Louisville to the ACC

[bearcat jeff]

It's interesting that we keep harping that the fans are the only reason we have not gotten a bid. I think there is more blame to pass around. I know we may be talking about apples in oranges but isn't it interesting that for the 2011 seasons of basketball and football that Rutgers averaged 5,635 attendance in an 8000 seat arena and they had to do all kinds of begging for the non-conference games. They averaged 42,355 in football in a 52,000 seat stadium.

Maryland had 14,900 attendance for basketball in a 17,950 arena and averaged 43,000 attendance in football in a 54,000 seat stadium.

And that's far better than the 21,000 or so for football and 7,800 for basketball here on a game by game basis.Neither of those programs have had never the dual sport success recently and the budgets are bigger and they bring in more revenue than UC.

 

[Bearcat22]

According to the realignment "guru" on Mo Edgar's show yesterday, UC will go in the next wave of moves regardless. My point is UC fans have this elevated view of their programs. It's not only about winning. It's revenue!! Big time programs have atmosphere at their games. You know if you play them the place will be full and loud. Big time basketball programs are at or near capacity every game regardless of who they play. Big time football programs don't have to beg fans to come to the games. Fans and attendance matter period. For whatever reason fans have never supported the football program, again except big games, and the basketball fanbase has been awol since Huggins left which tells me they were Huggins fans and not UC fans in the first place. The unversity has to put money into marketing and find ways to get asses in seats.

I agree that there needs to be some sort of marketing / outreach to get people more feeling excited about the team and feel some sort of connection. Cincy fans can be stubborn, but that's not a good enough excuse, the administration knows this.

It's so annoying seeing a bad Xavier team sell out home games against bad competition or Kentucky fans that show up in greater numbers for a practice than some UC home games.

 

[bearcat jeff]

I agree that there needs to be some sort of marketing / outreach to get people more feeling excited about the team and feel some sort of connection. Cincy fans can be stubborn, but that's not a good enough excuse, the administration knows this.

It's so annoying seeing a bad Xavier team sell out home games against bad competition or Kentucky fans that show up in greater numbers for a practice than some UC home games.

It matters especially when it's all about revenue.

 

[Hicks' Guns]

I'm struggling to figure out what will push up attendance around here other than great success of the program (even if that will do it). I'm shocked that based on the Sweet 16 last year, attendance still sucks this year. Maybe that will change when the Big East play rolls around but I'm not holding my breath. On the heals of D'Antonio and Kelly, football attendance got a boost but that's decreased the last couple of years and if Butch bolts, it may even moreso.

Even if our boys in basketball made the Final Four this year, would we have a packed house next year? Based on early season attendance figures, that seems hard to believe.

 

[Bearcat22]

It matters especially when it's all about revenue.

Agree 100% about the revenue.

I also think UC does a terrible job promoting their image locally and nationally. The "Huggs Thugs" perception still lingers nationally for basketball and football is percieved as coaching stepping stone.

 

[UCBearcats]

This post got me to register so I could add my two cents.

I've been going to UC football games for several years now including both BCS bowls. I couldn't agree more that the atmosphere around the team is not "big time". Compared to FL and VaTech, the entire UC contingent - team, fans, cheerleaders, band, etc. - just seemed happy to be there and didn't have the swagger of a big-time program.

I think they aren't marketing themselves enough in the area to appeal to a wider fan base, and they aren't doing enough to energize the fans they already have. The marching band is basically a big high school band, and the gameday staff doesn't give them nearly enough time to play with all the ads and other garbage they put out on the scoreboard. The cheerleaders are an afterthought - you hardly ever see them trying to get the entire stadium involved. And the wireless coverage at Nippert is horrible. It may seem trivial but a great way to build buzz around the program is through social media. If your fans can't tweet or post on Facebook about the game while they're there you losing out on a great opportunity to have others promote the program for you.

UC not only needs to be more aggressive on the marketing side, they also need to make the gameday experience more exciting.

