Houston

[cincrulz11]

We have played at times like we can just out score people and win. How's that working???

We know it doesn't work. And all defense no offense doesn't work.


The reason everybody was excited this year was because we thought we'd bring our typical defense and the offense would be more efficient.


Instead the defense has been worse, and since conference play started the offense has been worse too.



So now we are stuck with a team where we don't know if the effort will be there, we don't know if the defense and rebounding will show up, and we have no idea what the offense might look like. That's why we are scared we are going to lose at home to freaking Houston.

 

[WAITE HOYT 2]

Who cares if you give up 70 points at home as long as you score 72?? I'd much rather watch us win a game 72-70 than 54-51.

Some people (including our head coach) think that if you hold a team under a certain number of points they automatically declare you the winner. The name of the game is score more points than the other team. Offense wins in basketball.

Brother you got to also guard to win. Many a coach will tell you there will be nights when you can't throw the ball in the ocean but you can always guard regardless of the pace of the game. We have not played well enough on both ends of the floor this year to beat good teams. Whether that is coaching or players is anyone's guess. Mine is its a combination of both.

 

[jacobkdoyle]

matters very little to me how many possessions we get. Still need to guard. Our defense has not been good for most of the year. Even against the cupcakes. If we speed things up offensively we still need to guard. I'm not confusing slow the offense down to limit possessions thus helping the defense. I'm saying guard every possession like its the last. We have played at times like we can just out score people and win. How's that working???

We've lost 0 times in the last 2 years when we hit 70 possessions.

We've lost 16 times in the last 2 years when we don't hit 70 possessions.

I posted the record when either team hits 70 points in a UC game too.

And also, we have 2 losses this year at a pace higher than 62 possessions. 3 losses this year at a pace of 62 or lower.

 

[WAITE HOYT 2]

We know it doesn't work. And all defense no offense doesn't work.


The reason everybody was excited this year was because we thought we'd bring our typical defense and the offense would be more efficient.


Instead the defense has been worse, and since conference play started the offense has been worse too.



So now we are stuck with a team where we don't know if the effort will be there, we don't know if the defense and rebounding will show up, and we have no idea what the offense might look like. That's why we are scared we are going to lose at home to freaking Houston.

couldn't agree more. we are a team with no identity. I liked the blue collar team. I understand some do not. Like many I thought if we guarded like past years and played better offensively we would have a very nice year. Hasn't worked out that way yet.

 

[WAITE HOYT 2]

We've lost 0 times in the last 2 years when we hit 70 possessions.

We've lost 16 times in the last 2 years when we don't hit 70 possessions.

I posted the record when either team hits 70 points in a UC game too.

And also, we have 2 losses this year at a pace higher than 62 possessions. 3 losses this year at a pace of 62 or lower.

Good info but without knowing who the opposition was I'm still a bit in the dark. Again I have no issue playing faster as long as we board and guard at the same level we did last year.

 

[TheShoeFits]

Nevermind, he's was a top 50 recruit. Mick doesn't like recruiting those.


(Thank god for Cumberland though)

False

 

[jacobkdoyle]

Good info but without knowing who the opposition was I'm still a bit in the dark. Again I have no issue playing faster as long as we board and guard at the same level we did last year.

I posted a page or 2 back some info on who the opposition was when either or neither team scores 70.

 

[UCBearcats]

No. Offense does not win in basketball. Defense and hard work does. Have you ever played? You out last and out tough a team you will win the game unless the other team is making crazy shots. Did you watch Kansas and West Virginia. You put a hand up in Kansas' face or hustle for rebounds you make Kansas look average. The way WVU looked last night is exactly how you need to play on defense and in the game. Full out tougher. Made Kansas look like a butch of you know whats. UC can do that too when they get it together. I don't care if scoring in the 70s can be more enjoyable there was nothing enjoyable about losing the ISU game. The win against Pitt a few years ago, I'll take that type of win in the 40's.

Cronin doesn't automatically think they will win if he hits a certain number but he likes his chances if they do because it's true, if they play hard defense then other team will not score so much.

Side note about the WVU game and I don't mean to make the Houston thread about WVU but litteraly they played exactly how I want UC to play and thought they would be playing all year. The announcer even said How Huggins tried to get away from that type of basketball he use to coach (just like Cronin coaches) and had two mediocre seasons. He's getting back to the toughness and defense.

Huggins is about as good at playing the style of basketball Mick wants to play as any coach in the history of the game. If you look at Huggins though the biggest knock on his coaching career is that his teams had a lot of let down in the NCAA tourneys. Look book at the teams that win championships in college basketball and most all of them are teams that score in the high 60's to mid 70's per game.

I did watch last night's game and it was a good game. Kind of made me depressed at how much better coached WVU is than us and how much better they execute the brand of hoops we want to play. I also watched the best college game of the year so far, Kansas vs Oklahoma. That game was tied 77-77 at the end of regulation and I don't think I heard anyone complaining about defense when it was over.

You have to be able to play good defense but allowing the other team to score 70 points doesn't mean you didn't play strong defense. The good teams have the ability to clamp down when the situation requires it but still have the ability to score when the situation requires it.

 

[UCBearcats]

Brother you got to also guard to win. Many a coach will tell you there will be nights when you can't throw the ball in the ocean but you can always guard regardless of the pace of the game. We have not played well enough on both ends of the floor this year to beat good teams. Whether that is coaching or players is anyone's guess. Mine is its a combination of both.

No one is saying you don't have to play defense. But to say that giving up 70 to a good team at home is somehow a bad thing is crazy.

Of course you have to be able to play at both ends of the court, I think most anyone would agree who isn't named Mick Cronin.

