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MDW79

Well-known member
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I've seen quite a few people say that we simply cannot afford to fire Brannen. That without cause, we would owe him 4.5 million, which isn't an option.

When I first saw this figure my first thought was "Yeah, that makes sense". But in thinking about it more, I really don't think it does. In fact, not at all.

For discussion's sake, let's all just agree that we cannot afford 4.5 million to move on. Well, what about next year? If he stinks next year, can we move on then?

We would have to pay him 3.375 mil to fire in 2022. Can we afford that?

If your answer is yes, we can afford 3.375 mil (but not 4.5) then I really have to wonder if this University is truly looking at the big picture. Can we really delay this any further because of a measily 1.125 million dollars?

If your answer is no, we can't afford 3.375 mil either then that means were stuck with him for two more years. We're also stuck paying him a 1 million dollar bonus in March of 2022, which kind of negates a lot of these money issues referenced above. (If you fire him after 2 more years the payout is 2.25 mil + the 1 mil dollar bonus the year prior, so you're right back to a total of 3.25 mil invested)

So when exactly can we afford to fire him? Next year (3.375), the year after (3.25), or finally the year after that, after 3 more years (2.215)? Can we ever afford to fire him?

I'm not writing any of this to say we 100% have to fire John Brannen. I personally think we should but I'd be willing to listen to reasons that we should not. I just don't think those reasons should be money related.

We have a brand new 100 million dollar rennovation at 5/3. We're always looking to move into a Power 5 (I know football drives this, but a quality basketball team doesn't hurt. Especially to a conference like the ACC) There's potential money to be gained or lost by having either good or a shitty basketball program.

I just think that if the school and the AD decide to stick with Brannen it's gotta be for the right reasons (not sure there are any). This athletic department had a surplus of 8 million dollars last year, (where did it go?) and the school itself has plenty of cash for all sorts of projects. Move some of that into a payout if need be.

You can't let the difference between 4.5 million and 3.375 million prevent from you from torpedoing your historic basketball program. And you can't commit to Brannen for 2 more years if you still think the 3.375 million is too expensive.

Curious to hear some of your thoughts on this. I'll wrap it up with this, it's going to have to be more than money to convince me this guy needs to stay, and I'm struggling to find those reasons.
 
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TheLivingLegend said:
Not happening. Time for Brannen to get some recruits in quickly.
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Alright, so when do you think we could afford to fire him? Because it seems to me if the excuse is money then we're going to be stuck with him for a minumum of two more years.

I hope the Unniversity isn't being short-sided here. The amount of damage that can be done over this time is pretty scary. Although, the amount of damage that's already been done is pretty scary too.

To each their own, I can't see this turning out good. And no matter when we fire him we're going to be stuck paying out a decent chuck of change. Hell, the guy is due a 1 mil dollar bonus next March.
 
Chris Holtmann

Yeah, he's made just one Sweet Sixteen in 11 years as a head coach and just lost in a 2-15 game today to Oral Roberts, but he's much better regarded than that little midget we used to have.

Is it time for Ohio State move on though? Maybe we could bring him in through the transfer portal?
 
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Archie Miller

The recently-fired Indiana head coach. Pretty good track record: one second weekend tournament appearance in the last decade, and also makes the tournament about every other year. I hear he was good at Indiana.

Maybe a guy to consider if Jeff Wyler and Mike Valentine pony up for Brannen'a buyout.
 
https://theathletic.com/2466105/2021/03/20/david-dejulius-speaks-out-on-his-support-for-coach-john-brannen-commitment-to-cincinnati-basketball/?amp
 
I continue to hold out hope that Brannen will be fired. Until the administration comes out with a statement of support for Brannen, I think there is a chance. It's hard to believe they will remain completely silent.

Cincy Slangin podcast says that they payout drops by $500k if they fire him after April 1st. Not sure where that number comes from, but if true it could mean they are waiting.

Saunders post that on that "door isn't closed" is almost certainly hinting at the firing of Brannen. Saunders burned bridges with Brannen, he had multiple twitter DM's leak that say he is leaving because of Brannen. The anonymous player saying he loved everything about being here, except the coach is almost certainly Saunders. Brannen's wife liked posts trashing Saunders for leaving. If the door isn't closed, it's because someone on the inside is still talking to Saunders and telling him Brannen may still be fired.

We are in rebuild mode now. We aren't going to be good next year. So we need to either commit to 2/3 more years of Brannen or fire Brannen now. Waiting to see for 1 year isn't fair to him (he can't recruit for the future) and isn't fair to UC (delays the rebuild).

Maybe it will all be done behind the scenes. Pushing the narrative that the freshmen players were just soft (and please ignore that Sorolla, Rap and Moore left mid-season that Cumberland says he's a mid-major hack, that Harvey was a Sophomore and that the strength coach quit).

But I'd think that if he's going to stay the admin will come out and say he has at least 2 more years and mean it.
 
