Kiel or Moore?

[waterhead]

Gunner has shown zero ability to play all 4 quarters consistently. Last year it was more excusable bc he hadn't played in 2 years, but this year is more of the same. I'd be reluctant to go back to him bc it is just asking for instability at the position. It helps knowing that Moore is more than capable of putting up as a replacement. But all things being about equal, I'd rather go with the guy without the injury concerns.

I get your point Jacob and it is a good one but you can look at this a couple of ways. Gunner has a lot of intangible qualities to go with his above average QB play. Yes he can cut down on mistakes and taking hits for sure...coaches need to help teach him that. But he seems like the heart and soul of the team when he is out there and he is one of our biggest chearleaders on the field...and after watching him in the press box last game....off the field too. He's a pretty good leader IMO. He has fought through a lot of injuries and played through them as well which is more than I can say for a lot of kids. Playing through injury goes a long way with teammates. I feel like he deserves to get back on the field and lead...if he's unproductive or makes more mistakes we can put Moore in to spell him and see how he plays.

In no way shape or form do I feel he should lose his spot at this point in time. The coaches need to coach him and cut his mistakes and demand that he isn't wreckless with taking hits, not throwing into double coverage so often, and not staring down receivers. Now that we have seen Moore play it is a perfect teaching moment...because we have a capable backup. Make too many mistakes and you're coming out. All the negative things he is doing are coachable but his intangibles like heart, soul, grit, and leadership are not.

 

[Nayers]

I get your point Jacob and it is a good one but you can look at this a couple of ways. Gunner has a lot of intangible qualities to go with his above average QB play. Yes he can cut down on mistakes and taking hits for sure...coaches need to help teach him that. But he seems like the heart and soul of the team when he is out there and he is one of our biggest chearleaders on the field...and after watching him in the press box last game....off the field too. He's a pretty good leader IMO. He has fought through a lot of injuries and played through them as well which is more than I can say for a lot of kids. Playing through injury goes a long way with teammates. I feel like he deserves to get back on the field and lead...if he's unproductive or makes more mistakes we can put Moore in to spell him and see how he plays.

In no way shape or form do I feel he should lose his spot at this point in time. The coaches need to coach him and cut his mistakes and demand that he isn't wreckless with taking hits, not throwing into double coverage so often, and not staring down receivers. Now that we have seen Moore play it is a perfect teaching moment...because we have a capable backup. Make too many mistakes and you're coming out. All the negative things he is doing are coachable but his intangibles like heart, soul, grit, and leadership are not.

I get what you're trying to say but if he is the center of the team then why has the offense been head and shoulders better with him out? Has Moore played with no grit or determination? I guess I don't get all the praise for intangibles and such. He really hasn't done anything THAT special while he's been here.

 

[waterhead]

I get what you're trying to say but if he is the center of the team then why has the offense been head and shoulders better with him out? Has Moore played with no grit or determination? I guess I don't get all the praise for intangibles and such. He really hasn't done anything THAT special while he's been here.

I have nothing against Moore and I think he has done a great job filling in. I think it's a little too early (2 games) to be able to anoint him just yet...but he certainly has made a great case for himself so far.

However, I am not sure what you mean that the offense is head and shoulders better? Maybe a little but like I said it's two games. Under Keil we have been in the top 30 in scoring offense in the nation. Not too shabby.

Yes he makes mistakes and he needs to cut down on those for sure but I don't think he's really done anything so bad as to lose his job over injury nor do I think Moore has been head and shoulders above Keil. I think you can make the case that Moore (through 2 games) has played a little better...but you don't yank your star players due to injury because someone filled in and played a little better over 2 games. I say let the coaches try to fix Keil's in game mistakes/decisions and if that doesn't work...let Moore come in again.

 

[waterhead]

I get what you're trying to say but if he is the center of the team then why has the offense been head and shoulders better with him out? Has Moore played with no grit or determination? I guess I don't get all the praise for intangibles and such. He really hasn't done anything THAT special while he's been here.

Here's what I would do at this point. Start Keil. Sit him down and watch tape and show him how often he throws into double coverage, takes unnecessary hits, and throws silly picks. Tell him he must cut down on those or Moore is going to play. Apparently the coaches have NOT done that or Keil would/could have been benched for it already.

All of Keil's problems are coachable for the most part IMO. He has plenty of ability and great intangibles IMO.

 

[M64W]

Aren't we all glad?

I am thrilled that we have 2 QBs that could start. Credit to Coach T. Unless a team is very lucky, most need more then one QB. That's a sign of good recruiting. Remember the QB gets more credit then they deserve, and more crap when they get beat. Comes with the territory.

 

[jacobkdoyle]

Here's what I would do at this point. Start Keil. Sit him down and watch tape and show him how often he throws into double coverage, takes unnecessary hits, and throws silly picks. Tell him he must cut down on those or Moore is going to play. Apparently the coaches have NOT done that or Keil would/could have been benched for it already.

All of Keil's problems are coachable for the most part IMO. He has plenty of ability and great intangibles IMO.

