Next year's scholarship situation

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WAITE HOYT 2 said:
never hurts to have physical ability and natural talent to go along with experience. What has JJ done with his 3 years of experience?
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There wouldn't have been a human being on the planet that would have guesssed that Kenyon Martin would even be jokingly mentioned or considered for the consensus national player of the year after his junior season. Yet, the improvement in one season was astonomical....Pts per game increased by 87%, rebounds by 41%, blocks by 46%, Free Throws by 12 percentage points. Who knows when the light bulb will go on for JJ? But, I'm not casting him aside and giving up on him, especially when I don't yet see better options other than a bunch of inexperienced high schoolers.
 
L-T said:
There wouldn't have been a human being on the planet that would have guesssed that Kenyon Martin would even be jokingly mentioned or considered for the consensus national player of the year after his junior season. Yet, the improvement in one season was astonomical....Pts per game increased by 87%, rebounds by 41%, blocks by 46%, Free Throws by 12 percentage points. Who knows when the light bulb will go on for JJ? But, I'm not casting him aside and giving up on him, especially when I don't yet see better options other than a bunch of inexperienced high schoolers.
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Comparing Martin and JJ isn't even close. I've seen JJ and nothing to this point says key contributor. More likely role player. If he is playing a lot of minutes which he won't because even when he gets opportunities he fouls and has to come out he is not productive. He may play if Strickland isn't ready but that case won't be good for our Cats.
 
WAITE HOYT 2 said:
Comparing Martin and JJ isn't even close. I've seen JJ and nothing to this point says key contributor. More likely role player. If he is playing a lot of minutes which he won't because even when he gets opportunities he fouls and has to come out he is not productive. He may play if Strickland isn't ready but that case won't be good for our Cats.
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I wasn't suggesting that JJ is the same type player, but their descriptions are similar. Kenyon was a foul prone, athletic shot blocker, with not much offensive game. He got most of his points off dunks, alley-oops, and rebounds....and he couldn't shoot free throws. Sound familiar? The difference is that Kenyon's supporting cast was much better. I'm not suggesting that he could become the POY, but tremendous improvement is possible.....and I expect to see it. We don't need to argue the point any further, but I'm 100% confident that I'll be proved right and JJ will have a major role and not a minor role next year.

Listen, I was highly disappointed with him this year. But, I hope he got a wake-up call, and I think he'll respond. We'll see how it plays out.
 
L-T said:
I wasn't suggesting that JJ is the same type player, but their descriptions are similar. Kenyon was a foul prone, athletic shot blocker, with not much offensive game. He got most of his points off dunks, alley-oops, and rebounds....and he couldn't shoot free throws. Sound familiar? The difference is that Kenyon's supporting cast was much better. I'm not suggesting that he could become the POY, but tremendous improvement is possible.....and I expect to see it. We don't need to argue the point any further, but I'm 100% confident that I'll be proved right and JJ will have a major role and not a minor role next year.

Listen, I was highly disappointed with him this year. But, I hope he got a wake-up call, and I think he'll respond. We'll see how it plays out.
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I agree with this. I too was disappointed but I still think he brings a lot to the table. It will depend on how good HE wants to be. If he puts the time in during the offseason he can be a different player.

As for the scholarship situation, I think Gaines is the one to go because he takes up a scholarship for 2 more years and Big Dave, only one. Throw in the fact that he will graduate in three years and be able to use the grad student loop hole to transfer without sitting out a year, and I think this makes the most sense for everyone.

That would free up scholarships from JJ, SK, Big Dave, and Titus for the class of 2014 and would mean that Mick will need to get some size in the program in that class too. In fact, I would think some talented Bigs would be very interested in UC based on playing time possibilities.
 
JasonS said:
I agree with this. I too was disappointed but I still think he brings a lot to the table. It will depend on how good HE wants to be. If he puts the time in during the offseason he can be a different player.