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skyblade said:
I continue to hold out hope that Brannen will be fired. Until the administration comes out with a statement of support for Brannen, I think there is a chance. It's hard to believe they will remain completely silent.

Cincy Slangin podcast says that they payout drops by $500k if they fire him after April 1st. Not sure where that number comes from, but if true it could mean they are waiting.

Saunders post that on that "door isn't closed" is almost certainly hinting at the firing of Brannen. Saunders burned bridges with Brannen, he had multiple twitter DM's leak that say he is leaving because of Cincinnati. The anonymous player saying he loves everything about being here, except the coach is almost certainly Saunders. Brannen's wife liked posts trashing Saunders for leaving. If the door isn't closed, it's because someone on the inside is still talking to Saunders and telling him Brannen may still be fired.

We are in rebuild mode now. We aren't going to be good next year. So we need to either commit to 2/3 more years of Brannen or fire Brannen now. Waiting to see for 1 year isn't fair to him (he can't recruit for the future) and isn't fair to UC (delays the rebuild).

Maybe it will all be done behind the scenes. Pushing the narrative that the freshmen players were just soft (and please ignore that Sorolla, Rap and Moore left mid-season that Cumberland says he's a mid-major hack, that Harvey was a Sophomore and that the strength coach quit).

But I'd think that if he's going to stay the admin will come out and say he has at least 2 more years and mean it.
Click to expand...

Did you see dd support article? I doubt Brannen is getting fired. 500k is nothing, why wait half a month and then try to start the hiring of a new coach... even if they are looking at options now. Missing this transfer market would be a dagger and well worth 500k
 
Bcatfollower said:
Did you see dd support article? I doubt Brannen is getting fired. 500k is nothing, why wait half a month and then try to start the hiring of a new coach... even if they are looking at options now. Missing this transfer market would be a dagger and well worth 500k
Click to expand...

The DDJ support article is fairly nuanced. He doesn't blame the players who left, says he understands why they did it and that the culture needs to change. That he was closer to the coaches than the other players and an intermediary between the two (the fact that we needed one is a sign of a problem in and of itself). But that he believes in the coaches and that they can and will change.

That's fair, but as a fan I don't think it matters if the coach can change. Brannen wasn't hired to learn how to coach, he wasn't hired to destroy the program to the point that it requires a fresh rebuild in year 3. He was hired to continue a tradition of greatness and instead ran us into the ground.

My view is this, it's going to take a miracle to have an NCAA tournament team next year no matter who is the coach. If you accept that we won't be an NCAA tournament team next year, the question becomes how much does waiting 11 days to fire Brannen hurt us, is it worth 500k? I'd say probably so. Is a rebuild going to be that much harder in 11 days? Probably not.

As I said, the worst thing we can do is wait to see what Brannen does next year. If he is on the hot seat with limited admin support, it makes recruiting even harder and means he has to lean more towards grad transfers over projects.

Either give Brannen 2 years or fire him now. And if they are going to give him 2 years, I'd think they'd come out with a statement of support in light of what has gone on.

Until that statement of support comes out (or until April 2nd) I'm going to hold out hope that Brannen is going to be fired. I'd prefer a new coach who has 4 years to rebuild and who didn't get us into this mess over Brannen who got us into this mess and has at most 2 years to rebuild.
 
skyblade said:
The DDJ support article is fairly nuanced. He doesn't blame the players who left, says he understands why they did it and that the culture needs to change. That he was closer to the coaches than the other players and an intermediary between the two (the fact that we needed one is a sign of a problem in and of itself). But that he believes in the coaches and that they can and will change.

That's fair, but as a fan I don't think it matters if the coach can change. Brannen wasn't hired to learn how to coach, he wasn't hired to destroy the program to the point that it requires a fresh rebuild in year 3. He was hired to continue a tradition of greatness and instead ran us into the ground.

My view is this, it's going to take a miracle to have an NCAA tournament team next year no matter who is the coach. If you accept that we won't be an NCAA tournament team next year, the question becomes how much does waiting 11 days to fire Brannen hurt us, is it worth 500k? I'd say probably so. Is a rebuild going to be that much harder in 11 days? Probably not.

As I said, the worst thing we can do is wait to see what Brannen does next year. If he is on the hot seat with limited admin support, it makes recruiting even harder and means he has to lean more towards grad transfers over projects.

Either give Brannen 2 years or fire him now. And if they are going to give him 2 years, I'd think they'd come out with a statement of support in light of what has gone on.

Until that statement of support comes out (or until April 2nd) I'm going to hold out hope that Brannen is going to be fired. I'd prefer a new coach who has 4 years to rebuild and who didn't get us into this mess over Brannen who got us into this mess and has at most 2 years to rebuild.
Click to expand...

Ok. I would still doubt he is fired. However, the lack of a dancing bearcat tweet when spell committed could mean the administration is moving toward termination.
 
