Southeastern Louisiana

[jacobkdoyle]

I think Mick said TC is leading the team in deflections.

 

[waterhead]

Again, basketball statistics are worthless. For example, Jenifer is shooting 55% from 3. If you look at the stat, it says he's a lights out shooter. However, he has banked in two threes, and he doesn't have very good form. But, if you're going with the stats as the be all and end all, Jenifer is blowing Caupain away as a shooter in every single stat. Now, I've got a superior passer and creator, who shoots lights out in addition, and we all know that Caupain is not that great defensively, so I can slant this argument way in Jenifer's favor, minus the turnover stat. We also know that a missed shot is actually a turnover in most cases, but doesn't get recorded as one, and with Caupain shooting sub .500 overall, and 28% from 3 and 66% from the free throw line, he is actually turning the ball over a lot without it getting recorded as one.

Anyway, this is why stats in basketball are completely worthless. Caupain is our starter and should be at this point As long as our shooters continue to make shots, his "vanilla" passing should suffice. But god help us when the shots aren't dropping (like last night) and we're playing a decent team. His poor shooting and defense were prime reasons why we ended up in a dogfight last night ( with help from Shaq, Farad, Ellis, KJ, etc), but to his credit, he got it together down the stretch, after Evans saved us, to seal the deal.

And I would not argue that Jenifer is scoring and shooting better than Troy this year...because he is. So I don't get it why you don't accept the reality that Troy has been far superior in assist to turnover SO FAR.

 

[ervins84]

Again, basketball statistics are worthless. For example, Jenifer is shooting 55% from 3. If you look at the stat, it says he's a lights out shooter. However, he has banked in two threes, and he doesn't have very good form. But, if you're going with the stats as the be all and end all, Jenifer is blowing Caupain away as a shooter in every single stat. Now, I've got a superior passer and creator, who shoots lights out in addition, and we all know that Caupain is not that great defensively, so I can slant this argument way in Jenifer's favor, minus the turnover stat. We also know that a missed shot is actually a turnover in most cases, but doesn't get recorded as one, and with Caupain shooting sub .500 overall, and 28% from 3 and 66% from the free throw line, he is actually turning the ball over a lot without it getting recorded as one.

Anyway, this is why stats in basketball are completely worthless. Caupain is our starter and should be at this point As long as our shooters continue to make shots, his "vanilla" passing should suffice. But god help us when the shots aren't dropping (like last night) and we're playing a decent team. His poor shooting and defense were prime reasons why we ended up in a dogfight last night ( with help from Shaq, Farad, Ellis, KJ, etc), but to his credit, he got it together down the stretch, after Evans saved us, to seal the deal.

I couldn't have written a better anti-stats straw man if I tried.

It's really pretty funny and intellectually disingenuous. The fact you don't acknowledge that makes engaging with you not really worthwhile. Good Day Sir.

 

[jacobkdoyle]

And I would not argue that Jenifer is scoring and shooting better than Troy this year...because he is. So I don't get it why you don't accept the reality that Troy has been far superior in assist to turnover SO FAR.

Couple in and out for Troy and couple banks for Jenifer. There's just no way anyone would say Jenifer is a better shooter, no matter what the stats say.

 

[L-T]

And I would not argue that Jenifer is scoring and shooting better than Troy this year...because he is. So I don't get it why you don't accept the reality that Troy has been far superior in assist to turnover SO FAR.

I'm not saying Jenifer is shooting better. His stats are saying that. I have been at every single game, including Bowling Green. I see how Jenifer shoots. It is not pretty. I cringe every time he launches one, but they bank in and bounce in, whatever. Plus, he may lead the team in air balls. But, the stats say he is a hell of a shooter and much better than Troy. It's BS, just like the turnover stats are BS. My only stance is that we are limited in how far we can go with a player like Caupain running the point. I like him a lot and look forward to the next two seasons with him being a vital part of the team. But, a player like Jenifer who excels at seeing the floor and delivering the pass when the opportunity is there, and who has the ability to make everyone around him better, is a rarity....especially in this program. He shouldn't be wasting away with 7 minutes of playing time, especially when the stats say he is one of our best shooters, on a night when we couldn't shoot....and oh by the way......he shot one time and made a three (banked in of course )!

 

[L-T]

I couldn't have written a better anti-stats straw man if I tried.

It's really pretty funny and intellectually disingenuous. The fact you don't acknowledge that makes engaging with you not really worthwhile. Good Day Sir.

