Hoard On WVU Loss

[BearcatAlum1]

Yes , it's been going on since he has been here. That is why he is a failure as a coach. His players do not get the message. The team is soft. Never fear, his time is soon coming to an end. Two years too late. A good coach will get more out of this talent. You saw it on Saturday night by the other coach.

Please explain how Huggins got more out of UC's talent? Last time I checked, he coached for WVU.

Also, I suggest you return back to Morgantown to root for your namesake, Mr. "Lumberjack."

 

[ready2go]

The one thing I'll really be looking for is if any one player seems to step up more than the others these next few games. I think some of the hot/cold performances we've had, and not having a go to player, is what causes this team to go on long scoring droughts. IMO, this has been a problem for quite some time.

I also think the shot selection in the 2nd half put on full display, that we need a player that can get you a score in crunch time, but more importantly calm the troops. Someone that they know they can get the ball too. Instead, what you're seeing is our 4 headed monster all just heaving 3's when times get tough. It seems to me, they just settle for 3's rather than getting the ball in the right hands.

Dixon, Wright, Kilpatrick, Bishop can all have big games, but they can all put up some turds too. I really think the key to this final stretch is one of these guys stepping up. Personally, I think it has to be Wright too. And his shot falling Sat was encouraging.

And you say I keep repeating the same stuff....Youre just taking my ideas and re-using them

Bottom line, Mick Cronin needs to put his players in the best position to win. That is not playing a half court game.

People bitch on here about the big men not trying or not showing up. Its not going to happen. Except for Gates the other guys are lanky and athletic and have no business trying to post up bigger players. Its killing the offense. Guards have no one to drop the ball down low to and take the long 3. Its not the big mens fault they are only 180lbs, give or take

 

[TheLongHaul]

Yes I thought the offense would be better. Especially when I learned of the work Yancy was putting in. The lack of a consistent low post game has stifled the offense.

I don't think they are a very good team. I think they are a good team. I think they can beat the Georgetowns and Louisvilles of the world. They aren't going to beat Pitt or similiar teams unless everything is clicking. They haven't shown they can put it together against those teams. I think they are equal to the 5-10 teams with enough talent to make the tournament. Anything less is a failure to me.

I think I can agree with pretty much all of this.

I think they CAN beat the more talented teams. But with the way they have played of late, I don't think they WILL. Something absolutely has to happen with the offense for them to compete with these teams. Until Cronin makes some type of change I have zero faith that the offense, after 22 games, is just going to start clicking. I can't remember the last time I saw an offense this bad.

 

[Juliepitzer]

Please explain how Huggins got more out of UC's talent? Last time I checked, he coached for WVU.

Also, I suggest you return back to Morgantown to root for your namesake, Mr. "Lumberjack."

I, for one, welcome his opinion and hope he continues to post. While I disagree with some of his statement, I welcome his willingness to be open to debate. Huggins did get more out of his players during his time here though. He is correct in that statement. I think experience will eventually teach Cronin how to develop that sort of aura. And the term "lumberjack" is a northwestern term, and not found often in this part of the US. FYI.

 

[bearcat jeff]

Very good debate LongHaul. Handled very well. Hope everyone handles differing opinions in s like manner. Well played and we were able to disagree and yet we reached a point of consensus.

 

[Juliepitzer]

Things that need to happen for this team to win, besides the obvious (defense, rebounding):

1. Our "shooters" need to make their wide-open shots. Davis was 1-5 against WVU and missed 1-2 wide-open 3s. Killa was 3-9 and missed some wide-open shots too. For a team that struggles to score, we need our best shooters to hit when they have uncontested shots. 4-14 between those two is unacceptable.

2. We need players to take better shots. I do not like Bishop shooting 3s. He needs to slash, get to the rim and shoot FTs. They guy is on fire from the charity stripe this year, but he doesn't shoot enough of them! Stop taking the 3s. Instead, how about a few dribbles and a pull-up 12 footer? Maybe attack the rim and even get a few charges called...???

3. Ibrahima Thomas needs to do somethin OTHER THAN DEFENSIVE REBOUND. He is almost a liability on offense...but we need him to consistently chip in with 6-8 points, whether this is a simple finish around the rim or an offensive put back.

4. Yancy is Yancy. If he gives us 12-8, so be it. However, we need him to step up in back games, or in crunch time (i.e. answer a 8-0, stop the bleeding, etc.).

5. Cash. Do not commit fouls 70 feet away from our basket. Stay on the floor for 30 minutes a game. Be aggressive!!!! If you're open, shoot! We need you to score! We CANNOT WIN if you do not score! If you need 14-18 shots, take them!!!!

