Tulsa

[cincyguy13]

No I get what your trying to say but the thing is I just dont agree. Hardnett and ellie are D1 players in this program and under the culture that used to exist. I remember watching both and could understand why Cronin brought them in. Ellie is D1 rebounder and very versatile in guarding the pick and roll something Vogt and rap could never do. Harndett was very skilled for his size a lot of ability/potential but that's what college is for to harness those skills and develop, recruiting rankings are overrated. There are also roles within a team concept everyone doesn't have to shoot or score. This is an era of small ball and monkey see monkey do trend basketball without defined roles or positions which has really robbed the game of its nuances. I never believed in this hack up 30 threes philosophy bc when the shots dont drop or you dont have enough talent like both in our case you lose esp when the defense isn't existant. John Brannen inherited a top 15 team he really did, he didn't keep them together and he hasn't recruited up to snuff. None of it is surprising

Those guys work for cronin because he doesn’t ask them to think or do anything. If we have guys that were brought just to play in one system, for one coach, and that coach leaves, obviously their value goes down dramatically.
It was never a top 15 team, when over half your roster goes to play at the mid major level, nothing about it is top 15

 

[cincyguy13]

Sounds like some of you guys just want a coach that coaches exactly like cronin, never change, just continue the same exact ways

 

[JoeRunner89]

Those guys work for cronin because he doesn’t ask them to think or do anything. If we have guys that were brought just to play in one system, for one coach, and that coach leaves, obviously their value goes down dramatically.
It was never a top 15 team, when over half your roster goes to play at the mid major level, nothing about it is top 15

Well you shouldn't underestimate what culture, and continuity can provide or create. If kept together theres no doubt in my mind the Bearcats lose at the most 6games last yr with a Brooks, ellie, and hardnett just in the post area. Throw in a Logan Johnson to replace a Mcneal the team is in a better position those guys under the program and trusting the process would have improved esp in the AAC. Some of micks Recuits during the historic BigEast era were overwhelmed but it was never this bad.. and this is not an attempt to vaunt Cronin as some misiah just saying as of right now this isn't it this isn't Bearcat Basketball

 

[cincyguy13]

Well you shouldn't underestimate what culture, and continuity can provide or create. If kept together theres no doubt in my mind the Bearcats lose at the most 6games last yr with a Brooks, ellie, and hardnett just in the post area. Throw in a Logan Johnson to replace a Mcneal the team is in a better position those guys under the program and trusting the process would have improved esp in the AAC. Some of micks Recuits during the historic BigEast era were overwhelmed but it was never this bad.. and this is not an attempt to vaunt Cronin as some misiah just saying as of right now this isn't it this isn't Bearcat Basketball

So you’re saying last years team would have done better with the coach that recruited them, and the system they were recruited for. That’s an interesting thought. Never thought of that

 

[cincyguy13]

Well you shouldn't underestimate what culture, and continuity can provide or create. If kept together theres no doubt in my mind the Bearcats lose at the most 6games last yr with a Brooks, ellie, and hardnett just in the post area. Throw in a Logan Johnson to replace a Mcneal the team is in a better position those guys under the program and trusting the process would have improved esp in the AAC. Some of micks Recuits during the historic BigEast era were overwhelmed but it was never this bad.. and this is not an attempt to vaunt Cronin as some misiah just saying as of right now this isn't it this isn't Bearcat Basketball

Also, last year, the team would have ended up with the same result if they went undefeated

 

[JoeRunner89]

So you’re saying last years team would have done better with the coach that recruited them, and the system they were recruited for. That’s an interesting thought. Never thought of that

I'm saying those guys would of played and performed for a coach that could see the talent/potential in them and rightfully so. For another guy to come along and not see it is pretty sad. The only way its wise to let a guy walk or have them removed is when you have another body that will replace them and that is something Brannen hasn't provided

 

[sedziobs]

Sounds like some of you guys just want a coach that coaches exactly like cronin, never change, just continue the same exact ways

Yeah, I'm not really understanding why we are still hung up on Cronin and the players that left. It can be fun to reminisce, but it's irrelevant to our current situation. Brannen and our current players aren't getting the job done, so something will have to change. They know that. No one likes losing.

Some things I expect to improve regardless of coaching. DeJulius probably won't finish the year under 20% from three with the most attempts on the team. Eason and Saunders will probably improve their TO rate, foul rate, and 2pt% as they get more experience, as most freshmen do.

