Southeastern Louisiana

[cincrulz11]

Jenifer went to the scorers table to check in at 9:48 of the second half but the clock didn't stop until almost 5:00 when a timeout was called, so the clock ate up a lot of his time. He hit the only shot he took in the game and had a turnover when Ellis dropped his pass out of bounds. As bad as some of the guards played, it would have been nice to see what he could have done. It was a poor game that Jenifer had very little to do with. Evans was about the only bright spot.

When he got in the 2nd half he immediately threw an awful rainbow pass nearly out of bounds vs the press and Mick pulled him for it. It's almost like somebody does care about his turnover rate stat!

 

[UCalum08]

Like Mick said in the presser, our lack of boxing out and rebounding is a true concern. As well as how weak our bigs play around the rim. Chin the freaking ball, get a wide base and power up to the rim. It's bball 101. I trust coach to continue working with the guys to get better. We start to play teams with real size and talent so we won't be able to get away with some of the bad habits that occur when up 30-40 points. Our guys should be ready.

 

[waterhead]

Not obsessed at all. I just know the value of a true point guard, which is something we've lacked for most of Mick's teams. I like Caupain, but more off the ball than running the offense. I guess we'll just see how this all plays out in the long run but I've seen nothing yet to change my opinion of Jenifer. I liked him the first day I saw him and for the most part he has performed extremely well. Tonight, he didn't get a chance, but for the few minutes he played, he did well.

A "true point guard" has a main job of assisting other players and not turning it over. Scoring comes second.

Overall this year in 2 exhibitions and 5 games this is what the assists to turnovers look like.

TC...32-5 (6.4:1)
JJ...18-10 (1.8:1)

There is one game where they both had 9 assists and 1 TO. Take that one game away and this is what it looks like

TC...23-4 (5.75:1)
JJ...9-9 (1:1)

1:1 will not work in the PG business. 5.75:1 on the other hand would have lead the nation last year. Jenifer needs to take care of the ball more. I love Jenifer. He does almost everything else very well. He handles that ball with extreme skill, gets in creases we haven't seen penetrated in more than a decade, scores the ball pretty well, etc. But you can't turn it over as often as you assist. If he wants playing time in close games Cronin will not put in a player who is wreckless with the ball...it's too risky. Jenifer has to fix that before he sees extended minutes in big games.

 

[waterhead]

And TRUST me I want him to fix it and to play more!!

 

[jacobkdoyle]

Jenifer will have his ups and downs. 1.8 AST/TO isn't bad for the kind of player he is. I feel like it will only improve throughout his career. I like the role that everyone is in. I wish Cobb would've played more last night. I know KJ was good on D but we didn't exactly need that, seeing how they weren't trying to do anything anyway.

 

[waterhead]

Jenifer will have his ups and downs. 1.8 AST/TO isn't bad for the kind of player he is. I feel like it will only improve throughout his career. I like the role that everyone is in. I wish Cobb would've played more last night. I know KJ was good on D but we didn't exactly need that, seeing how they weren't trying to do anything anyway.

Ok I don't want to belabor this point because I like Jenifer a lot. But I don't get this line of thinking. He is a PG...it doesn't matter what type of player he is...he has to have a good assist to turnover ratio as a PG. If he has more turnovers with his style that means he has to create even more assists to counter it. And yes the 1.8:1 is not bad but that is heavily influenced by what I would call the exception right now for Jenifer the 9:1 game. His other 4 games are 5:7.

Out of 7 games and exhibitions Troy has 6 games at 4:1 or better. That is exceptional!!

 

[zako365]

They did what they had to do to potentially win the game. I for one was worried with about 5 minutes left. Excellent game plan for that team. Quit bitching.

 

[zako365]

Tough to score many points when the other team plays 4 in 1 out and holds the ball until 3 seconds on the shot clock. Hope we never schedule them again, that was stupid to watch, that coach needs to be smacked. They were going to lose regardless, might as well not be pussies about it and play actual basketball.

This is one of the most asinine posts I've ever seen. Coach put his team in position to win the game. I for one was worried with 5 minutes left. I'm sure future opponents took note how much we struggled.

 

[L-T]

A "true point guard" has a main job of assisting other players and not turning it over. Scoring comes second.

Overall this year in 2 exhibitions and 5 games this is what the assists to turnovers look like.

