Koch: Move UC basketball to the Banks

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JackBauer151

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Interesting take. I tend to agree with him :eek:

Something’s missing on The Banks. Every time I attend a Reds game now I look forward to soaking in the atmosphere at the Banks around Great American Ball Park, especially because I remember when the only thing you saw on the way to the ballpark was a giant hole where Riverfront Stadium used to be and where The Banks was supposed to be but after awhile seemed as if it never would.

I have a brother who grew up here before moving to Denver about six years ago. He comes home every Christmas but has not been to a Reds game or to the riverfront since he moved away. If he came now, he would think he was in a different city.

But there’s still one thing missing down there – and no, it’s not the merry-go-round that they’re going to put in Smale Park. What’s missing to make the riverfront – and downtown – complete is a state-of-the-art arena. U.S. Bank Arena simply has too many limitations, starting with the fact that it’s no longer considered suitable for an NCAA Tournament game. That’s a disgrace in a city where college basketball is such a big deal.

While the city suffers from this void on its now-thriving riverfront, UC plays on its campus in outdated Fifth Third Arena. The school is in the process of raising money to renovate Nippert Stadium. When that’s finished, officials will presumably turn their full attention to Fifth Third, but athletic director Whit Babcock told The Enquirer’s Cliff Peale just last week that he doesn’t have the answers for that project yet.

Moving UC’s home games downtown was tried in the 70s and 80s and didn’t work. But it’s a different time now. The riverfront has become an attraction and having UC basketball there would only add to the atmosphere during the winter. Ever been to the Yum! Center in downtown Louisville to watch the Cardinals play?

To get UC to play downtown, the city/county would probably have to partner with UC and the Nederlander Group, which owns U.S. Bank Arena, to finance a complete overhaul of the building, making it a true home court for the Bearcats, complete with priority over game dates (sorry, Cyclones). The Bearcats would get a new home court with better seating for its fans who can enjoy the Banks before and after the game. The city would fill the void on the river and Nederlander would get a new tenant.

I remember when UC moved into The Shoe in 1989 how excited everyone was because the games were back on campus where they belonged. But playing downtown can work for UC if it’s done right.

Time is of the essence. I’m told preliminary discussions have already taken place, but a decision will have to be made soon so that UC and Babcock know whether they should proceed with a fundraising plan to renovate or replace Fifth Third Arena or whether they should cast their lot downtown.

http://cincinnati.com/blogs/daugherty/2013/06/20/the-morning-line-620-move-uc-basketball-downtown/
 
This article can be summed up short and sweet when he said, "If its done right, it could work." I fully support this move if it would be done right, meaning the arena gets a complete face lift and updates. If that doesn't happen, forget about it.
 
I am not a fan of this move. Architectually speaking I'm not sure any facelift of US Bank arena will classify it as state-of-the-art. It would still be a hockey arena so the floor would have to stay the same size, which pushes seats away from the court. It is possible to use temporary seating in the ends to get seats closer I suppose. The building itself isn't going to get any bigger. To be state-of the art, the concourses would have to be completely revamped and expanded which would take away from seating area. While I do agree general fan interest could/probably would be higher if games were downtown with the Banks being a nice tie-in for entertainment, I feel there are several factors worth mentioning against the move. One, I think it would be hard to get students to come down for your average game. And students are the ones that bring energy to the game. Cincinnati (as a city) has very passive fans. Two, half of your games are weeknight games which does nothing to change the fact that people will still have work and school the next morning and getting seated and eating would be tough at any of those restaraunts/bars for the average person getting off work and trying to make it to a game by 7 pm. Three taking games off campus can alienate not only your student fanbase, but your alumni fanbase which is your biggest financial support.

Honestly I would need to see a plan of the arena before I would make a final judgement. I can see the advantage of the downtown entertainment district tying in with creating an increased fanbase, albeit a bandwagon fanbase. I think long-term it would still be best to build an arena on-campus and allowing that arena to be used for concerts/events and the university making money off of that.
 
Terrible idea, basketball should remain on campus for the same reasons football remains on campus. Why spend $70 million remodeling Nippert when you have an excellent $650 million NFL Stadium 3 miles from campus?

What is needed is an attitude adjustment. 5/3rd Arena is a mere 23 years old and in excellent condition. It can be as loud as any arena in the country and provide a great home court advantage. The game can be seen from any seat.
 
Terrible idea, basketball should remain on campus for the same reasons football remains on campus. Why spend $70 million remodeling Nippert when you have an excellent $650 million NFL Stadium 3 miles from campus?

What is needed is an attitude adjustment. 5/3rd Arena is a mere 23 years old and in excellent condition. It can be as loud as any arena in the country and provide a great home court advantage. The game can be seen from any seat.