As for the scholarship situation, I think Gaines is the one to go because he takes up a scholarship for 2 more years and Big Dave, only one. Throw in the fact that he will graduate in three years and be able to use the grad student loop hole to transfer without sitting out a year, and I think this makes the most sense for everyone.

That would free up scholarships from JJ, SK, Big Dave, and Titus for the class of 2014 and would mean that Mick will need to get some size in the program in that class too. In fact, I would think some talented Bigs would be very interested in UC based on playing time possibilities.
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I for one think Titus will be a much better player next season. In terms of understanding what he can and can't do and decision making. Him and Lawrence could be big match up problems at the 4. Lawrence can stretch a defense and Rubles can get by off the dribble. 2014 needs to add size.
 
bearcat jeff said:
I for one think Titus will be a much better player next season. In terms of understanding what he can and can't do and decision making. Him and Lawrence could be big match up problems at the 4. Lawrence can stretch a defense and Rubles can get by off the dribble. 2014 needs to add size.
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Mick also said that they noticed a flaw with Titus' shot before the season but didn't want to tinker with it and make him think about it along with adjusting to the speed of the game. Those changes will be made in the offseason and hopefully he will be more reliable from mid range.
 
L-T said:
I wasn't suggesting that JJ is the same type player, but their descriptions are similar. Kenyon was a foul prone, athletic shot blocker, with not much offensive game. He got most of his points off dunks, alley-oops, and rebounds....and he couldn't shoot free throws. Sound familiar? The difference is that Kenyon's supporting cast was much better. I'm not suggesting that he could become the POY, but tremendous improvement is possible.....and I expect to see it. We don't need to argue the point any further, but I'm 100% confident that I'll be proved right and JJ will have a major role and not a minor role next year.

Listen, I was highly disappointed with him this year. But, I hope he got a wake-up call, and I think he'll respond. We'll see how it plays out.
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Even though our opinions differ on JJ's impact next season. I'm really hoping that you're the one proven correct. We're a better team with him producing.
 
JasonS said:
Mick also said that they noticed a flaw with Titus' shot before the season but didn't want to tinker with it and make him think about it along with adjusting to the speed of the game.
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Yeah, we saw that "flaw" all year. ;)
 
bearcat jeff said:
I for one think Titus will be a much better player next season. In terms of understanding what he can and can't do and decision making. Him and Lawrence could be big match up problems at the 4. Lawrence can stretch a defense and Rubles can get by off the dribble. 2014 needs to add size.
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Absolutely! I love this guy and see massive potential in him. Again, who knows what happened to him over the last month and a half? He obviously lost a ton of confidence during that stretch until he was almost unrecognizable compared to the player we saw in the first half. I still remember the game he had against Oregon and I'm hoping that player, plus some great improvement, emerges from the offseason. The offseason development of JJ and Titus will determine how next season plays out. JDIII is another important piece that could make a difference as well. Then, let's all hope that one or two of the freshmen pan out.....and we could really have something! Problem is....there are an awful lot of "ifs" tied to next season.
 
L-T said:
I wasn't suggesting that JJ is the same type player, but their descriptions are similar. Kenyon was a foul prone, athletic shot blocker, with not much offensive game. He got most of his points off dunks, alley-oops, and rebounds....and he couldn't shoot free throws. Sound familiar? The difference is that Kenyon's supporting cast was much better. I'm not suggesting that he could become the POY, but tremendous improvement is possible.....and I expect to see it. We don't need to argue the point any further, but I'm 100% confidentr that I'll be proved right and JJ will have a major role and not a minor role next year.

Listen, I was highly disappointed with him this year. But, I hope he got a wake-up call, and I think he'll respond. We'll see how it plays out.
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hope I'm wrong about JJ but I see better than I hear. What I've seen is a 3 year role player who is going to be asked to play minutes at the 5 and he is physically not able.
 
One last thought if Strickland doesn't step up and make contributions we are going to be hurting to score like last year and I look for our defense to be weaker without Cash,Parker and Modj. The kids will need time to develope.
 
