Tulsa Game Thread

[skyblade]

I dont think its mental. Hes just not good. Hes a 6 year career 28% shooter from 3. Im not yelling for Harvey to play more, Im yelling for Mcneal to play less. However that works. If that means play MAW in foul trouble or play Dou at the 1. I dont care, but Mcneal cant be on the floor for any extended periods.

I've said McNeal doesn't belong on the floor. But unfortunately Davenport belongs on the floor less and Harvey belongs on the floor even less. Brannen needs to play someone.

I think Davenport could start to win the minutes later in the season (he can at least hit a three). But right now in games where we need a sub who can handle the ball, there are no bench options besides McNeal. In games where Brannen wants a guy off the bench who can provide good defense, there are no bench options at guard besides McNeal.

 

[cincyguy13]

Diarra has been an excellent defender and rebounder all season. He was terrible on the offensive end, but I felt he could figure it out relatively quickly. He's a third year player and was much more likely to make the jump in understanding (which he has). Not only that, but his combination of size/athleticism allows him to recover from mistakes.

Harvey is a good athlete, but not close to Diarra's level. He lacks in all three phases of the game (offense, defense, rebounding). You can play a guy who lacks in one phase (such as Diarra, McNeal, Jaevin and Vogt at times), but you can't play a guy who lacks in a all three. Harvey will get there eventually, but I see no reason to think it will be this season.

Diarra was every bit as bad at the beginning of the year. You just didn’t see it. He was one of the worst players on the team. The fact that you don’t think an 18 year can improve But you had all the faith in the world in diarra is strange but not surprising.

 

[waterhead]

28% is bad, but he's not an 11% 3 point shooter which is what he is this year.



obviously nobody wants a 28% 3 point shooter hoisting up 3's either, which is also why nobody should ever want Scott to take a 2 point jumper (Mcneal shooting 28% has a higher expected value than Scott shooting a 2 point jumper, think about that).

This is my main point too. He has never been this bad...but we have had plenty of players shooting 28% or in that range for a year and they never stopped shooting. 28% would be a major deal with McNeal...suddenly he can take the last second shot clock 3 ball if open. He can't do that at 11%.

Dion Dixon shot 26% on 5 threes a game his senior year and was a career 29%. There are others who shot around or below 30% with a shorter 3 line

 

[cincrulz11]

Dion Dixon shot 26% on 5 threes a game his senior year and was a career 29%. There are others who shot around or below 30% with a shorter 3 line

and those guys shouldn't have been allowed to shoot. at least back then we loaded up 2 bigs on the block so we could get offensive boards.

 

[cincyguy13]

This is my main point too. He has never been this bad...but we have had plenty of players shooting 28% or in that range for a year and they never stopped shooting. 28% would be a major deal with McNeal...suddenly he can take the last second shot clock 3 ball if open. He can't do that at 11%.

Dion Dixon shot 26% on 5 threes a game his senior year and was a career 29%. There are others who shot around or below 30% with a shorter 3 line

McNeal isn’t even hitting the rim. The other teams know that and makes it very hard to play offense when they don’t have to guard him.

 

[waterhead]

McNeal isn’t even hitting the rim. The other teams know that and makes it very hard to play offense when they don’t have to guard him.

Hitting the rim would be a good start...lol

 

[cincrulz11]

Hitting the rim would be a good start...lol

every time he launches one i think this has to be the one that falls. and then it just never does.

 

[waterhead]

and those guys shouldn't have been allowed to shoot. at least back then we loaded up 2 bigs on the block so we could get offensive boards.

30% from three is right there with 45% from 2. To your other point about Scott. In the paint and short range you take it all day long...but if you are about to shoot a mid range jumper...I would take a 30% 3 pt guy every time

 

[skyblade]

Diarra was every bit as bad at the beginning of the year. You just didn’t see it. He was one of the worst players on the team. The fact that you don’t think an 18 year can improve But you had all the faith in the world in diarra is strange but not surprising.

Or perhaps I am just better at evaluating players. I was correct on Diarra. Diarra was one of the best defenders and rebounders on the team at the beginning of the year. He only had to figure it out on offense.

I think Harvey can improve, I just don't think it will happen this season (or at least not enough for him to deserve minutes). We are at mid-season and he still can't do anything right, the chances that he will figure out everything by March are slim-to-none. I think his injury last January that caused him to miss all of spring ball (and some of our summer practices) set him back a lot.

 

[itsamemario]

Or perhaps I am just better at evaluating players. I was correct on Diarra. Diarra was one of the best defenders and rebounders on the team at the beginning of the year. He only had to figure it out on offense.

