What's it going to take?

[jacobkdoyle]

After they graduate?

No. The approach Mick is taking might not be best for a couple current older guys since they are so used to complete coach control. But it encourages the guys who are going to be around to start taking more ownership of our success. And the younger they are when that starts, the better. I think having more freedom helps with confidence and overall in-game player development in the long run. The last step to that is to not play favorites and giving every player a chance. Drives me nuts how terrified Mick is to let certain guys play their game. But he has been singing a different tune much of this year, so that's a start.

 

[indydoug]

This team is 3 possessions away from being talked ab as a phenomenal season. Looking at a 2 to 3 seed.

Haven't finished... if we learn to, look out.

There has been a common denominator in those 3 close losses to top 15 teams----the inexplicable force-feed of trying to have Troy Caupain be the late game finisher because he did so vs. Purdue last year. He failed in all 3 at end of games whether throwing the ball away, having his shot blocked , making a bad decision or throwing up a terrible shot. Why not do what they did until the last 3 minutes of SMU game. Give it to Clark at free throw line and let him work or kick out to Cobb.

 

[WAITE HOYT 2]

There has been a common denominator in those 3 close losses to top 15 teams----the inexplicable force-feed of trying to have Troy Caupain be the late game finisher because he did so vs. Purdue last year. He failed in all 3 at end of games whether throwing the ball away, having his shot blocked , making a bad decision or throwing up a terrible shot. Why not do what they did until the last 3 minutes of SMU game. Give it to Clark at free throw line and let him work or kick out to Cobb.

Doug we threw the ball inbounds wit 8 seconds on the clock. I'll ask you if you were Larry Brown what would you have told your team? I know what I would say. Cobb is not getting a open look and if TC wants to drive the lane we will weak side help. Now the problem with going to Clark is the time. He method of scoring is to back his man down and post him turn and shoot. Is there time for that? Let him gain position,throw him the ball and let him go to work. I do not know. Your quick twitch scorers have to be involved.Ghe problem we had was TC didn't draw the defense and made a bad decision. It happens.

 

[jacobkdoyle]

There has been a common denominator in those 3 close losses to top 15 teams----the inexplicable force-feed of trying to have Troy Caupain be the late game finisher because he did so vs. Purdue last year. He failed in all 3 at end of games whether throwing the ball away, having his shot blocked , making a bad decision or throwing up a terrible shot. Why not do what they did until the last 3 minutes of SMU game. Give it to Clark at free throw line and let him work or kick out to Cobb.

I agree. You even see it at the end of the half. It's like Caupain is the only one allowed to shoot or make a play. Everyone else has to stand around while we put everything on 1 guy. Worked with SK. Isn't working now. I also agree when you say get the ball to Clark and run things through him more. I think he's the best player on the team, and he's a very good passer too. It doesn't have to be all on 1 player. No reason to put that kind of pressure on a single player imo. I understand the importance of having a "closer" down the stretch, but you can't force it.

 

[jacobkdoyle]

Doug we threw the ball inbounds wit 8 seconds on the clock. I'll ask you if you were Larry Brown what would you have told your team? I know what I would say. Cobb is not getting a open look and if TC wants to drive the lane we will weak side help. Now the problem with going to Clark is the time. He method of scoring is to back his man down and post him turn and shoot. Is there time for that? Let him gain position,throw him the ball and let him go to work. I do not know. Your quick twitch scorers have to be involved.Ghe problem we had was TC didn't draw the defense and made a bad decision. It happens.

I think he was speaking to a general philosophy down the stretch, not just a specific 8 second situation.

 

[cincrulz11]

I agree. You even see it at the end of the half. It's like Caupain is the only one allowed to shoot or make a play. Everyone else has to stand around while we put everything on 1 guy. Worked with SK. Isn't working now. I also agree when you say get the ball to Clark and run things through him more.

They did try to go through Gary twice with under 3 minutes left. Do people not remember that? Mick drew the plays up, Gary got the ball. The first time Gary tried to work down and got stopped so he passed it out to Cobb and then Cobb gave it to Caupain with 7 seconds left on the clock 30 feet from the basket.


2nd time they got it down to Gary again and this time he fumbled it held it for a bit trying to work and then passed it to Caupain with 1 second on the clock and he threw up a 3.


2 shots from Caupain, neither one were drawn up for him and neither play was supposed to go through him. He got it at the end of the clock both times and had to throw stuff up a tough shot.


That's the reality of what happened. People can remember it however they want.

 

[waterhead]

They did try to go through Gary twice with under 3 minutes left. Do people not remember that? Mick drew the plays up, Gary got the ball. The first time Gary tried to work down and got stopped so he passed it out to Cobb and then Cobb gave it to Caupain with 7 seconds left on the clock 30 feet from the basket.


2nd time they got it down to Gary again and this time he fumbled it held it for a bit trying to work and then passed it to Caupain with 1 second on the clock and he threw up a 3.


2 shots from Caupain, neither one were drawn up for him and neither play was supposed to go through him. He got it at the end of the clock both times and had to throw stuff up a tough shot.


That's the reality of what happened. People can remember it however they want.

Yes...part of the problem is Troy is one of the only one's willing to play the part. I would like to see Evans be more assertive. I think Cobb would probably be up for it if we put the ball in his hands as long as he's willing to pass the ball if he can't get himself a good look.

