cardinals? Just recently we lost these recruits to Louisville (Herrell, Rozier, Behanan, Snider, Mitchell, Onuaku,). That's just recently. They take a visit to Cincy and then they show up at the YUM Center. It's like going to an 18 year old and saying do you want the Lambhorgini or the Carolla. No matter how much you explain the Carolla is the better option because of safety, gas mileage, practicality, and price. It will not matter. They are 18 and they want the Lamborghini. It's like asking a person with a strained hamstring to win a race against a well seasoned sprinter. There is no sales pitch. There is no tactical maneuver. There is no strategy you can implement that will win. So you find other ways to combat it. Finally you are basing your opinion that we are not going forward based on the NCAA tournament. I dont know what to tell you. It's a one game elimination tournament with a lot of really good teams. There are seeding, matchups, location, and just luck that go into the tournament. Sometimes the cookie doesnt crumble your way. Wichita State went into the tourney undefeated and had to play UK in the round of 32. Then lost. That doesnt diminish the players you have, the season you have, or the progress you are making. Would it be better to go further, of course! But you make adjustments and build on the progress. You dont fold up the tent and rebuild from scratch. We are seeing that. The last two recruiting classes are heavily focused on offense. Andrew Rowsey wouldnt have gotten a sniff from mick 5 years ago. He recognizes the offense needs to be improved. He has changed the philosophy accordingly. The negativity is just getting annoying when we are about to have the best team Mick has had on paper and the lack of respect for what has been accomplished, how hard it has been, and how good we have actually had it.
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Same excuses year after year. Tell me how X out recruits us every year? Same city, up until last year a worse conference, multiple coaching changes, more recent tourney success, and that's just one school the list could go on. I will leave it at this, unlike you I don't believe Mick has done anything special for a top 30 paid coach. He plays a brand of basketball that is not particularly exciting to watch, doesn't develop young players well (other than sk), tells fans every year how they are focused on playing up tempo then doesn't, and cant land better prospects. If is sole redeeming quality is that he is willing to stay at u.c. then something is wrong.
 
Bcatfollower said:
Same excuses year after year. Tell me how X out recruits us every year? Same city, up until last year a worse conference, multiple coaching changes, more recent tourney success, and that's just one school the list could go on. I will leave it at this, unlike you I don't believe Mick has done anything special for a top 30 paid coach. He plays a brand of basketball that is not particularly exciting to watch, doesn't develop young players well (other than sk), tells fans every year how they are focused on playing up tempo then doesn't, and cant land better prospects. If is sole redeeming quality is that he is willing to stay at u.c. then something is wrong.
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ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ
 
We can go on and on and on. I for one like to see the success of the teams around the greater cincy area do well. I am sure you can go on X sites and see how can Butler almost beat Duke in the final game by one shot and that should have been us. More power to all of us. Cincinnati can get to a final four just about as anyone. Everyone on the west coast will say nothing positive about UC. They say we have had a great football program for the last 10yrs and always a great basketball program. People always give me jabs when they see me in my UC gear please beat Ohio ST.
 

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