I think Harvey can improve, I just don't think it will happen this season (or at least not enough for him to deserve minutes). We are at mid-season and he still can't do anything right, the chances that he will figure out everything by March are slim-to-none. I think his injury last January that caused him to miss all of spring ball (and some of our summer practices) set him back a lot.

oh god. dont be that guy

 

[cincrulz11]

Or perhaps I am just better at evaluating players.

Says the guy that non stop bashes Vogt.

 

[cincrulz11]

30% from three is right there with 45% from 2. To your other point about Scott. In the paint and short range you take it all day long...but if you are about to shoot a mid range jumper...I would take a 30% 3 pt guy every time

we're shooting 52.7 % as a team from 2 this year. maybe in our old offense 30% from 3 was ok, but we can do much better than a .9 point per shot shot these days.


when we actually get a shot up and dont turn it over we're pretty efficient, we can do better than those low percentage shots.

 

[cincyalum2014]

Or perhaps I am just better at evaluating players. I was correct on Diarra. Diarra was one of the best defenders and rebounders on the team at the beginning of the year. He only had to figure it out on offense.

I think Harvey can improve, I just don't think it will happen this season (or at least not enough for him to deserve minutes). We are at mid-season and he still can't do anything right, the chances that he will figure out everything by March are slim-to-none. I think his injury last January that caused him to miss all of spring ball (and some of our summer practices) set him back a lot.

I thank god everyday we have you on this online forum to shed some of your expert evaluations with us that are far less qualified at evaluating 18-22 year old basketball players. I also wanted to thank you for taking time out of your day to explain to us your high level evaluations that are far superior to other people who write on the forum because I mean your qualifications of evaluating players speaks for itself. Brannen would be lucky to have you on his staff giving him top notch insight on the evaluation of his players.

 

[waterhead]

we're shooting 52.7 % as a team from 2 this year. maybe in our old offense 30% from 3 was ok, but we can do much better than a .9 point per shot shot these days.


when we actually get a shot up and dont turn it over we're pretty efficient, we can do better than those low percentage shots.

We are crushing it on shots at the rim and probably even short range. Vogt and Sorolla and even Scott have been good to great. I am specifically talking about mid range here. Of course nobody likes the mid range jumper...but I would take the 30% three over that.

 

[waterhead]

Or perhaps I am just better at evaluating players. I was correct on Diarra. Diarra was one of the best defenders and rebounders on the team at the beginning of the year. He only had to figure it out on offense.

I think Harvey can improve, I just don't think it will happen this season (or at least not enough for him to deserve minutes). We are at mid-season and he still can't do anything right, the chances that he will figure out everything by March are slim-to-none. I think his injury last January that caused him to miss all of spring ball (and some of our summer practices) set him back a lot.

Whether or not Diarra was better at certain things like defending the perimeter was never in question (to most anyone). But he was lost on offense per Brannen until recently didn't even know the plays. That speaks to me as a player that is not high BB IQ which means he will still have issues (after learning the plays) in a fast paced environment to make good decisions on the court. Knowing the offense is only half the requirement. He's coming along but he's still a 10 minute guy. He needs the game slowed down for him and games are not always like that...if ever. So he can provide us with good minutes right now...but we can see players with higher BB IQ's who still struggle to make the quick decisions Brannen asks for. Diara would be low on that list of decision makers right now.

Brannen told Diara he could not play him until he learned the offense...and now that he has a better handle on it...can play more. But knowing the offense was the minimum requirement...he has to make the right decisions within the game. Jarron is #1 at that. Diara is still trying to figure it out.

 

[justinhub2003]

This is a stupid fight.

No one cares if you were or wrong on the Diarra thing.

Let’s just play why helps us win on a game by game basis and go from there.


But the bright side is Vogt and Diarra can play together .

Vogt is an offensive beast tho.

 

[cincyguy13]

Or perhaps I am just better at evaluating players. I was correct on Diarra. Diarra was one of the best defenders and rebounders on the team at the beginning of the year. He only had to figure it out on offense.

I think Harvey can improve, I just don't think it will happen this season (or at least not enough for him to deserve minutes). We are at mid-season and he still can't do anything right, the chances that he will figure out everything by March are slim-to-none. I think his injury last January that caused him to miss all of spring ball (and some of our summer practices) set him back a lot.

You should evaluate players for a living. Teams would be dying for your basketball knowledge.

 

[Jon Rycek]

You should evaluate players for a living. Teams would be dying for your basketball knowledge.

Yeah he could pick the most consistent player on every team and find a way that’s its their fault when anything goes wrong