Our seniors need to play smarter. Vogt and Williams have career worst (minus frosh) FT% and foul rates, which points to a lack of focus. Brannen may be part of that, but as seniors they should have the leadership skills to address that on their own. The younger players are affected by that.

It's on Brannen to figure out a winning formula. Not many people expected a great season from us, but this is bad. These are his players now, doesn't matter who recruited them. They all have areas where they can contribute. This isn't pro sports where fans will accept a few years of rebuild knowing down years will produce draft picks. Implementing culture or style takes time, but we can't just act like winning doesn't matter. That's how a program disappears. I don't want our program to take the path of UNLV, Charlotte, or DePaul.

 

[Bcatfollower]

Come on man, you couldn't possibly say Cronin had mid major talent in here dominating the AAC and blowing out John Brannens NKU the year the clashed.. if the talent was so mid major the results would look a lot like this yr

He didn’t dominate the aac. Not sure where you’re getting that info. How many league and tournament championships did he win?

 

[cincyguy13]

I'm saying those guys would of played and performed for a coach that could see the talent/potential in them and rightfully so. For another guy to come along and not see it is pretty sad. The only way its wise to let a guy walk or have them removed is when you have another body that will replace them and that is something Brannen hasn't provided

Well no other coach at a major school wanted them eithe, so I guess they are all wrong

 

[JoeRunner89]

Yeah, I'm not really understanding why we are still hung up on Cronin and the players that left. It can be fun to reminisce, but it's irrelevant to our current situation. Brannen and our current players aren't getting the job done, so something will have to change. They know that. No one likes losing.

Some things I expect to improve regardless of coaching. DeJulius probably won't finish the year under 20% from three with the most attempts on the team. Eason and Saunders will probably improve their TO rate, foul rate, and 2pt% as they get more experience, as most freshmen do.

Our seniors need to play smarter. Vogt and Williams have career worst (minus frosh) FT% and foul rates, which points to a lack of focus. Brannen may be part of that, but as seniors they should have the leadership skills to address that on their own. The younger players are affected by that.

It's on Brannen to figure out a winning formula. Not many people expected a great season from us, but this is bad. These are his players now, doesn't matter who recruited them. They all have areas where they can contribute. This isn't pro sports where fans will accept a few years of rebuild knowing down years will produce draft picks. Implementing culture or style takes time, but we can't just act like winning doesn't matter. That's how a program disappears. I don't want our program to take the path of UNLV, Charlotte, or DePaul.

Well, in all fairness apparently you cant question or speak honestly on Brannen without someone coming along and bringing up Cronin. Being that the current coach was supposed to raise the bar I guess it's an easy comparison to be made... Reality is Cronin is just a better coach at this point of both thier careers and its obvious. It's so obvious that Brannens level will more than likely never reach Cronins level.. so what are we waiting for we have to sit back and pretend as if this yrs team is getting any better, shoot.. we are going to be waiting a long time. Mike Bone Head really did a number on us

 

[JoeRunner89]

He didn’t dominate the aac. Not sure where you’re getting that info. How many league and tournament championships did he win?

Look at the wins/lost record in conference since 13/14

 

[cincyguy13]

Yeah, I'm not really understanding why we are still hung up on Cronin and the players that left. It can be fun to reminisce, but it's irrelevant to our current situation. Brannen and our current players aren't getting the job done, so something will have to change. They know that. No one likes losing.

Some things I expect to improve regardless of coaching. DeJulius probably won't finish the year under 20% from three with the most attempts on the team. Eason and Saunders will probably improve their TO rate, foul rate, and 2pt% as they get more experience, as most freshmen do.

Our seniors need to play smarter. Vogt and Williams have career worst (minus frosh) FT% and foul rates, which points to a lack of focus. Brannen may be part of that, but as seniors they should have the leadership skills to address that on their own. The younger players are affected by that.

It's on Brannen to figure out a winning formula. Not many people expected a great season from us, but this is bad. These are his players now, doesn't matter who recruited them. They all have areas where they can contribute. This isn't pro sports where fans will accept a few years of rebuild knowing down years will produce draft picks. Implementing culture or style takes time, but we can't just act like winning doesn't matter. That's how a program disappears. I don't want our program to take the path of UNLV, Charlotte, or DePaul.

It started because some were talking about how the roster was loaded when brannen arrived and how brannen is the reason the cronin guys aren’t reaching their potential. Also, Justin asked if the what the team record would be with cronin

 

[cincyguy13]

Yeah, I'm not really understanding why we are still hung up on Cronin and the players that left. It can be fun to reminisce, but it's irrelevant to our current situation. Brannen and our current players aren't getting the job done, so something will have to change. They know that. No one likes losing.