On the positive side, the team always plays lights out. The support from the students in the last few years has been phenomenal. And you can buy beer.

UC football has a lot going for it. They just need to do a better job of getting people excited and involved.

The best way to market is to win. We sold out Nippert with Kelly because we won and we won a lot. We weren't just hopeful that the team would win, we were good and we knew it. Winning was expected. When Huggs was here we drew well for basketball because we were good and we knew it. Winning wasn't a nice surprise, it was expected. In both cases we had teams that finished in the top 10 or 15 in the country on a regular basis and had legitimate chances to compete for national championships. That's what is required to draw in this city. People aren't going to get excited about a 7-5 football team or a middle of the Big East basketball team that finishes the season on the bubble. To both of our teams and coaches credit we are moving back to where we need to be but we are not there yet. UC could spend more money on marketing and attract corporate partners to help with the efforts but the only real way to get buy in from the fan base is to win. You don't attain the swagger atmosphere thru marketing your product, you attain it through building confidence in your fan base by winning consistently.

If we lose Coach Jones and have another year or two of rebuilding in the football program we're going to continue to see football attendance drop. It's only natural and it's not a problem that only exists at UC. This problem exists almost everywhere. If you don't win you won't attract the casual fan. The casual fan is the difference between a half empty stadium and a sell out crowd.

 

[UCBearcats]

Agree 100% about the revenue.

I also think UC does a terrible job promoting their image locally and nationally. The "Huggs Thugs" perception still lingers nationally for basketball and football is percieved as coaching stepping stone.

First of all, the "Huggs Thugs" perception wasn't a bad thing for this school. It got us on the cover of Sports Illustrated, everyone knew who we were and that we were a force to be reckoned with on the basketball court. The city loved the team and the coach and university made a ton of money off of that basketball program.

If we lose Coach Jones (which I believe we will) then the stepping stone argument is not a perception, it's a reality.

 

[JasonS]

If you want to increase attendance (especially at basketball games) you have to have a fan friendly arena. To have a fan friendly arena you need a new arena or major renovations to the current one. To have a new arena you need money. So there is your conundrum. It is the chicken or the egg argument. If UC wants to solve this problem (especially on the basketball side) they need to get a big time corporate sponsor put up the money for a new basketball arena. 5/3, P&G, Kroger or any of the others need to step up. P&G spends millions upon millions on advertising each year. They should be the number 1 company UC goes to asking for donations for a new arena.

 

[acCat]

The best way to market is to win.

Agreed.

You don't attain the swagger atmosphere thru marketing your product, you attain it through building confidence in your fan base by winning consistently.

You also get it by changing the gameday experience to be more in line with those of major programs. Upgrade the experience and you make it more attractive to casual fans.

 

[JasonS]

Agreed.You also get it by changing the gameday experience to be more in line with those of major programs. Upgrade the experience and you make it more attractive to casual fans.

I agree with this. My biggest frustration at UC games is that I can't check scores of other games on my phone or check twitter to get any updates on player injuries, etc. It is a cellular black hole and that is something that really needs to change. I think they have done a great job with the intro videos for football and basketball and I like that they have changed them every year. They need to add a kid friendly zone where they can meet the Bearcat or play games before the game starts. I have a 3 year old girl who LOVES Bearcat and wants to go to every football game with me. Most of the time, she is good and we stay till the end of the game. Sometimes, though, she can get a little bored and we leave a bit early. I never bring her down early because I know she will lose interest before the game even starts. If they had a kid area BEFORE the game, I would bring her down to tailgate every single game. I think it would help improve the atmosphere a bit.

I have season tickets for football and would for basketball if I lived closer but, I think UC needs to focus less on season ticket holders and more on the casual fan. The die hards will come almost regardless.