I can agree to this in theory. But reality is fans don't want to come down and sit in the upper deck. That presents a serious problem. Winning solves alot as people will endure a bad arena to watch a really good team. For us to really see a boost in attendance by winning alone we would need to be a top ten if not a top five team. And that is possible as it has happened before. But again, reality is fans are going to pick and choose games to come to and that brings overall attendance down. Fans aren't buying season tickets, conversely I don't see a boost in season attendance numbers by a move to a downtown arena no matter how pretty they make US Bank look. The question is will they make more money sharing revenue and going downtown or by keeping the status quo? My guess is no. Lets not kid ourselves, revenue will be the only deciding factor.
 
I'm just gonna up this out there-I'm pretty sure the upper levels of 5/3 arena in the winter are hotter than the pits of hell. It's 22 degrees out and I have to show up in a t-shirt and shorts to be comfortable up there. The condition of the building itself is not the problem, the problem is the design-whoever came up with the layout must have been high and drunk when they drew up the plans. There are lots of horrible seats, which is a major problem. They need to gut it and change the layout if they want it to work at 5/3.......
 
I can agree to this in theory. But reality is fans don't want to come down and sit in the upper deck. That presents a serious problem. Winning solves alot as people will endure a bad arena to watch a really good team. For us to really see a boost in attendance by winning alone we would need to be a top ten if not a top five team. And that is possible as it has happened before. But again, reality is fans are going to pick and choose games to come to and that brings overall attendance down. Fans aren't buying season tickets, conversely I don't see a boost in season attendance numbers by a move to a downtown arena no matter how pretty they make US Bank look. The question is will they make more money sharing revenue and going downtown or by keeping the status quo? My guess is no. Lets not kid ourselves, revenue will be the only deciding factor.

A new arena will have an upper deck, if you have 15,000 seats in a new arena many of them are going to be high up, so nothing is solved. It is not possible to build an arena where everyone sits in the front row of the lower level. US Bank Arena is located east of GABP and not easy to get to, it is a long walk from the Banks and other downtown parking, especially on a cold windy winter night. Playing at US Bank would be another excuse for fans staying home and watching on TV.
 
I'm just gonna up this out there-I'm pretty sure the upper levels of 5/3 arena in the winter are hotter than the pits of hell. It's 22 degrees out and I have to show up in a t-shirt and shorts to be comfortable up there. The condition of the building itself is not the problem, the problem is the design-whoever came up with the layout must have been high and drunk when they drew up the plans. There are lots of horrible seats, which is a major problem. They need to gut it and change the layout if they want it to work at 5/3.......

The State of Ohio contributed many dollars toward the cost of Shoemaker (as it was known at the time), it had to be sold to the State as a multi purpose building, not as a true arena.

There are no bad seats in 5/3rd Arena, you can see the court from every seat in the place, there are no obstructed views.
 
The State of Ohio contributed many dollars toward the cost of Shoemaker (as it was known at the time), it had to be sold to the State as a multi purpose building, not as a true arena.

There are no bad seats in 5/3rd Arena, you can see the court from every seat in the place, there are no obstructed views.

Now I know why the design is so bad-the government was involved. Anytime the government gets involved, you know it will be poorly designed and planned......
 
Lets test your theory of no bad seats, Ralphy boy. Give me your tickets with the red sweater club and I will give you my last row seats, then we will see if there are really bad seats.....
 
There are no bad seats in 5/3rd Arena, you can see the court from every seat in the place, there are no obstructed views.

That is laughable. The Shoe is an absolute dump as a basketball arena and the bleachers are an absolute nightmare. Uncomfortable. Hot. Bad sightlines. Just awful. Also its not a far walk from the banks its 5 minutes tops. If they can make it a state of the art arena and not just put lipstick on a pig then I am in full support of it moving downtown. Parking would be better, would attract a larger fan base, would be helpful to recruiting, and just a better atmosphere with all that would surround the new arena. The student concern, I think, is a valid one. It still would be very close to campus and the university Im assuming would provide transportation. 5\3 as it stands now is simply not a viable option moving forward if you want to continue to grow the program.
 
That is laughable. The Shoe is an absolute dump as a basketball arena and the bleachers are an absolute nightmare. Uncomfortable. Hot. Bad sightlines. Just awful. Also its not a far walk from the banks its 5 minutes tops. If they can make it a state of the art arena and not just put lipstick on a pig then I am in full support of it moving downtown. Parking would be better, would attract a larger fan base, would be helpful to recruiting, and just a better atmosphere with all that would surround the new arena. The student concern, I think, is a valid one. It still would be very close to campus and the university Im assuming would provide transportation. 5\3 as it stands now is simply not a viable option moving forward if you want to continue to grow the program.

I don't think it's laughable at all to be honest. The Shoe is still not a bad place to watch a game when it's actually packed. The lighting and audio suck but as far as bathrooms, concessions and overall comfort level it's not a bad arena.

If we can dump money into the overhaul of US Bank, which is a far crappier arena in it's current state than the Shoe is, then why can't we just dump that money into an upgrade of the Shoe? I doubt US Bank area's owner would pay to upgrade the place without a good deal of financial assistance from UC, and I'm sure we could fund a lot of the upgrade cost at the Shoe thru naming rights and corporate donations.