Agree with everything said. The problem is, quite a bit has to happen for this team to win consistantly against good teams. I said at the beginning of the season that this would not be the season we went to the dance, but saw it happening next year. Where we stand right now shows I could be wrong and I would love to eat crow.

 

[MDW79]

And you say I keep repeating the same stuff....Youre just taking my ideas and re-using them

This made me smile. Are you just joking, cuz I literally have no clue what you're talking about. Have you even been in this thread? (Seriously, I just checked out some of the last posts this morning. I really don't know.)

Sorry bud, not "taking your ideas and re-using them". What did you even say, that we need a go to player? At least we can agree on some stuff I guess.

 

[bearcat jeff]

I, for one, welcome his opinion and hope he continues to post. While I disagree with some of his statement, I welcome his willingness to be open to debate. Huggins did get more out of his players during his time here though. He is correct in that statement. I think experience will eventually teach Cronin how to develop that sort of aura. And the term "lumberjack" is a northwestern term, and not found often in this part of the US. FYI.

We all agree that Huggs is a heck of a coach. One of a handful to take 2 teams to a final 4. Everything else is a pointless debate because it's all opinion based. Let's move on from this.

 

[ralph1950]

I think I can agree with pretty much all of this.

I think they CAN beat the more talented teams. But with the way they have played of late, I don't think they WILL. Something absolutely has to happen with the offense for them to compete with these teams. Until Cronin makes some type of change I have zero faith that the offense, after 22 games, is just going to start clicking. I can't remember the last time I saw an offense this bad.

UC beat St. John at St. John, St. John is a more talented team, they have 10 seniors on their team. Georgetown, Notre Dame, and Duke all lost at St. John. St. John also beat WVU at WVU, St. John is #24 in RPI. UC also beat XU by 20.

 

[SlamJam]

UC beat St. John at St. John, St. John is a more talented team, they have 10 seniors on their team. Georgetown, Notre Dame, and Duke all lost at St. John. St. John also beat WVU at WVU, St. John is #24 in RPI. UC also beat XU by 20.

10 seniors who have done all but nothing in their career at St. Johns. Also under a new head coach-- They also lost to Fordham and St. Bonn back to back games. Simply put- I dont think St. Johns is a better team. I would like think a team that has been so bad the past few years they needed to get a new coach wouldnt be more talented then UC.

 

[TheLongHaul]

UC beat St. John at St. John, St. John is a more talented team, they have 10 seniors on their team. Georgetown, Notre Dame, and Duke all lost at St. John. St. John also beat WVU at WVU, St. John is #24 in RPI. UC also beat XU by 20.

How come you aren't questioning why UC doesn't have more talent?

 

[bearcat jeff]

This site is called BearcatTalk.com because it is a pro UC site. It's a place where like minded people can come and discuss their favorite sports program. That doesn't mean we all agree or see things thru the same eyes.

I understand peoples concerns. The past 5 seasons have been rough on all of us and the late season collapses add to that. Each time it appears this team is getting over the hump we are disappointed. The question some of you are asking is why is this one going to be different?

I've heard some say UC is 18-4 by using smoke and mirrors. Yes they had a soft OOC schedule made worse by Oklahoma, Xavier, and Dayton having problems or not performing to the standards expected. The fact is they won all those games and handily. Ask Tennessee if that is an easy thing to do. Ask any of the major conference schools that lost to a mid-major how easy it is to be undefeated after playing a third of your season.

The one thing that didn't happen during that time was a sharpening of their mental toughness. They never had the opportunity to face much adversity and have to fight thru it. That is a tough lesson to learn in the deepest conference in this country, against some of the best teams in the country. Learning to play thru things is a tremendous asset and neccessity in high level athletics.

UC has talent but has to play every play understanding their sum is greater than their parts. When this breaks down they struggle and it's ugly. They have to remember what put them in the position they're in. Ball movement, rebounding and team defense.

For my part I still believe in this team. All teams hit a streak where they struggle. The opportunity and set up are in front of them with key games at home to accomplish their goal. It's been a good time to have a week off, reflect and come together. Let's hope they'll be better for it. I believe they will.

 

[BearcatAlum1]

I, for one, welcome his opinion and hope he continues to post. While I disagree with some of his statement, I welcome his willingness to be open to debate. Huggins did get more out of his players during his time here though. He is correct in that statement. I think experience will eventually teach Cronin how to develop that sort of aura. And the term "lumberjack" is a northwestern term, and not found often in this part of the US. FYI.