You don't think the coaches have ever done this?

 

[waterhead]

You don't think the coaches have ever done this?

I don't recall seeing him benched for it. Cronin or Huggins would have pulled his ass in a second and put someone else in. That tells me his mistakes aren't weighted as much as his production. Perhaps they didn't think they had the luxury...but they do now

 

[jacobkdoyle]

I don't recall seeing him benched for it. Cronin or Huggins would have pulled his ass in a second and put someone else in. That tells me his mistakes aren't weighted as much as his production. Perhaps they didn't think they had the luxury...but they do now

Deciding to pull a QB is a lot different than pulling a basketball player.

 

[waterhead]

Deciding to pull a QB is a lot different than pulling a basketball player.

He's been the QB for a full season plus 3 games this year. They have had their chances. He was playing injured for a half of the year last year.

It's not that hard to pull a QB for not doing what you tell them unless you feel like they are otherwise doing a good job and/or you don't have a viable alternative. Perhaps Moore's performance will give them some balls

 

[Red_N_Black_Attack]

A different kind of platoon

Don't shoot me down without reading the entire platoon suggestion, please.

What is Moore starts and plays on 1st and 2nd downs. If it's 3rd and 5 or less, Moore stays in. If it's an obvious passing down, the run Kiel in with an extra receiver or two.

This let's Moore know he has the full offense at his disposal and Kiel knows he has to deliver on throws before he can earn the keys back. Other positions come in and out on situational downs, why not the QB? It let's UC take advantage of both weapons, just like the three headed running game.

 

[Bearcat_NTS]

Don't shoot me down without reading the entire platoon suggestion, please.

What is Moore starts and plays on 1st and 2nd downs. If it's 3rd and 5 or less, Moore stays in. If it's an obvious passing down, the run Kiel in with an extra receiver or two.

This let's Moore know he has the full offense at his disposal and Kiel knows he has to deliver on throws before he can earn the keys back. Other positions come in and out on situational downs, why not the QB? It let's UC take advantage of both weapons, just like the three headed running game.

 

[jacobkdoyle]

Constantly rotating at the QB spot is a recipe for disaster imo. I want the guy we pick for BYU to be able to start every game and stay healthy for the rest of the year.

 

[dbieon12]

Today:
Moore >= Kiel

Tomorrow:
Moore > Kiel

-------------------

This is a no-brainer decision. Moore is the best QB for this team now and in the future. Even if we lose tomorrow, it is more valuable experience for Moore to have than Kiel to have.

 

[M64W]

Kiel/Moore

One day, people are worried that Kiel may turn pro. The next day they want to throw him in the trash pile. What the hell is wrong with you people?

 

[UCBearcats]

One day, people are worried that Kiel may turn pro. The next day they want to throw him in the trash pile. What the hell is wrong with you people?

What do you mean you people?

 

[M64W]

If the shoe fits...

What I meant by "you people" was for the ones who praise Kiel and then turn on him in a NY minute.

 

[jacobkdoyle]

What I meant by "you people" was for the ones who praise Kiel and then turn on him in a NY minute.

I think you're being a little extreme. I haven't seen anyone "turning on Kiel" or "throwing him in a trash pile". He just hasn't stayed healthy, and has made some very iffy throws. And I think the debate has more to do with now seeing what Moore is capable of.

 

[jacobkdoyle]

2 different podcasts I listen to weighed in on this...

Championship Drive was talking about the bad QBs at Georgia, Alabama, and Auburn. They couldn't believe that Moore got out of the state of Alabama and they said they think he could start over any of the guys at those schools right now.

The other was Pregame.com First Preview. They talk all things betting, and they were previewing the UC/BYU game tonight. One of the guys said he doesn't see any way how Kiel gets his job back. They went on to say that Tuberville was right when he was talking about Moore's talent and that he just looks great.

Pretty high praise. Will be interesting to see what happens.

 

[UCBearcats]

I think you're being a little extreme. I haven't seen anyone "turning on Kiel" or "throwing him in a trash pile". He just hasn't stayed healthy, and has made some very iffy throws. And I think the debate has more to do with now seeing what Moore is capable of.

I agree, I don't think I've seen anyone turn on him. Someone mentioned this earlier but I think you have to go to Kiel because of his potential and his status. He did tie the record for TD's last season and although he's struggled with heath issues and been a little suspect to start this season he still has NFL potential. I think you need to continue to give him a chance to step up and play well again, he shouldn't lose his job due to an injury.

Moore is a redshirt freshman, he'll be okay sitting if Kiel does step up and keep the job. If Kiel continues to struggle or gets hurt again you know what you've got behind him. It's a great spot for Tubs and the team to be in.

I fully expect Kiel to start and we all know he's very capable of playing a high level going forward.

 

[jacobkdoyle]

No matter who it is, I'm really hoping we can get this win tonight. Would be 2 big ones in a row and would definitely help negate the early losses (obviously not in a conference play sense but just for our momentum in general).