TC...32-5 (6.4:1)
JJ...18-10 (1.8:1)

There is one game where they both had 9 assists and 1 TO. Take that one game away and this is what it looks like

TC...23-4 (5.75:1)
JJ...9-9 (1:1)

1:1 will not work in the PG business. 5.75:1 on the other hand would have lead the nation last year. Jenifer needs to take care of the ball more. I love Jenifer. He does almost everything else very well. He handles that ball with extreme skill, gets in creases we haven't seen penetrated in more than a decade, scores the ball pretty well, etc. But you can't turn it over as often as you assist. If he wants playing time in close games Cronin will not put in a player who is wreckless with the ball...it's too risky. Jenifer has to fix that before he sees extended minutes in big games.

Again, you have to stop focusing on those stats. They don't tell the whole story. Last night he threw a pass to Ellis that bounced off his hands for a turnover. Our big guys have been inept at finishing close to the basket which has cost him a lot of assists. But they have gotten fouled a lot. As Mick said on his postgame show earlier this week, there should be an assist awarded when a good pass is made and the guy gets fouled and makes some foul shots. Caupain throws a simple pass to Cobb who hits a three 60% of the time and he gets an assist, but he doesn't have the same ability to see the floor and deliver the great pass. He's very conservative and thats fine when guys are hitting shots. But last night when nobody was hitting shots, it would have been nice to have a creator on the floor to try something else. It didn't happen and we barely squeaked out a victory against a horrible team. Again, I'm not saying he should start yet, but the coach didn't play him last night and we struggled to beat a bad team. Coincidense?

 

[waterhead]

This is one of the most asinine posts I've ever seen. Coach put his team in position to win the game. I for one was worried with 5 minutes left. I'm sure future opponents took note how much we struggled.

Us struggling with shooting had nothing to do with them milking the clock on the other end (which was a great strategy for them). For the most part we had open looks and didn't make them. Until the end we started hitting some shots finally

 

[TheLongHaul]

This is one of the most asinine posts I've ever seen. Coach put his team in position to win the game. I for one was worried with 5 minutes left. I'm sure future opponents took note how much we struggled.

Show me again where they were in position to win?

Yea, I'm sure future opponents are going to implement that strategy. The game was never in question, UC was never going to lose. It just made it a incredibly boring game to watch, and most likely play as well.

 

[TheLongHaul]

Again, you have to stop focusing on those stats. They don't tell the whole story. Last night he threw a pass to Ellis that bounced off his hands for a turnover. Our big guys have been inept at finishing close to the basket which has cost him a lot of assists. But they have gotten fouled a lot. As Mick said on his postgame show earlier this week, there should be an assist awarded when a good pass is made and the guy gets fouled and makes some foul shots. Caupain throws a simple pass to Cobb who hits a three 60% of the time and he gets an assist, but he doesn't have the same ability to see the floor and deliver the great pass. He's very conservative and thats fine when guys are hitting shots. But last night when nobody was hitting shots, it would have been nice to have a creator on the floor to try something else. It didn't happen and we barely squeaked out a victory against a horrible team. Again, I'm not saying he should start yet, but the coach didn't play him last night and we struggled to beat a bad team. Coincidense?

And he has also been spared some turnovers by UC just being more athletic than the other team. His bad pass to KJ last night while trying to break the press led to a turnover but JJ didn't get credited with a turnover. It goes both ways.

 

[waterhead]

Again, you have to stop focusing on those stats. They don't tell the whole story. Last night he threw a pass to Ellis that bounced off his hands for a turnover. Our big guys have been inept at finishing close to the basket which has cost him a lot of assists. But they have gotten fouled a lot. As Mick said on his postgame show earlier this week, there should be an assist awarded when a good pass is made and the guy gets fouled and makes some foul shots. Caupain throws a simple pass to Cobb who hits a three 60% of the time and he gets an assist, but he doesn't have the same ability to see the floor and deliver the great pass. He's very conservative and thats fine when guys are hitting shots. But last night when nobody was hitting shots, it would have been nice to have a creator on the floor to try something else. It didn't happen and we barely squeaked out a victory against a horrible team. Again, I'm not saying he should start yet, but the coach didn't play him last night and we struggled to beat a bad team. Coincidense?

If there was a slight difference in their numbers I could look it over as some dropped passes here or there but Troy gets passes dropped (or unfinished) too. It goes both ways. But there is a huge difference between their numbers which cannot be explained with anomalies.