Lumberjack. Mountaineer. Daniel Boone with a musket rifle and a racoon hat.

Whichever you pick and choose, all three of them go back to the sticks.

HA!

 

[BearcatAlum1]

You can call it whatever you'd like. The only decent OOC game I thought they might lose is is Xavier. I thought they would take at least one from Syracuse, Villanova, or ND. They lost all three. I thought they should sweep SJU and I thought they should have crushed WVU. They lost. So yes, not only are they underachieving in the results, they are underachieving in how I thought they would actually play. Their offense is pathetic, their defense is too slow to pressure anyone without fouling and their rebounding against good teams has been very suspect.

You standard of "decent" and that of the Committee are different.

Xavier was a top 25 win (lost last night to a bad UNC Charlotte team: ohhh the rigors of the A10!). Oklahoma just beat Baylor, improving to 13-9 (4-3), I think. Miami Oxford won, and Wright State is winning. Also, Dayton beat St.Bonnie last night.

Xavier is better than a decent win, even though I hate admitting that fact. Dayton and Wright State are also considered top 100 wins.

 

[bearcat jeff]

You standard of "decent" and that of the Committee are different.

Xavier was a top 25 win (lost last night to a bad UNC Charlotte team: ohhh the rigors of the A10!). Oklahoma just beat Baylor, improving to 13-9 (4-3), I think. Miami Oxford won, and Wright State is winning. Also, Dayton beat St.Bonnie last night.

Xavier is better than a decent win, even though I hate admitting that fact. Dayton and Wright State are also considered top 100 wins.

Last I checked a day or so ago they were 7-4 against top 100 teams. As Mick said earlier, you won't be able to judge a non-conf schedule till the seasons over. The Selection Committee does look at wins against the rpi 1-25, 26-50, etc.. It's important for UC to get wins against top 100 rpi teams.

 

[BearcatAlum1]

Oklahoma is now #115 in the RPI after beating Baylor.

You would think that number will continue to improve as Okla plays conference teams.

 

[psax889906]

Oklahoma is now #115 in the RPI after beating Baylor.

You would think that number will continue to improve as Okla plays conference teams.

They're tied for 3rd in the Big12 right now...

 

[bearcat jeff]

Pomeroy has UC 28th.

 

[Bearcat_NTS]

Pomeroy has UC 28th.

I like Pomeroy's rating system a lot better than the RPI because it factors in margin of victory and other in game related stats. I think its the best indicator of how good a team really is. Currently the Bearcats best two wins using KenPom numbers are St. Johns (53) and Xavier (56). I think those two numbers are much better indicators of how good those teams are as well. We can't have it both ways, using the KenPom numbers to judge how good UC is and the RPI to judge our opponents. Sure Xavier and St. Johns are decent wins. But those are the kind of wins you would want to fall back on in March, not have them as your main wins. Cincinnati probably should make the tournament if it started today as a bubble team (10-12 seed) but that is more of a testament to how weak the field is this year. What other 18-4 team from a major conference is unranked right now? or has been in the recent years? Who cares how good their record is right now when 10 of those wins are against terrible teams and 5 more are against mediocre teams?

 

[JasonS]

I like Pomeroy's rating system a lot better than the RPI because it factors in margin of victory and other in game related stats. I think its the best indicator of how good a team really is. Currently the Bearcats best two wins using KenPom numbers are St. Johns (53) and Xavier (56). I think those two numbers are much better indicators of how good those teams are as well. We can't have it both ways, using the KenPom numbers to judge how good UC is and the RPI to judge our opponents. Sure Xavier and St. Johns are decent wins. But those are the kind of wins you would want to fall back on in March, not have them as your main wins. Cincinnati probably should make the tournament if it started today as a bubble team (10-12 seed) but that is more of a testament to how weak the field is this year. What other 18-4 team from a major conference is unranked right now? or has been in the recent years? Who cares how good their record is right now when 10 of those wins are against terrible teams and 5 more are against mediocre teams?

I don't understand why everyone is so worried about where the Bearcats are ranked? Rankings don't matter. They are an opinion poll of a bunch of people that have never seen half of the teams play a single game. The only thing that matters this year is getting into the NCAA Tourney. You can't use KenPom numbers to analyze a team's NCAA Tourney worthiness because the committee doesn't use them. They do use your overall record, SOS, Conference Record, Bad Losses (based on RPI standing), Quality Wins (based on RPI standing), Conference RPI and your RPI. Based on this fact, you cannot discount the RPI and UC's ranking in it and how many Top 25 RPI wins they have.