Some things I expect to improve regardless of coaching. DeJulius probably won't finish the year under 20% from three with the most attempts on the team. Eason and Saunders will probably improve their TO rate, foul rate, and 2pt% as they get more experience, as most freshmen do.

Our seniors need to play smarter. Vogt and Williams have career worst (minus frosh) FT% and foul rates, which points to a lack of focus. Brannen may be part of that, but as seniors they should have the leadership skills to address that on their own. The younger players are affected by that.

It's on Brannen to figure out a winning formula. Not many people expected a great season from us, but this is bad. These are his players now, doesn't matter who recruited them. They all have areas where they can contribute. This isn't pro sports where fans will accept a few years of rebuild knowing down years will produce draft picks. Implementing culture or style takes time, but we can't just act like winning doesn't matter. That's how a program disappears. I don't want our program to take the path of UNLV, Charlotte, or DePaul.

Agree with all this. The guy has to win games. I would give him 1 year to be a complete train wreck but he would go into next year on the hot seat. I just don’t blame him for every single thing. The shooting like you mentioned, these guys are getting good looks and I’m not asking them to make everything, but can they make 30%. That’s not a lot to ask. The team is very young and the seniors they have aren’t great. That’s never going to go well.
If we don’t win over 5 games and the players start leaving after this year, I would understand letting him go.

 

[TheLongHaul]

NET rankings released.

Uc coming in at 142

That’s worse then:
Houston
SMU
WSU
Tulsa
UCF
Memphis
ECU
USF


We are 10 spots better then temple and like 50 better then Tulane.

Who’d have ever thunk that beating UC on its home wouldn’t even be a Tier 2 win.

i know there are a shit ton of comments after this one that I haven't even gotten to yet, but I just couldn't keep ignoring it. [snipped]

There is no freaking home court advantage this year. Nada, none, zilch...okay, maybe you can argue that having to travel provides a .01% disadvantage but I don't even think that's the case. The 150 fans in a 12,000 plus arena does not provide a home court advantage, so please for the love of god stop using home/away in any sort of argument or state. It's useless this year. And yes i realize that some stat sites may be using home/away in their rankings but they shouldn't and if they do it should tell you something.

 

[waterhead]

Yeah, I'm not really understanding why we are still hung up on Cronin and the players that left. It can be fun to reminisce, but it's irrelevant to our current situation. Brannen and our current players aren't getting the job done, so something will have to change. They know that. No one likes losing.

Some things I expect to improve regardless of coaching. DeJulius probably won't finish the year under 20% from three with the most attempts on the team. Eason and Saunders will probably improve their TO rate, foul rate, and 2pt% as they get more experience, as most freshmen do.

Our seniors need to play smarter. Vogt and Williams have career worst (minus frosh) FT% and foul rates, which points to a lack of focus. Brannen may be part of that, but as seniors they should have the leadership skills to address that on their own. The younger players are affected by that.

It's on Brannen to figure out a winning formula. Not many people expected a great season from us, but this is bad. These are his players now, doesn't matter who recruited them. They all have areas where they can contribute. This isn't pro sports where fans will accept a few years of rebuild knowing down years will produce draft picks. Implementing culture or style takes time, but we can't just act like winning doesn't matter. That's how a program disappears. I don't want our program to take the path of UNLV, Charlotte, or DePaul.

I think at this point in time you have to reward effort and energy. Davenport is giving that in every game and he is also scoring the ball. He's knocking down 3's and he's also looking better at scoring in the paint than Eason right now. I am finding 30 minutes for that guy right now!!

We came out SOOOOO flat in that last game. Criminal! Brannen needs to challenge these guys right now and say "who is all in?"...we are going to find out because we are playing the guys who are showing that. I don't care who you are...you better be running out there and defending on every play and getting in the huddles and adding some benefit. I don't care if you make your shots...just show me you give a shyt.

Most of these players are on similar levels. Keith seems to be a cut above but he should not be given a free pass. So if Mike Saunders cares more than someone else (whoever) but he happens to throw 3 turnovers I don't care right now. I want to see some energy out there.

 

[skyblade]

One of the notes from the most recent radio show I found interesting is that Brannen singled out two guys as having lost weight/muscle during quarantine and needing to work out at home.

One of those guys was Mike Saunders, the other was Chris Vogt. It's excusable from a freshman, but not from a senior. Watch Vogt on the sideline, when he is out he sits in the back row of seats and looks dejected. Between him and Keith, our seniors are horrible examples of working/playing hard for the younger players.