More tidbits from banquet last night

-Mick said Rubles is the he is the first JUCO player ever to go to D1 and lead his team in rebounding, said he looked it up and it is a fact.

-JDIII according to Cronin has been working on his diet and has reduced his body fat by a lot.

-Cronin was trying to get Savino job at Niagra, doesn't think it will happen. Savino never looks for openings, very dedicated. Said Savino wouldn't sleep until after signing day because of a recruit (JL)
 
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L-T said:
I wasn't suggesting that JJ is the same type player, but their descriptions are similar. Kenyon was a foul prone, athletic shot blocker, with not much offensive game. He got most of his points off dunks, alley-oops, and rebounds....and he couldn't shoot free throws. Sound familiar? The difference is that Kenyon's supporting cast was much better. I'm not suggesting that he could become the POY, but tremendous improvement is possible.....and I expect to see it. We don't need to argue the point any further, but I'm 100% confident that I'll be proved right and JJ will have a major role and not a minor role next year.

Listen, I was highly disappointed with him this year. But, I hope he got a wake-up call, and I think he'll respond. We'll see how it plays out.
Click to expand...

You think Kenyon's and JJ's descriptions are similar? Not much offensive game? That's the biggest misconception of Martin. He wasn't a stud offensively but he wasn't nearly as raw as people suggest. In Martin's first real season he averaged 10 points and 9 rebounds a game. In Jackson's first three years he hasn't even averaged 6 points a game. His first year he averaged 2.5 points. There is very little correlation between KMart and JJ. KMart also had a very high bball IQ, even as a freshman. JJ has shown that his bball IQ is very low. That goes a long way in a players development. After 3 years don't expect the light to suddenly come on. By now he pretty much is what you see. Hopefully he improves some but expecting a lot of improvement isn't realistic.
 
TheLongHaul said:
You think Kenyon's and JJ's descriptions are similar? Not much offensive game? That's the biggest misconception of Martin. He wasn't a stud offensively but he wasn't nearly as raw as people suggest. In Martin's first real season he averaged 10 points and 9 rebounds a game. In Jackson's first three years he hasn't even averaged 6 points a game. His first year he averaged 2.5 points. There is very little correlation between KMart and JJ. KMart also had a very high bball IQ, even as a freshman. JJ has shown that his bball IQ is very low. That goes a long way in a players development. After 3 years don't expect the light to suddenly come on. By now he pretty much is what you see. Hopefully he improves some but expecting a lot of improvement isn't realistic.
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While I also disagree with the K-Mart comparison, JJ has shown improvement but couldn't show it this year because he couldn't stay healthy. I think he would've averaged about 8 ppg last year if he was healthy.
 
Patrick Bateman said:
More tidbits from banquet last night

-Mick said Rubles is the he is the first JUCO player ever to go to D1 and lead his team in rebounding, said he looked it up and it is a fact.

-JDIII according to Cronin has been working on his diet and has reduced his body fat by a lot.

-Cronin was trying to get Savino job at Niagra, doesn't think it will happen. Savino never looks for openings, very dedicated. Said Savino wouldn't sleep until after signing day because of a recruit (JL)
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Didn't Shawn Marion lead UNLV in rebounding?
 
JumpinJack5 said:
While I also disagree with the K-Mart comparison, JJ has shown improvement but couldn't show it this year because he couldn't stay healthy. I think he would've averaged about 8 ppg last year if he was healthy.
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I hope you are right, I just think the injury is another excuse. He wasn't lighting it up early in the year.
 
TheLongHaul said:
I hope you are right, I just think the injury is another excuse. He wasn't lighting it up early in the year.
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I believe he had an injury before the year, recovered, and then got hurt again. He played really well against Marquette and then he reaggrivated his injury and was pretty much a non-factor down the stretch....
 