 

[waterhead]

Again, you have to stop focusing on those stats. They don't tell the whole story. Last night he threw a pass to Ellis that bounced off his hands for a turnover. Our big guys have been inept at finishing close to the basket which has cost him a lot of assists. But they have gotten fouled a lot. As Mick said on his postgame show earlier this week, there should be an assist awarded when a good pass is made and the guy gets fouled and makes some foul shots. Caupain throws a simple pass to Cobb who hits a three 60% of the time and he gets an assist, but he doesn't have the same ability to see the floor and deliver the great pass. He's very conservative and thats fine when guys are hitting shots. But last night when nobody was hitting shots, it would have been nice to have a creator on the floor to try something else. It didn't happen and we barely squeaked out a victory against a horrible team. Again, I'm not saying he should start yet, but the coach didn't play him last night and we struggled to beat a bad team. Coincidense?

By the way, I only saw it once, but that pass to Ellis was just as much Jenifer's fault because it was fired like a bullet at close range. It didn't look like Ellis dropped it as much as it looked like it deflected at high speed off his hand.

Again I only saw it once but that was my impression and it could be wrong. I could maybe chalk that one up both ways

 

[jacobkdoyle]

Ok I don't want to belabor this point because I like Jenifer a lot. But I don't get this line of thinking. He is a PG...it doesn't matter what type of player he is...he has to have a good assist to turnover ratio as a PG. If he has more turnovers with his style that means he has to create even more assists to counter it. And yes the 1.8:1 is not bad but that is heavily influenced by what I would call the exception right now for Jenifer the 9:1 game. His other 4 games are 5:7.

Out of 7 games and exhibitions Troy has 6 games at 4:1 or better. That is exceptional!!

All I'm saying is 1.8 isn't bad for a freshman backup PG. It will only get better. Why do you keep taking out his best game like it didn't happen?

 

[waterhead]

All I'm saying is 1.8 isn't bad for a freshman backup PG. It will only get better. Why do you keep taking out his best game like it didn't happen?

He's definitely not bad for a freshman.

In stats sometimes you throw out anomalies to get better feel for his average game. I'm not acting like it didn't happen (that's why included the numbers with and without). I threw out Troy's 9:1 game too because 9 assists was an anomaly for both of them.

It happened...and I hope it happens a lot more

 

[waterhead]

He's definitely not bad for a freshman.

In stats sometimes you throw out anomalies to get better feel for his average game. I'm not acting like it didn't happen (that's why included the numbers with and without). I threw out Troy's 9:1 game too because 9 assists was an anomaly for both of them.

It happened...and I hope it happens a lot more

The reason I see it as an anomaly for both of them is because neither player has recorded more than 4 assists in any other exhibition or game.

 

[jacobkdoyle]

The reason I see it as an anomaly for both of them is because neither player has recorded more than 4 assists in any other exhibition or game.

5 games isn't a big sample size. We'll see how it pans out. I'm not going to waste any more time comparing TC and Jenifer, it's clear who should be in which role...and it works.

 

[waterhead]

5 games isn't a big sample size. We'll see how it pans out. I'm not going to waste anymore time comparing TC and Jenifer, it's clear who should be in which role...and it works.

I agree it's a small sample size...and there is loads of potential in Jenifer. I see more upside in Jenifer than Caupain

 

[L-T]

If there was a slight difference in their numbers I could look it over as some dropped passes here or there but Troy gets passes dropped (or unfinished) too. It goes both ways. But there is a huge difference between their numbers which cannot be explained with anomalies.

Again, basketball statistics are worthless. For example, Jenifer is shooting 55% from 3. If you look at the stat, it says he's a lights out shooter. However, he has banked in two threes, and he doesn't have very good form. But, if you're going with the stats as the be all and end all, Jenifer is blowing Caupain away as a shooter in every single stat. Now, I've got a superior passer and creator, who shoots lights out in addition, and we all know that Caupain is not that great defensively, so I can slant this argument way in Jenifer's favor, minus the turnover stat. We also know that a missed shot is actually a turnover in most cases, but doesn't get recorded as one, and with Caupain shooting sub .500 overall, and 28% from 3 and 66% from the free throw line, he is actually turning the ball over a lot without it getting recorded as one.

Anyway, this is why stats in basketball are completely worthless. Caupain is our starter and should be at this point As long as our shooters continue to make shots, his "vanilla" passing should suffice. But god help us when the shots aren't dropping (like last night) and we're playing a decent team. His poor shooting and defense were prime reasons why we ended up in a dogfight last night ( with help from Shaq, Farad, Ellis, KJ, etc), but to his credit, he got it together down the stretch, after Evans saved us, to seal the deal.