Bcatfollower said:
Ok. I would still doubt he is fired. However, the lack of a dancing bearcat tweet when spell committed could mean the administration is moving toward termination.
Click to expand...

It's hard to say, the silence from the administration means anything could be going on right now. It's likely the investigation or decision is still ongoing and that's why nothing has been said/done.

That lack of a dancing bearcats is weird, but could be Brannen trying to prevent a bunch of fans flooding the tweet with off-topic (to Spell's commitment) comments. But Brannen talked last year about how valuable he thinks the dancing bearcat is and how he didn't want to leave guys out (there was one he was questioned on, I forget who, did he put a dancing bearcat for Rob Banks?).

Trying to read tea leaves. The Saunders post of an door not closed is a strong reading that Brannen could still be fired. Doesn't mean he will be, but I can't believe that Saunder's would be considering coming back to play for Brannen.

The Justin Williams articles as good as say that nothing has been decided. In the first an anonymous player (DDJ probably) says he's committed to staying as long Brannen is still the coach. In the second, DDJ is directly quoted as saying. "I think it will come to a head soon"... "We have to see with Mr. Cunningham and the rest of the administration how everything pans out."
 
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skyblade said:
It's hard to say, the silence from the administration means anything could be going on right now. It's likely the investigation or decision is still ongoing and that's why nothing has been said/done.

That lack of a dancing bearcats is weird, but could be Brannen trying to prevent a bunch of fans flooding the tweet with off-topic (to Spell's commitment) comments. But Brannen talked last year about how valuable he thinks the dancing bearcat is and how he didn't want to leave guys out (there was one he was questioned on, I forget who, did he put a dancing bearcat for Rob Banks?).

Trying to read tea leaves. The Saunders post of an door not closed is a strong reading that Brannen could still be fired. Doesn't mean he will be, but I can't believe that Saunder's would be considering coming back to play for Brannen.

The Justin Williams articles as good as say that nothing has been decided. In the first an anonymous player (DDJ probably) says he's committed to staying as long Brannen is still the coach. In the second, DDJ is directly quoted as saying. "I think it will come to a head soon"... "We have to see with Mr. Cunningham and the rest of the administration how everything pans out."
Click to expand...

Is really reaching on some of this stuff. You’re trying hard. I expect a full apology if a player returns.
 
skyblade said:
I continue to hold out hope that Brannen will be fired. Until the administration comes out with a statement of support for Brannen, I think there is a chance. It's hard to believe they will remain completely silent.

Cincy Slangin podcast says that they payout drops by $500k if they fire him after April 1st. Not sure where that number comes from, but if true it could mean they are waiting.

Saunders post that on that "door isn't closed" is almost certainly hinting at the firing of Brannen. Saunders burned bridges with Brannen, he had multiple twitter DM's leak that say he is leaving because of Brannen. The anonymous player saying he loved everything about being here, except the coach is almost certainly Saunders. Brannen's wife liked posts trashing Saunders for leaving. If the door isn't closed, it's because someone on the inside is still talking to Saunders and telling him Brannen may still be fired.

We are in rebuild mode now. We aren't going to be good next year. So we need to either commit to 2/3 more years of Brannen or fire Brannen now. Waiting to see for 1 year isn't fair to him (he can't recruit for the future) and isn't fair to UC (delays the rebuild).

Maybe it will all be done behind the scenes. Pushing the narrative that the freshmen players were just soft (and please ignore that Sorolla, Rap and Moore left mid-season that Cumberland says he's a mid-major hack, that Harvey was a Sophomore and that the strength coach quit).

But I'd think that if he's going to stay the admin will come out and say he has at least 2 more years and mean it.
Click to expand...

Why are you obsessed with this Cincy slagin podcast lmao
 
Sky blade, at least be consistent man. Why do you invest everything in what one player says but then completely write off the ones who support the coach. You act like all the players hate him. That’s clearly not true at this point. I’m leaning more and more towards those guys just can’t handle the heat. I’m still no too happy with Brannen at this point, but your whole outlook is just funny. You keep trying to paint him as some dictator or something idk, some heartless man who mentally abuses and lies to his players, all because a few guys weren’t happy with their role. Mason left probably because his brother did, the rest who really cares, then you’ve got Eason Saunders and Harvey, I could have guess Eason and Harvey would transfer halfway through the season, that leaves one surprise and you’re putting all your eggs in that basket.
 
cincyguy13 said:
Is really reaching on some of this stuff. You’re trying hard. I expect a full apology if a player returns.
Click to expand...

Only if I can expect a full apology to the departing players if Brannen is fired. Also, I have only referred to one specific player.

Saunders had two PM's leaked where he said he is leaving because of the coach. Brannen's wife was liking tweets trashing Saunders for leaving. Saunders mom went after Brannen for walking off the court early. This isn't reaching, this is stuff that is easily visible if you've been paying close attention.

Hard to believe Saunders would want to come back after that, hard to believe Brannen would want him back.
 

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