Lol, sorry that I confused you with actual facts. I'll let you go engage with the others that you can understand. Good day back at ya!

 

[waterhead]

Couple in and out for Troy and couple banks for Jenifer. There's just no way anyone would say Jenifer is a better shooter, no matter what the stats say.

I didn't say he was a better shooter. I said he has shot better so far...meaning he has a higher % obviously. And nobody would argue that his % is not higher

 

[jacobkdoyle]

I didn't say he was a better shooter. I said he has shot better so far...meaning he has a higher % obviously. And nobody would argue that his % is not higher

He hasn't shot better so far though...use your eyes. I'm not a "stats don't matter" guy at all, but monitoring this stuff so closely through 5 games is pointless. My point is that no one would say Jenifer is a better shooter (that includes you). So you gotta be able to take a step back and look at the whole picture, instead of fixating on what a very small sample size spits out. That's all.

 

[Bearcat_NTS]

Again, basketball statistics are worthless. For example, Jenifer is shooting 55% from 3. If you look at the stat, it says he's a lights out shooter. However, he has banked in two threes, and he doesn't have very good form. But, if you're going with the stats as the be all and end all, Jenifer is blowing Caupain away as a shooter in every single stat. Now, I've got a superior passer and creator, who shoots lights out in addition, and we all know that Caupain is not that great defensively, so I can slant this argument way in Jenifer's favor, minus the turnover stat. We also know that a missed shot is actually a turnover in most cases, but doesn't get recorded as one, and with Caupain shooting sub .500 overall, and 28% from 3 and 66% from the free throw line, he is actually turning the ball over a lot without it getting recorded as one.

Anyway, this is why stats in basketball are completely worthless. Caupain is our starter and should be at this point As long as our shooters continue to make shots, his "vanilla" passing should suffice. But god help us when the shots aren't dropping (like last night) and we're playing a decent team. His poor shooting and defense were prime reasons why we ended up in a dogfight last night ( with help from Shaq, Farad, Ellis, KJ, etc), but to his credit, he got it together down the stretch, after Evans saved us, to seal the deal.

 

[waterhead]

He hasn't shot better so far though...use your eyes. I'm not a "stats don't matter" guy at all, but monitoring this stuff so closely through 5 games is pointless. My point is that no one would say Jenifer is a better shooter (that includes you). So you gotta be able to take a step back and look at the whole picture, instead of fixating on what a very small sample size spits out. That's all.

I said he has made a higher % of shots...if you want to continue suggesting I think he's a better shooter go ahead.

I do look at the big picture as well. I take into consideration things that Cronin and other insiders said about Jenifer early on. He was going to have to be more careful with his passes as he adjusts from HS speed. There were scouting reports saying similar things. Now I am looking at stats...they seem to suggest just maybe they were right. If you think I'm going to trust the "eye test" from fans over the coach I'm not.

I watched an early video with Cronin saying (paraphrasing) "Yah he looks really good...I'm glad I recruited him...the thing is 5 assists do you no good if you throw 6 more away so we have to watch that".

The "eye test" says he looks really good with the ball and lots of flashy exciting passes. Stats say the actual connection rate for success and misses is not as good as the "eye test". Which means he looks really good but he's also a little wreckless. Caupain may look boring but he's been super effective and Cronin has said "Trust me he's one of the best guards in the country...he gets the ball to the right spots".

Keep in mind this does not mean I don't think Jenifer will be brilliant or won't adjust...just that he has to improve in that cateogry

 

[jacobkdoyle]

I said he has made a higher % of shots...if you want to continue suggesting I think he's a better shooter go ahead.

I do look at the big picture as well. I take into consideration things that Cronin and other insiders said about Jenifer early on. He was going to have to be more careful with his passes as he adjusts from HS speed. There were scouting reports saying similar things. Now I am looking at stats...they seem to suggest just maybe they were right. If you think I'm going to trust the "eye test" from fans over the coach I'm not.

I watched an early video with Cronin saying (paraphrasing) "Yah he looks really good...I'm glad I recruited him...the thing is 5 assists do you no good if you throw 6 more away so we have to watch that".

The "eye test" says he looks really good with the ball and lots of flashy exciting passes. Stats say the actual connection rate for success and misses is not as good as the "eye test". Which means he looks really good but he's also a little wreckless. Caupain may look boring but he's been super effective and Cronin has said "Trust me he's one of the best guards in the country...he gets the ball to the right spots".