L-T said:
Absolutely! I love this guy and see massive potential in him. Again, who knows what happened to him over the last month and a half? He obviously lost a ton of confidence during that stretch until he was almost unrecognizable compared to the player we saw in the first half. I still remember the game he had against Oregon and I'm hoping that player, plus some great improvement, emerges from the offseason. The offseason development of JJ and Titus will determine how next season plays out. JDIII is another important piece that could make a difference as well. Then, let's all hope that one or two of the freshmen pan out.....and we could really have something! Problem is....there are an awful lot of "ifs" tied to next season.
Click to expand...

JD3 played in 4 games and averaged 5.5 points, 2.5 rebounds, and 1.3 apg. He played 10.8 minutes per contest. I think we all agree our two primary scorers will be SK and Shaq, and we need 1 more consistent double digit scorer to step up.

The Sweet 16 team had four players average double figures (SK 14.3, Dion Dixon 13, Gates 12.2, Cash 10.9) and Parker came close at 9.4 ppg. After Parker it was JJ at 5.1 and the rest were 2.5 or below.

It was still a perimeter oriented team, but they had a big who was a threat and at times could take over, i.e. the Xavier and Georgetown (BEast tourny) games, and a team that accepted their roles. I keep telling people the loss of Dixon was as big as the loss of Gates because he gave you a finisher in the lane. If UC would have had bigs that could have just finished, even off of offensive rebounds, this team would have been a level above where it ended. It was compounded by the fact that none of the guards could penetrate and score.

JD3 has the body to score off contact, and he can hit the outside shot. In his only full season he hit nearly 39% from the 3 (12-31). At 6'3" if he gets his body fat down, and his conditioning up, he could be an X factor for UC with time on the court.

Personally, I think the initial plan is to look at transfer pgs for some experience, and JD3 will play 10-12 minutes at the 2 and spell the point as Dixon did. If the team stays as is, I think he'll be in the mix for the pg starting spot. My hope (emphasis hope) is GG can man the point. Playing behind Cash hasn't afforded him a ton of playing but he will get his chance to earn the starting spot. That enables you to use Davis as a combo guard, but primarily a 2, where I believe his skills are best suited.
 
bearcat jeff said:
JD3 played in 4 games and averaged 5.5 points, 2.5 rebounds, and 1.3 apg. He played 10.8 minutes per contest. I think we all agree our two primary scorers will be SK and Shaq, and we need 1 more consistent double digit scorer to step up.

The Sweet 16 team had four players average double figures (SK 14.3, Dion Dixon 13, Gates 12.2, Cash 10.9) and Parker came close at 9.4 ppg. After Parker it was JJ at 5.1 and the rest were 2.5 or below.

It was still a perimeter oriented team, but they had a big who was a threat and at times could take over, i.e. the Xavier and Georgetown (BEast tourny) games, and a team that accepted their roles. I keep telling people the loss of Dixon was as big as the loss of Gates because he gave you a finisher in the lane. If UC would have had bigs that could have just finished, even off of offensive rebounds, this team would have been a level above where it ended. It was compounded by the fact that none of the guards could penetrate and score.

JD3 has the body to score off contact, and he can hit the outside shot. In his only full season he hit nearly 39% from the 3 (12-31). At 6'3" if he gets his body fat down, and his conditioning up, he could be an X factor for UC with time on the court.

Personally, I think the initial plan is to look at transfer pgs for some experience, and JD3 will play 10-12 minutes at the 2 and spell the point as Dixon did. If the team stays as is, I think he'll be in the mix for the pg starting spot. My hope (emphasis hope) is GG can man the point. Playing behind Cash hasn't afforded him a ton of playing but he will get his chance to earn the starting spot. That enables you to use Davis as a combo guard, but primarily a 2, where I believe his skills are best suited.
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Jeff couldn't agree more on who our primary scorers will be next year.

Also agree that the loss of Dixion was huge. Not just for his slashing/finishing ability but when Cash was out of the game he handled the ball and was better than any back up we had this year.

Hope your right about Davis and Guyn. I don't see it though. Davis also neeeds to work on his handle.

Caulpin, Lawrence and Strickland will neeed to put up some points and play D.
 

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