Coach Fickell

[NKY Bearcat]

thats odd because you apologized for it. If you can not see that both issues are a problem I really don't know what to tell you.

I'll offer you the same deal as I did Jake let's move on from one another. I'd use the ignore feature but as a mod it doesn't allow me to. Sorry it has come to this. Have a nice holiday season.

Waite, the issue is the lack of consistency in your arguments. You state UC is not getting a player because either "playing time" or "conference". You only choose the one that fits the situation to continue a negative outlook. So in the case of Keith Williams you go playing time for why Dayton will get him, and we all know how that worked out. Now you are arguing that all football players will choose OSU based on conference, over playing time at UC. I would love to hear your opinion on what recruits UC is supposed to get then.

Also putting people on ignore because they are challenging your arguments doesn't move the conversation forward. You may be the nice old guy on the boards, but you still will get called out for not defending your stance.

 

[WAITE HOYT 2]

Waite, the issue is the lack of consistency in your arguments. You state UC is not getting a player because either "playing time" or "conference". You only choose the one that fits the situation to continue a negative outlook. So in the case of Keith Williams you go playing time for why Dayton will get him, and we all know how that worked out. Now you are arguing that all football players will choose OSU based on conference, over playing time at UC. I would love to hear your opinion on what recruits UC is supposed to get then.

Also putting people on ignore because they are challenging your arguments doesn't move the conversation forward. You may be the nice old guy on the boards, but you still will get called out for not defending your stance.

have no issue with someone challenging my position. I actually think I learn more from people who do not think exactly like I do.

The reality is playing time is a huge issue in landing kids. As well as playing in a P5 conference. The gap will only get wider as well.

It's also my opinion we wil never football recruit with the TOSU of the world. In my 63 years we never have. I actually agreed with someone who said we need to stop worrying about TOSU and concentrate on KY and Louisville and tjose schools.

 

[UCBearcats]

Charlie Strong's deal will be less than 2 mil/year at USF. Major Applewhite making just over 1 mil/year at Houston.

How is it that Bohn managed to get negotiated into paying Luke Fickell 2.3 mil/year? Nothing against Coach Fickell here because good for him but why in the world are we paying a guy who was literally on no one else's list and was making just over 600k/year a salary of 2.3 mil/year??

How does this impact our ability to pay for top assistants on a staff that will most likely need them?

Mind boggling stuff here, Bohnhead really is a clown.

 

[WAITE HOYT 2]

Charlie Strong's deal will be less than 2 mil/year at USF. Major Applewhite making just over 1 mil/year at Houston.

How is it that Bohn managed to get negotiated into paying Luke Fickell 2.3 mil/year? Nothing against Coach Fickell here because good for him but why in the world are we paying a guy who was literally on no one else's list and was making just over 600k/year a salary of 2.3 mil/year??

How does this impact our ability to pay for top assistants on a staff that will most likely need them?

Mind boggling stuff here, Bohnhead really is a clown.

what is their buy out language? I know the Kiffin to Houston fell through because of the buy out.

 

[UCBearcats]

what is their buy out language? I know the Kiffin to Houston fell through because of the buy out.

Strong's is weird because Texas money is tied into it and Applewhite's is the remaining balance of his contract.

Not really sure what that has to do with anything though, our buyout with Fickell is pretty standard. Starts at 3.5 and goes down 500k every year. So if he leaves in 3 or years it's going to cost a school 2 or 1.5 mil to buy him out. We didn't really get a great deal on that end either.

 

[WAITE HOYT 2]

Strong's is weird because Texas money is tied into it and Applewhite's is the remaining balance of his contract.

Not really sure what that has to do with anything though, our buyout with Fickell is pretty standard. Starts at 3.5 and goes down 500k every year. So if he leaves in 3 or years it's going to cost a school 2 or 1.5 mil to buy him out. We didn't really get a great deal on that end either.

Certainly is a bunch of money for a guy with a very limited amount of HC experience.

 

[jacobkdoyle]

Charlie Strong's deal will be less than 2 mil/year at USF. Major Applewhite making just over 1 mil/year at Houston.

How is it that Bohn managed to get negotiated into paying Luke Fickell 2.3 mil/year? Nothing against Coach Fickell here because good for him but why in the world are we paying a guy who was literally on no one else's list and was making just over 600k/year a salary of 2.3 mil/year??

How does this impact our ability to pay for top assistants on a staff that will most likely need them?

Mind boggling stuff here, Bohnhead really is a clown.

Really weird. I still never got an answer on who else we interviewed either.

 

[UCBearcats]

Certainly is a bunch of money for a guy with a very limited amount of HC experience.