I have no problem with going downtown, I just don't get why we couldn't do the same thing in Clifton.
 
UC would not pay anything out of pocket upfront. That would all be on the Nerlander group that owns US Bank. The arena would be used for many other things than UC basketball. UC would take the hit on the revenue garnered from the new arena during UC events.
 
Also if we could get corporate sponsorships to step up and and help renovate the shoe I'd be in for that as well. My whole point is that it cant remain the status quo. With the football renovation coming first it could be a very very long time before anywhere near the amount of money needed to renovate 5\3 would be raised. If there is a state of art option available downtown it is something that has to be considered.
 
I don't think it's laughable at all to be honest. The Shoe is still not a bad place to watch a game when it's actually packed. The lighting and audio suck but as far as bathrooms, concessions and overall comfort level it's not a bad arena.

If we can dump money into the overhaul of US Bank, which is a far crappier arena in it's current state than the Shoe is, then why can't we just dump that money into an upgrade of the Shoe? I doubt US Bank area's owner would pay to upgrade the place without a good deal of financial assistance from UC, and I'm sure we could fund a lot of the upgrade cost at the Shoe thru naming rights and corporate donations.

I have no problem with going downtown, I just don't get why we couldn't do the same thing in Clifton.

We wouldn't have to give US Bank much. We have leverage-they don't wanna pay for it themselves, fine, we stay at 5/3. They pay for most of it and we give a little, then we're talking. UC doesn't have to do this and US Bank has other incentives-1) maybe some NCAA tournament games and 2) bigger concerts and events might want to book it. US Bank is definitely not crappier than 5/3- there are far fewer bad seats and the layout is 100x better. The overall facilities (concessions, bathrooms, etc.) probably isn't as good as 5/3, but those are easy fixes compared to the complete gutting and change of layout 5/3 would need.
 
That is laughable. The Shoe is an absolute dump as a basketball arena and the bleachers are an absolute nightmare. Uncomfortable. Hot. Bad sightlines. Just awful. Also its not a far walk from the banks its 5 minutes tops. If they can make it a state of the art arena and not just put lipstick on a pig then I am in full support of it moving downtown. Parking would be better, would attract a larger fan base, would be helpful to recruiting, and just a better atmosphere with all that would surround the new arena. The student concern, I think, is a valid one. It still would be very close to campus and the university Im assuming would provide transportation. 5\3 as it stands now is simply not a viable option moving forward if you want to continue to grow the program.

Parking will be a concern for me, I don't like paying for the garages and I have a secret spot on the street by 5/3 where I can park for free and it is close. Downtown, street rates will be ridiculous once they finish off their horrible idea of privatizing parking. Maybe I can take the streetcar to the game (cough, cough)...........
 
I don't think it's laughable at all to be honest. The Shoe is still not a bad place to watch a game when it's actually packed. The lighting and audio suck but as far as bathrooms, concessions and overall comfort level it's not a bad arena.

If we can dump money into the overhaul of US Bank, which is a far crappier arena in it's current state than the Shoe is, then why can't we just dump that money into an upgrade of the Shoe? I doubt US Bank area's owner would pay to upgrade the place without a good deal of financial assistance from UC, and I'm sure we could fund a lot of the upgrade cost at the Shoe thru naming rights and corporate donations.

I have no problem with going downtown, I just don't get why we couldn't do the same thing in Clifton.
The Shoe is a terrible place to watch a game. It is a very bad arena. I go and I hate it. If they want to renovate it i'm fine with that, if they go to 5.3rd I'm fine as well. The banks is really turning into a very nice place to have a good time. Go to many reds games and the crowds are very nice and the atmosphere is great. The young kids are really starting to go the park and I have to believe the upgraded eating and drinking establishments are the reason. Lots of fun down on the river. Moving the cats to 5/3rd gets my vote unless they build a new arena on campus.
 
A new arena will have an upper deck, if you have 15,000 seats in a new arena many of them are going to be high up, so nothing is solved. It is not possible to build an arena where everyone sits in the front row of the lower level. US Bank Arena is located east of GABP and not easy to get to, it is a long walk from the Banks and other downtown parking, especially on a cold windy winter night. Playing at US Bank would be another excuse for fans staying home and watching on TV.

I think the issue isn't that seats are in an upper deck, but that the seats in our upper deck are horrible. I'll be honest, I'm as big a fan as there is and love going to games and don't need a bunch of fluff to entice me to go to games and I hate sitting in those bench seats. Enough so that I didn't buy season tickets until I could get chairback seats. I would go to plenty of games a year, but did everything in my power to not get seats in those bleacher seats up there. I'm curious as to if you've actually ever sat up there? I'm guessing not since you're a long-time season holder. The seats are seriously bad. Bad enough that fans actually prefer the upper deck seating at US Bank arena which in my opinion is a dump.

As far as sightlines are concerned and parking I really don't get that argument. I've never had an issue with parking down there. And you are high up in those seats but you can watch the game. I was at UD arena this year and their upperdeck is farther back and higher and people love that arena.
 
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