 

[UCBearcats]

If you want to increase attendance (especially at basketball games) you have to have a fan friendly arena. To have a fan friendly arena you need a new arena or major renovations to the current one. To have a new arena you need money. So there is your conundrum. It is the chicken or the egg argument. If UC wants to solve this problem (especially on the basketball side) they need to get a big time corporate sponsor put up the money for a new basketball arena. 5/3, P&G, Kroger or any of the others need to step up. P&G spends millions upon millions on advertising each year. They should be the number 1 company UC goes to asking for donations for a new arena.

I hate to always be disagreeing with you but again I have to argue the other side. A new arena is a contributing factor but not a major factor. Having a new arena would be great for hosting recruits and for the overall experience that one gets when attending the game but in the long run fans aren't going to come to games to see the new arena. The evidence is right in front of you, name one city that has built a new arena and packed it night in and night out without putting a winning product on the field. You'll see a jump the first season but after that you'll need to win to fill the place up. Look at PBS or GABP, the perfect case study is right in front of your eyes. People aren't going to come to games in this city if the teams aren't realistically contending for championships. Not only do the teams have to be contending, the fans have to believe that the team is contenting in order to show up in large numbers.

We need a new arena, but a new arena isn't going to solve our problems and we can still pack the arena that we already have. I hope that Mick continues to grow the program but at this point basketball isn't where we need it to be in order to see packed houses night in and night out. Making a sweet 16 might be enough to fire up the Xavier fan base but not ours. Fans need to believe that this team is a top 10 team that will compete year in and year out because we've had that before.

People aren't going to get fired up to head down to PBS and see the 8-8 Bengals, they aren't going to get fired up to go see the Reds contend for 3rd place in the NL central and they aren't going to get fired up to see the Bearcats basketball team go 21-11 and fight for an 8 seed in the NCAA tourney. People will however get fired up to see the Reds win the central, as evidenced by last season or the see the Xavier basketball team that has made the Elite 8 however many times in the past 5 seasons.

 

[bearcat jeff]

I hate to always be disagreeing with you but again I have to argue the other side. A new arena is a contributing factor but not a major factor. Having a new arena would be great for hosting recruits and for the overall experience that one gets when attending the game but in the long run fans aren't going to come to games to see the new arena. The evidence is right in front of you, name one city that has built a new arena and packed it night in and night out without putting a winning product on the field. You'll see a jump the first season but after that you'll need to win to fill the place up. Look at PBS or GABP, the perfect case study is right in front of your eyes. People aren't going to come to games in this city if the teams aren't realistically contending for championships. Not only do the teams have to be contending, the fans have to believe that the team is contenting in order to show up in large numbers.
We need a new arena, but a new arena isn't going to solve our problems and we can still pack the arena that we already have. I hope that Mick continues to grow the program but at this point basketball isn't where we need it to be in order to see packed houses night in and night out. Making a sweet 16 might be enough to fire up the Xavier fan base but not ours. Fans need to believe that this team is a top 10 team that will compete year in and year out because we've had that before.
People aren't going to get fired up to head down to PBS and see the 8-8 Bengals, they aren't going to get fired up to go see the Reds contend for 3rd place in the NL central and they aren't going to get fired up to see the Bearcats basketball team go 21-11 and fight for an 8 seed in the NCAA tourney. People will however get fired up to see the Reds win the central, as evidenced by last season or the see the Xavier basketball team that has made the Elite 8 however many times in the past 5 seasons.

The Reds posted their second highest seasons attendance this past season. The Bengals draw enough to be competitive and I believe have sold out all but 2 home games this season.

What do the fans need to see? This basketball team was in the Big East championship game, went to a Sweet 16, have won 52 games in 2 years, just won a tournament championship, are a top 4 pick in one of the toughest conferences in basketball, and oh btw brings back nearly the whole roster from that Sweet 16 team that is ranked in the top 20.

UC football vies for the League championship nearly every year. How many times do they have to win a championship before this lethargic fan base catches on?