 

[cincrulz11]

We've lost 0 times in the last 2 years when we hit 70 possessions.

We've lost 16 times in the last 2 years when we don't hit 70 possessions.

I posted the record when either team hits 70 points in a UC game too.

And also, we have 2 losses this year at a pace higher than 62 possessions. 3 losses this year at a pace of 62 or lower.

These stats are a bit on the slanted side aren't they?



This team didn't hit 70 possessions in regulation a single time last year. So using the 16 loss stat is a bit of a joke. This team didn't hit 70 possessions once this year against a team ranked in the top 180.


We gave up 70+ points with possessions in the 60's 1 time last year, the loss to Temple. We've given up 70+ points 3 times this year with possessions in the 60's, Butler, ISU, and Temple.

 

[UCBearcats]

Ok I understand if KU schedule didn't play out the way they would like but that's life. WVU played tougher.

How many of the 70 point games were against quality opponents. We play tougher D and have the offense we are having which is in my mind better than we have these 10 years we lose maybe two games. It starts with defense.

And to go back to Houston we will win this game with our defense. The SMU loss sucked obviously, but I wasn't as mad as I was against Butler and Iowa State, because it was a hard fought game. we play that tough against those two teams we win those without a doubt.

It seems to me that you aren't grasping the fact that offense and defense are connected in the flow of the game. If we score more points it leads to more possessions for both teams. If we score 80 in a game that isn't a blowout the odds are much higher that the other team is going to score in the 70's.

Just because you win a game 80-70 doesn't mean you played poor defense. You could win 80-78 and shut a team down on their final possession of the game and you've played good enough defense to win.

 

[cincrulz11]

It seems to me that you aren't grasping the fact that offense and defense are connected in the flow of the game. If we score more points it leads to more possessions for both teams.

.

I don't think this is exactly correct. Scoring more points doesn't lead to more possessions. You can play slow as heck, be extremely efficient, and score a decent amount of points. That doesn't mean there will be more possessions.


An example this year would be the Villanova/Virginia game. 86-75 final. That game had 1 less possession than our game vs USF.

 

[GarradJ21]

matters very little to me how many possessions we get. Still need to guard. Our defense has not been good for most of the year. Even against the cupcakes. If we speed things up offensively we still need to guard. I'm not confusing slow the offense down to limit possessions thus helping the defense. I'm saying guard every possession like its the last. We have played at times like we can just out score people and win. How's that working???

Completely agree. All in all in comes down to playing tough and good defense and you should win. If you don't then that's how it goes sometimes.

 

[jacobkdoyle]

These stats are a bit on the slanted side aren't they?



This team didn't hit 70 possessions in regulation a single time last year. So using the 16 loss stat is a bit of a joke. This team didn't hit 70 possessions once this year against a team ranked in the top 180.


We gave up 70+ points with possessions in the 60's 1 time last year, the loss to Temple. We've given up 70+ points 3 times this year with possessions in the 60's, Butler, ISU, and Temple.

Stats are stats. You can make them say whatever you want. Point is, most of them say that if we don't score, we could lose to just about any team in D1. And we're prone to not scoring. And it just do happens to be in low possession games. Crazy coincidence.

 

[WAITE HOYT 2]

I posted a page or 2 back some info on who the opposition was when either or neither team scores 70.

Thanks jake. Must have missed that. headed to game tonight. Stopping at Mio's for some a refreshment if your in area.

 

[jacobkdoyle]

Line up to -10. Wow.

 

[GarradJ21]

It seems to me that you aren't grasping the fact that offense and defense are connected in the flow of the game. If we score more points it leads to more possessions for both teams. If we score 80 in a game that isn't a blowout the odds are much higher that the other team is going to score in the 70's.

Just because you win a game 80-70 doesn't mean you played poor defense. You could win 80-78 and shut a team down on their final possession of the game and you've played good enough defense to win.

No I completely agree and I do understand basketball. But people said they would much rather win a game 72-70 and my answer to that it doesn't matter how pretty it looks. Just win and it starts on the defense and toughness part. Not much you can say or show in stats to make me switch my opinion. The games we lost and the scoring was high was because of lack of defense and toughness. If the d was there and the score was still high I wouldn't mind. I go back to the Pittsburgh I mentioned in the 40s I said I was happy because we won and I'll take a win any day then losing, and we won from the defensive effort.

 

[jacobkdoyle]

Thanks jake. Must have missed that. headed to game tonight. Stopping at Mio's for some a refreshment if your in area.

I'm in KC now. Haven't been back for any games this year. And last year when I was in town they were in the tournament vs MTSU and Ole Miss . It was much easier to get down there when I was in Chicago. Last game I was at was the Louisville loss in the last couple seconds when SK got his 2,000 points.

 

[WAITE HOYT 2]

No one is saying you don't have to play defense. But to say that giving up 70 to a good team at home is somehow a bad thing is crazy.

Of course you have to be able to play at both ends of the court, I think most anyone would agree who isn't named Mick Cronin.

have no issue giving up points if we make them earn them. I'm throwing stats out the window. We have not guarded well. I guess I'm in the camp of if we win I'm happy. Style is not as important to me as it is to others. Would I like to see Laker show time, absolutely but I can live with a slower pace win.

 

[WAITE HOYT 2]

I'm in KC now. Haven't been back for any games this year. And last year when I was in town they were in the tournament vs MTSU and Ole Miss . It was much easier to get down there when I was in Chicago. Last game I was at was the Louisville loss in the last couple seconds when SK got his 2,000 points.

well have a good steak dinner and hopefully the cats play won't give you indigestion.