It's really head scratching. Again, good for Fickell because he's just trying to get paid as well as possible but is Mike Bohn serious here?

The crazy thing is that this deal was signed before Strong's deal. Strong agreed to take less than 2 mil/year at USF knowing that Fickell had just signed for 2.3 with UC. We also signed Fickell after the terms of Applewhite's deal were disclosed. Houston is paying significantly less for Applewhite and has a much better buyout deal.

The Applewhite contract should have been the blueprint for Fickell's deal. It just reeks of incompetence when you really dig into it.

PS - USF is only on the hook for half of Strong and his staff's contacts for the first 3 years with Texas picking up the tab on the other half!

 

[WAITE HOYT 2]

It's really head scratching. Again, good for Fickell because he's just trying to get paid as well as possible but is Mike Bohn serious here?

The crazy thing is that this deal was signed before Strong's deal. Strong agreed to take less than 2 mil/year at USF knowing that Fickell had just signed for 2.3 with UC. We also signed Fickell after the terms of Applewhite's deal were disclosed. Houston is paying significantly less for Applewhite and has a much better buyout deal.

The Applewhite contract should have been the blueprint for Fickell's deal. It just reeks of incompetence when you really dig into it.

PS - USF is only on the hook for half of Strong and his staff's contacts for the first 3 years with Texas picking up the tab on the other half!

Sounds like Fickell already bested those guys in recruiting his agent. Lol!!

 

[UCBearcats]

Sounds like Fickell already bested those guys in recruiting his agent. Lol!!

Someone told me Fickell didn't even have an agent and his negotiations were handled through Urban's agent. I have no idea how true that is, but I heard it.

Wild stuff either way........oh well, it is what it is now.

 

[WAITE HOYT 2]

Someone told me Fickell didn't even have an agent and his negotiations were handled through Urban's agent. I have no idea how true that is, but I heard it.

Wild stuff either way........oh well, it is what it is now.

hopefully he delivers on his contract.

 

[UCBearcats]

hopefully he delivers on his contract.

Amen

 

[Jon Rycek]

Waite, the issue is the lack of consistency in your arguments. You state UC is not getting a player because either "playing time" or "conference". You only choose the one that fits the situation to continue a negative outlook. So in the case of Keith Williams you go playing time for why Dayton will get him, and we all know how that worked out. Now you are arguing that all football players will choose OSU based on conference, over playing time at UC. I would love to hear your opinion on what recruits UC is supposed to get then.

Also putting people on ignore because they are challenging your arguments doesn't move the conversation forward. You may be the nice old guy on the boards, but you still will get called out for not defending your stance.

So all these people here, every one of you can't understand this simple logic? Do all of you look for the same thing when applying for a job? Aren't certain things more important to others? I don't see why it is so hard to understand that in general conference affiliation is important to MODT kids, not all, but a lot. And how is it so far fetched that playing time is important to some kids also. And he'll, I'd even venture a guess that both are important to some kids. These are fickle high school kids, who know what is drawing each one of them.

 

[Jon Rycek]

Charlie Strong's deal will be less than 2 mil/year at USF. Major Applewhite making just over 1 mil/year at Houston.

How is it that Bohn managed to get negotiated into paying Luke Fickell 2.3 mil/year? Nothing against Coach Fickell here because good for him but why in the world are we paying a guy who was literally on no one else's list and was making just over 600k/year a salary of 2.3 mil/year??

How does this impact our ability to pay for top assistants on a staff that will most likely need them?

Mind boggling stuff here, Bohnhead really is a clown.

Yeah not sure how's he got so much right off the bat, I have no problem playing that much moves he proves he's a winner, but their were some better candidates getting less, doesn't make much sense

 

[waterhead]

So all these people here, every one of you can't understand this simple logic? Do all of you look for the same thing when applying for a job? Aren't certain things more important to others? I don't see why it is so hard to understand that in general conference affiliation is important to MODT kids, not all, but a lot. And how is it so far fetched that playing time is important to some kids also. And he'll, I'd even venture a guess that both are important to some kids. These are fickle high school kids, who know what is drawing each one of them.

The implication was a recruit would pick OSU over UC because it's a better football program in a good conference.

If we apply that same logic to UC vs a lesser program some in here would point to playing time as potentially hurting our chances.

I am just asking the same logic be used in both cases.

 

[Jon Rycek]

The implication was a recruit would pick OSU over UC because it's a better football program in a good conference.

If we apply that same logic to UC vs a lesser program some in here would point to playing time as potentially hurting our chances.

I am just asking the same logic be used in both cases.