Keep in mind this does not mean I don't think Jenifer will be brilliant or won't adjust...just that he has to improve in that cateogry

Stop getting so defensive...I went out of my way to make it clear that you aren't saying that.

 

[TheLongHaul]

Lol, sorry that I confused you with actual facts. I'll let you go engage with the others that you can understand. Good day back at ya!

Ha ha, this is truly great. You say you are using actual facts while saying that basketball statistics (i.e., facts) are worthless. Well done sir!

Stop getting so defensive...I went out of my way to make it clear that you aren't saying that.

Looks like that is exactly what you were saying...just saying.

 

[waterhead]

He hasn't shot better so far though...use your eyes. I'm not a "stats don't matter" guy at all, but monitoring this stuff so closely through 5 games is pointless. My point is that no one would say Jenifer is a better shooter (that includes you). So you gotta be able to take a step back and look at the whole picture, instead of fixating on what a very small sample size spits out. That's all.

Sorry, I was getting mixed messages. This entire post (other than the part in parenthesis) suggests I am hyperfocused on stats and not using my eyes.

I'm not so sure why people think stats are pointless this early. I think we have all used them in some shape or form to tell a story about some aspect of the team or a player.

But when stats disagree with certain held opinions they become pointless and illusory. Sorry, I just have to LOL on that

 

[jacobkdoyle]

Ha ha, this is truly great. You say you are using actual facts while saying that basketball statistics (i.e., facts) are worthless. Well done sir!



Looks like that is exactly what you were saying...just saying.

"My point is that no one would say Jenifer is a better shooter (that includes you). "

 

[jacobkdoyle]

Sorry, I was getting mixed messages. This entire post (other than the part in parenthesis) suggests I am hyperfocused on stats and not using my eyes.

I'm not so sure why people think stats are pointless this early. I think we have all used them in some shape or form to tell a story about some aspect of the team or a player.

But when stats disagree with certain held opinions they become pointless and illusory. Sorry, I just have to LOL on that

Depends on what you're looking at. No one would put any stock in Jay Bruce having a higher BA than Votto through 10 games...But I do agree with what you're saying about the AST/TO. And we both agree on who should be in what role at PG, so I don't even know what we're arguing about. You say when stats disagree with certain held opinions...but we are all doing that exact thing on the shooting %s. 5 games isn't a lot, let's see how it all pans out. I think the only extra minutes Jenifer will get could be ones he may take from KJ. And he and Caupain could play together a little more. We'll see.

 

[L-T]

Ha ha, this is truly great. You say you are using actual facts while saying that basketball statistics (i.e., facts) are worthless. Well done sir!



Looks like that is exactly what you were saying...just saying.

I know it is a hard concept to grasp for many on here...including you apparently. In the future, I'll try to dumb-down how I make these points so more can benefit from the enlightenment.

 

[L-T]

"My point is that no one would say Jenifer is a better shooter (that includes you). "

Doesn't matter what anyone says. According to TheLongHaul, those stats "are" the facts, so I'm now saying he's a better shooter than Troy and everyone in here better agree at this point.

 

[Chad Brendel]

I know it is a hard concept to grasp for many on here...including you apparently. In the future, I'll try to dumb-down how I make these points so more can benefit from the enlightenment.

For those keeping score at home. Stats are not facts but L-Ts opinion, however, is a fact...

 

[L-T]

For those keeping score at home. Stats are not facts but L-Ts opinion, however, is a fact...

I said I would be dumbing it down in the future. You didn't wait for me to do that. Sorry for the confusion.

 

[waterhead]

Depends on what you're looking at. No one would put any stock in Jay Bruce having a higher BA than Votto through 10 games...But I do agree with what you're saying about the AST/TO. And we both agree on who should be in what role at PG, so I don't even know what we're arguing about. You say when stats disagree with certain held opinions...but we are all doing that exact thing on the shooting %s. 5 games isn't a lot, let's see how it all pans out. I think the only extra minutes Jenifer will get could be ones he may take from KJ. And he and Caupain could play together a little more. We'll see.

Who is we? The only thing I have said about it is that Jenifer has made a higher % of his shots this year. I am not using that stat to prop up anything. I don't suggest he has better form or will end up the year with a better %...JUST that so far this year he has made a higher % of shots and that Troy will need to get his % up (which I fully expect he will).

I have also suggested that Jenifer should get better at assist to TO (after usually drowning him in other compliments) so I don't know what the big objection to that is but some people took issue with it. All I heard was excuses about dropped passes and "he'll be fine". He might be fine...I just want his assist to turnover ratio to get better. ???