Cincinnati sports fans are not fans they are frontrunners. They want an event. They'll show up for big games but they won't support the teams. They cost the university revenue (which restricts budgets which effects facilities and recruiting), the city exposure because ESPN and the like don't want to broadcast from 1/2-3/4 full arenas, and it hurts recruiting when their is no atmosphere on visits. Xavier or UK could bring a recruit to any game. UC can't. Fans want a big time program but fail to recognize the part they play in making a program big time.

 

[JasonS]

I hate to always be disagreeing with you but again I have to argue the other side. A new arena is a contributing factor but not a major factor. Having a new arena would be great for hosting recruits and for the overall experience that one gets when attending the game but in the long run fans aren't going to come to games to see the new arena. The evidence is right in front of you, name one city that has built a new arena and packed it night in and night out without putting a winning product on the field. You'll see a jump the first season but after that you'll need to win to fill the place up. Look at PBS or GABP, the perfect case study is right in front of your eyes. People aren't going to come to games in this city if the teams aren't realistically contending for championships. Not only do the teams have to be contending, the fans have to believe that the team is contenting in order to show up in large numbers.

We need a new arena, but a new arena isn't going to solve our problems and we can still pack the arena that we already have. I hope that Mick continues to grow the program but at this point basketball isn't where we need it to be in order to see packed houses night in and night out. Making a sweet 16 might be enough to fire up the Xavier fan base but not ours. Fans need to believe that this team is a top 10 team that will compete year in and year out because we've had that before.

People aren't going to get fired up to head down to PBS and see the 8-8 Bengals, they aren't going to get fired up to go see the Reds contend for 3rd place in the NL central and they aren't going to get fired up to see the Bearcats basketball team go 21-11 and fight for an 8 seed in the NCAA tourney. People will however get fired up to see the Reds win the central, as evidenced by last season or the see the Xavier basketball team that has made the Elite 8 however many times in the past 5 seasons.

You don't think people stay away from UC Basketball games because they get a better experience at home? That is the main reason my wife doesn't want to go to many games. She would rather watch it at home where she can see what is going on. We don't live close enough to have season tickets in the lower bowl so we are buying single game tickets up high. The view up there sucks. I go because I am a huge fan. If I was a casual fan, I wouldn't pay $20 to sit up there, plus parking, plus food and drink when I could watch the games in HD at home. I disagree with you. I think the arena is the biggest factor in poor attendance at UC home games.

Remember when Xavier played at the Cincinnati Gardens? That place sucked to watch any sporting event. They weren't selling out then either. All of a sudden you get a nice new arena with nice sight lines for the fans and people show up.

 

[JackBauer151]

You don't think people stay away from UC Basketball games because they get a better experience at home? That is the main reason my wife doesn't want to go to many games. She would rather watch it at home where she can see what is going on. We don't live close enough to have season tickets in the lower bowl so we are buying single game tickets up high. The view up there sucks. I go because I am a huge fan. If I was a casual fan, I wouldn't pay $20 to sit up there, plus parking, plus food and drink when I could watch the games in HD at home. I disagree with you. I think the arena is the biggest factor in poor attendance at UC home games.

Remember when Xavier played at the Cincinnati Gardens? That place sucked to watch any sporting event. They weren't selling out then either. All of a sudden you get a nice new arena with nice sight lines for the fans and people show up.

I have to agree with Jason. While I dont think that the arena dilemma is the only culprit in fan attendance it is certainly a big one. 5\3 was built at the worst possible time. It was built right at the end of the era where you built multi purpose gyms instead of "arenas". Experience is what it is all about. That includes the quality of the team, quality of the team being played, and the arena that it is played in. Im just like Jason whereas I go to games because I'm a huge fan but getting the casual fan to go with me is like pulling teeth. The experience just isnt good enough to go anymore unless its a top team that we are playing. Back in the Huggins days you knew it was going to be sold out and you put up with uncomfortable seats and bad views to be a part of that atmosphere. With HD tv and a tepid fan base you dont have to put up with that anymore. New arena means more fans. More fans means better environment. Better environment means better experience. Its a must get if we want to ever be a true powerhouse in basketball. Getting it is a whole other ball of wax but there has to be some plan in place over the next 10 years to get it done.....