Those are the 3 options we have IMO. If Clark could turn and shoot I would include him...but he doesn't really have the fade away down. I don't think Jenifer is going to be in the game at that point.

 

[jacobkdoyle]

Yes...part of the problem is Troy is one of the only one's willing to play the part. I would like to see Evans be more assertive. I think Cobb would probably be up for it if we put the ball in his hands as long as he's willing to pass the ball if he can't get himself a good look.

Those are the 3 options we have IMO. If Clark could turn and shoot I would include him...but he doesn't really have the fade away down. I don't think Jenifer is going to be in the game at that point.

Yeah that can't get overlooked.

 

[jacobkdoyle]

They did try to go through Gary twice with under 3 minutes left. Do people not remember that? Mick drew the plays up, Gary got the ball. The first time Gary tried to work down and got stopped so he passed it out to Cobb and then Cobb gave it to Caupain with 7 seconds left on the clock 30 feet from the basket.


2nd time they got it down to Gary again and this time he fumbled it held it for a bit trying to work and then passed it to Caupain with 1 second on the clock and he threw up a 3.


2 shots from Caupain, neither one were drawn up for him and neither play was supposed to go through him. He got it at the end of the clock both times and had to throw stuff up a tough shot.


That's the reality of what happened. People can remember it however they want.

2 late in the shot clock touches in 3 minutes isn't exactly my definition of working through someone. I don't have the exact game log, but it seems to me like Clark was much more involved earlier in the half.

 

[cincrulz11]

2 late in the shot clock touches in 3 minutes isn't exactly my definition of working through someone. I don't have the exact game log, but it seems to me like Clark was much more involved earlier in the half.

Clark didn't get the ball late in either possession. He got it early with more than enough time to go to work. He wasn't able to execute and couldn't even get a shot up.


The only possessions for us after those 2 plays for Gary were the possession where Ellis got 2 free throws, then Caupains shot that got blocked, then Cobbs 3 at the end. We only had 3 possessions the last 1:54 of the game. SMU got 2 offensive rebounds in that span resulting in 5 points.

 

[jacobkdoyle]

Clark didn't get the ball late in either possession. He got it early with more than enough time to go to work. He wasn't able to execute and couldn't even get a shot up.


The only possessions for us after those 2 plays for Gary were the possession where Ellis got 2 free throws, then Caupains shot that got blocked, then Cobbs 3 at the end. We only had 3 possessions the last 1:54 of the game. SMU got 2 offensive rebounds in that span resulting in 5 points.

Well there you go. My recall on the order and time in those type of games isn't great.

Side note- Ellis went 2-2 at the line late in that game and made his FT against Butler. Props to him for that.

 

[cincrulz11]

Well there you go. My recall on the order and time in those type of games isn't great.

I don't think anybodies is when they are intensely watching the game. I wouldn't have been able to recall the order of that stuff without looking it up. I thought we tried to go through Clark twice, but I wouldn't have bet money on that fact.


I also would have thought for sure we had more possessions the last 2 minutes.

 

[Bulldog01]

No. The approach Mick is taking might not be best for a couple current older guys since they are so used to complete coach control. But it encourages the guys who are going to be around to start taking more ownership of our success. And the younger they are when that starts, the better. I think having more freedom helps with confidence and overall in-game player development in the long run. The last step to that is to not play favorites and giving every player a chance. Drives me nuts how terrified Mick is to let certain guys play their game. But he has been singing a different tune much of this year, so that's a start.

Mick is full of shit. Right donor comes along he'll be gone before our SR graduate. Everybody on bench getting paid more than any of us I'll imagine. Hold yourself accountable then your kids

 

[Bulldog01]

Doug we threw the ball inbounds wit 8 seconds on the clock. I'll ask you if you were Larry Brown what would you have told your team? I know what I would say. Cobb is not getting a open look and if TC wants to drive the lane we will weak side help. Now the problem with going to Clark is the time. He method of scoring is to back his man down and post him turn and shoot. Is there time for that? Let him gain position,throw him the ball and let him go to work. I do not know. Your quick twitch scorers have to be involved.Ghe problem we had was TC didn't draw the defense and made a bad decision. It happens.

the game is 5vs5. Smu was basically doubling Cobb the entire possession. PG skills should've told you that somebody was either wide the hell open or YOU was the open man.

 

[Bulldog01]

They did try to go through Gary twice with under 3 minutes left. Do people not remember that? Mick drew the plays up, Gary got the ball. The first time Gary tried to work down and got stopped so he passed it out to Cobb and then Cobb gave it to Caupain with 7 seconds left on the clock 30 feet from the basket.


2nd time they got it down to Gary again and this time he fumbled it held it for a bit trying to work and then passed it to Caupain with 1 second on the clock and he threw up a 3.


2 shots from Caupain, neither one were drawn up for him and neither play was supposed to go through him. He got it at the end of the clock both times and had to throw stuff up a tough shot.


That's the reality of what happened. People can remember it however they want.

7-8 seconds is a lot of time for PG in full court. About 30% of shot clock?

 

[Bulldog01]

Yeah that can't get overlooked.

KJ. Evans. Cobb. You guys say anything. Hell Shaq i love to shoot last shots. It's #10 that doesn't want to play part. He doesn't even have confidence dribbling. I know you notice how he NEVER gets the ball and just go. He passed to doubled team Cobb in CORNER, in the other game he ran into double in corner himself. I'll say #10 is the last person on team that wants take last second shot