And I'm sure that it does, if you think conference affiliation is the only reason kids would choose OSU over us I think you're missing a few pieces. But to your point, I'm sure some kids choose UC over some bigger schools because of playing time, just like some other kids choose smaller schools over UC because they feel they'll get more playing time there. And on the other hand people pick PSY for its prestige over UC, and Choose UC for its over other achools. It's not cut and dry like some of you like to make it out to be.

 

[WAITE HOYT 2]

The implication was a recruit would pick OSU over UC because it's a better football program in a good conference.

If we apply that same logic to UC vs a lesser program some in here would point to playing time as potentially hurting our chances.

I am just asking the same logic be used in both cases.

WH again it all plays in to the decision.

 

[UCBearcats]

And I'm sure that it does, if you think conference affiliation is the only reason kids would choose OSU over us I think you're missing a few pieces. But to your point, I'm sure some kids choose UC over some bigger schools because of playing time, just like some other kids choose smaller schools over UC because they feel they'll get more playing time there. And on the other hand people pick PSY for its prestige over UC, and Choose UC for its over other achools. It's not cut and dry like some of you like to make it out to be.

This is such a subjective thing for anyone to be arguing. Every kid is different. Are there kids who could play at OSU and might choose UC instead for a variety of reasons? Sure there are. Are there also kids who feel as if they're too talented to consider UC and would only consider top flight programs? Sure there are.

There's no point in trying to project what any given kid might be thinking. For anyone to say that a kid would or wouldn't consider anything is a completely fictional argument.

Most rational people realize that OSU is a more attractive offer for 99% of the kids out there. Fickell seems to understand that we're not competing with OSU for recruits, we're going after the right kid for UC's program. That's all that matters, anything else is just opinion based arguing for argument's sake.

 

[WAITE HOYT 2]

This is such a subjective thing for anyone to be arguing. Every kid is different. Are there kids who could play at OSU and might choose UC instead for a variety of reasons? Sure there are. Are there also kids who feel as if they're too talented to consider UC and would only consider top flight programs? Sure there are.

There's no point in trying to project what any given kid might be thinking. For anyone to say that a kid would or wouldn't consider anything is a completely fictional argument.

Most rational people realize that OSU is a more attractive offer for 99% of the kids out there. Fickell seems to understand that we're not competing with OSU for recruits, we're going after the right kid for UC's program. That's all that matters, anything else is just opinion based arguing for argument's sake.

Good post! My thinking centered on a personal experience. My son was recruited by a bunch of schools. The things that mattered to him was who was ahead of him in the line up and the prestige of the university and its academic clout in the real world. In his visits schools often asked who was recruiting him. It's even worse now with handlers and the Networks getting more power and involvement.

I have always wondered especially in football why we couldn't have a better program. We have Some of the best HS talent in the country in this city.

 

[UCBearcats]

Good post! My thinking centered on a personal experience. My son was recruited by a bunch of schools. The things that mattered to him was who was ahead of him in the line up and the prestige of the university and its academic clout in the real world. In his visits schools often asked who was recruiting him. It's even worse now with handlers and the Networks getting more power and involvement.

I have always wondered especially in football why we couldn't have a better program. We have Some of the best HS talent in the country in this city.

IMO it's all about coaching (I consider recruiting part of coaching). We had one of the best programs in the country for a stretch of about 8 years. It started with Dantonio building the foundation and Kelly came in and raised the bar to the highest it's ever been. Butch Jones did a good job of not allowing the bar to fall much.

That all ended when we hired TT but there's no reason why we can't build it back up. I really do believe it's 95% coaching and 5% all the rest of the reasons people constantly harp on. Kelly didn't have a Top 25 program, a newly upgraded Nippert, or adequate facilities when he arrived at UC but he won anyways. He won and raised the bar to make it possible for the rest of those things to happen. We're in a better place today because of the job he did while he was here.

A great coach can have that effect. The unfortunate reality for UC being in the situation we're in is that there's always going to be a more attractive job for that great coach to hop to. I don't think that changes regardless of our P5 status. A lot of people forget how bad Alabama was for 2 decades before Saban got there. They were a joke in the SEC and went through a number of coaches until they found the right one. Now they're the undisputed GOAT in college football. They didn't do it because they're Alabama (that certainly didn't make it any harder though), it happened because they hired a great coach.

IMO the most dangerous coach is the mediocre coach. A guy who doesn't raise the bar but also doesn't do enough to get himself fired. We need a great coach who can raise the bar again, if he leaves he leaves but hopefully he leaves us in a better place than we're in today. That's why I'm not a huge Mick fan. The bar for our bball program has been lowered over the last decade and I really hope that doesn't happen to football. I don't want to go back to the Minter days where we're happy with just making a bowl game.