 

[UCBearcats]

I have to agree with Jason. While I dont think that the arena dilemma is the only culprit in fan attendance it is certainly a big one. 5\3 was built at the worst possible time. It was built right at the end of the era where you built multi purpose gyms instead of "arenas". Experience is what it is all about. That includes the quality of the team, quality of the team being played, and the arena that it is played in. Im just like Jason whereas I go to games because I'm a huge fan but getting the casual fan to go with me is like pulling teeth. The experience just isnt good enough to go anymore unless its a top team that we are playing. Back in the Huggins days you knew it was going to be sold out and you put up with uncomfortable seats and bad views to be a part of that atmosphere. With HD tv and a tepid fan base you dont have to put up with that anymore. New arena means more fans. More fans means better environment. Better environment means better experience. Its a must get if we want to ever be a true powerhouse in basketball. Getting it is a whole other ball of wax but there has to be some plan in place over the next 10 years to get it done.....

I agree, we need a new arena and there should be a plan in place to get one but that isn't going to happen in the next 2, 3 or 4 years. In the time between now and then it's still possible to pack 5/3rd arena on a regular basis. We did it when Huggs was here and we can do it again. 5/3rd is a dump, we all know that but at least the campus and surrounding areas are a lot nicer today than they were 10 years ago when we were packing the place. If you win consistently people will come and Mick is close to getting us to that point. Winning grows the buzz, grows the attendance, grows the revenue and allows the school to get serious about building a new arena. I promise you it doesn't happen in backwards order. Brian Kelly won big and got a practice bubble and damn near got a renovated stadium and would have if he didn't leave.

 

[david aka the TYZ]

If you want to increase attendance (especially at basketball games) you have to have a fan friendly arena. To have a fan friendly arena you need a new arena or major renovations to the current one. To have a new arena you need money. So there is your conundrum. It is the chicken or the egg argument. If UC wants to solve this problem (especially on the basketball side) they need to get a big time corporate sponsor put up the money for a new basketball arena. 5/3, P&G, Kroger or any of the others need to step up. P&G spends millions upon millions on advertising each year. They should be the number 1 company UC goes to asking for donations for a new arena.

I'm surprised P&G is not a major sponsor of the school. I believe the founding fathers of the company were graduates of UC. I know I've heard the Gamble name thrown around in UC history. I agree this should be our main target. Cincinnati is a weird city. We could talk at length for hours as to economic issues and the family atmosphere this city has as to how this city is shaped and how they choose to support their sports teams. But bottom line is Cincinnati is an above average city financially and has some seriously major companies right in it's back yard.

Regarding fan support there are two pionts I want to make. First, we are hurt in two ways that some of our counterparts aren't. One we are a major league city. Louisville is not. In fact most major college programs do not reside in major league cities. Some people choose to invest their money in following the Reds and some in the Bengals, some in Xavier. The average family might can afford to splurge in getting season tickets to one sport, but not more than one. Also, Ohio State still draws alot of fans from the Cincinnati market. While this can be looked at as an excuse it does draw from potential donors to the school. More realistically what it does is allow the average fan to be more fair-weather because they can follow and more importantly put their money on who is hot. The Bengals had their resurgance and they started selling out. The Reds attendance has gone up with the recent winning. Xavier's attendance saw a boom with recent success. Our football program came from nowhere with a little winning. While winning will solve alot of ills it doesn't solely solve the problem of why people will choose us over several other options in the city.

My second point is more regarding basketball attendance issues. While I agree the Shoe is not ideal, I feel that is an excuse most fans use when they weren't planning on going to the game anyway. If you want to see them play and you're a fan you'll go see them anywhere. They sold out the season in 2000 and it was the same arena and people hated it back then. I think more the issue is the pricing of season tickets. Football saw a boom in attendance because tickets are affordable. Most tickets get out for a $50 or $100 donation. Basketball is not the same. Good seats at the Shoe will cost a family of four with donation and parking upwards of $6000. A friend of mine got day of game tickets to the NC A&T game in the second row court side. I was shocked that these seats were not sold out and they are still asking $1500 and $3500 donations for upper deck seats. I'll be honest, while this is the first year I took the plunge on season tickets I seriously considered just buying tickets to about 15 games like I've done in years past because you still get the same caliber seats and you don't have to pay the donation. I realize the donation is what goes to fund the sports and the scholarships, but most people are only concerned about the dollars in their own pockets and don't want to waste them. As it sits my seats, which are upper deck and when I look straight forward are staring behind the basket and not at the court, cost me for the season for two seats, the donation and parking pass $1450. That's 20 games, 18 that count. So for games that count on the schedule I'm spending an average of just over $80 a game. And my friend got to sit two rows up from the court for $70 for two tickets. My point is more why the upper deck still costs so much when they haven't sold out the lower deck, especially courtside lower deck. I always told myself I wouldn't get season tickets until I could afford lower deck seats because I didn't want to invest money and not have good seats. While for the most part I'm happy with my seats and fortunatley I'm doing good financially it still kind of burns me. Another thing is they'll offer better deals to help sell tickets after the fact, when I've paid in advance to be at all the games and support the program. My point is, these are things that keep people from buying season tickets. People who don't buy season tickets will pick and choose the best games to go to. And those games won't be Campbell or Mississippi Valley State. Thus low attendance. After typing all this I think I am going to write the school about these issues and try to offer some ideas as to how to better reward season ticket holders. No.1 should be randomly upgrade tickets to some of these games where 5,000 people show up so that your donors who pay more for their upper deck seats can sit in better seats than people walking up to the ticket window.

 

[UCalum08]

It has blown my mind that P&G does not pour money into UC and I still don't get it. Cincinnati has a ton of fortune 500 companies and we can't get any of them to help? Doesnt make sense.... do anyone know if UC tries and they get simply rejected? I would love to sit in on a meeting with UC president and CEO of P&G and hear why they wouldn't fund for a new arena. I mean P&G could build their own freaking campus.

 

[mplebanon]

I said ul was gone months ago and Ralph doubted me.

Anyways, uc will be fine. Realignment is not over. Fsu, Clemson, vt, Virginia, unc, nc state, Miami and gt all have interest from bcs conferences. Now it's a matter of Maryland creating the blueprint to get out of the acc. Once more teams leave, uc will be in the acc

What'd you do? Rub your Magic 8 ball?

Ralph doubted you? OMG!!!!!!!!!! How dare he!!!!! You must really care alot about what Ralph thinks if that bothers you.

Anyone can predict this isn't over. It's obvious.

 

[Nomadic1]

First of all, the "Huggs Thugs" perception wasn't a bad thing for this school. It got us on the cover of Sports Illustrated, everyone knew who we were and that we were a force to be reckoned with on the basketball court. The city loved the team and the coach and university made a ton of money off of that basketball program.

If we lose Coach Jones (which I believe we will) then the stepping stone argument is not a perception, it's a reality.

I don't know if the Donald Little bit, where he threatened to kill his roommate and have people dump his body in columbus helped the perception of our university. Things got a little crazy. Huggins with the DUI, the gold pimp suit. Maybe we became a little power mad. I miss the old jumpman uniforms, I'll give you that.

 

[Bearcat22]

This link was in the ESPN NCAAFB rumors section mentioning Charlie Strong as a possible Tennessee coach.

http://blogs.knoxnews.com/woodbery/...it-down-to-mike-gundy-and-charlie-strong.html

same section on ESPN notes that their are conflicting reports about Gundy taking the Arkansas job.