I agree with playing guys who bring effort and energy, even if they make more mistakes. It's one of the reasons I prefer Diarra over Vogt.

I watched the UCLA - Colorado game on Saturday after ours. One thing that I enjoyed was watching Tyger Campbell - a 5'11" guard - boxing out guys who had 10 inches and 100lbs on him. He didn't always succeed, but he sure as hell tried.

One of the announcers quoted Cronin on another of their guys (Bernard), essentially Cronin said, Bernard brings the most defense, energy and effort every day (and to practice), he's going to play, I don't care if he's not that good on offense.

Brannen needs to get the same level of effort and energy out of guys. Do whatever it takes, that needs to be the number one priority. If it means sitting Keith, Vogt or any other guy and putting in somebody who makes more mistakes but plays with more intensity I'm all for it. If it means Davenport plays 40 minutes (or however many his body can take), go for it - at this point he's the only one who seems to care - though I think Diarra will join that list once learns to stay on the court.

Like I've said in the past, I had far lower expectations for this season than many, what I find unacceptable in not losing (I expected that), it's the fact that we don't play with intensity and get pushed around.

 

[sedziobs]

I wouldn't necessarily say intensity or energy need to be the top priority for players. Cronin isn't our coach anymore, so the things he valued won't necessarily be the areas of emphasis. Lots of teams win with a more relaxed style where positioning, anticipation, and timing are more important.

I remember one of the most intense teams I've ever seen, West Virginia in 2016, getting surgically sliced apart by a very calm and composed 14 seed Stephen F Austin. Thomas Walkup, a slow unathletic 6'4" wing, methodically navigated pressure and found open looks that resulted in 33 points. SFA held WVU to 56 points with no starter over 6'5".

Tyger Campbell might not be making the smart play when he boxes out a 6'10" guy. Maybe he should be leaking out so Colorado is wary of outlet passes and can't crash the glass as hard. He's doing what Cronin values. There are other values that can result in winning basketball.

I don't really care what the identity is right now, I just want our guys to be focused when they are on the court.

 

[justinhub2003]

i know there are a shit ton of comments after this one that I haven't even gotten to yet, but I just couldn't keep ignoring it. [snipped]

There is no freaking home court advantage this year. Nada, none, zilch...okay, maybe you can argue that having to travel provides a .01% disadvantage but I don't even think that's the case. The 150 fans in a 12,000 plus arena does not provide a home court advantage, so please for the love of god stop using home/away in any sort of argument or state. It's useless this year. And yes i realize that some stat sites may be using home/away in their rankings but they shouldn't and if they do it should tell you something.

I have no idea what you said.

But when I mentioned home court, Im speaking from a technical term. The committee says beating a team on its home floor is worth more and counts as Tier 2 win all the way up to 135 I believe and UC not being a Tier 2 win for its opponent its about the craziest thing I've ever seen.


We are closer to ECU and Tulane than we are to Houston. That aint good no matter how you slice it.

 

[justinhub2003]

I wouldn't necessarily say intensity or energy need to be the top priority for players. Cronin isn't our coach anymore, so the things he valued won't necessarily be the areas of emphasis. Lots of teams win with a more relaxed style where positioning, anticipation, and timing are more important.

I remember one of the most intense teams I've ever seen, West Virginia in 2016, getting surgically sliced apart by a very calm and composed 14 seed Stephen F Austin. Thomas Walkup, a slow unathletic 6'4" wing, methodically navigated pressure and found open looks that resulted in 33 points. SFA held WVU to 56 points with no starter over 6'5".

Tyger Campbell might not be making the smart play when he boxes out a 6'10" guy. Maybe he should be leaking out so Colorado is wary of outlet passes and can't crash the glass as hard. He's doing what Cronin values. There are other values that can result in winning basketball.

I don't really care what the identity is right now, I just want our guys to be focused when they are on the court.

UCLA has the 11th best offense in the country. What ever Mick is doing over there, he should probably keep doing.

They just beat top 25 Colorado without their best NBA prospect who is now done for the season.


Recruiting to the AAC is absolutely brutal. And John Brannen is starting to realize that. His first failure in recruiting was recruiting a good recruiter to come to UC.. He said na, Ill stay in the SEC and at Alabama. And now we have a full on Mid Major staff, like his number one guy is not a young cat, he is a career long mid major coach.

But people on this very board used to hammer Mick's recruiting. They said Mick couldn't recruit and I always said that recruiting to this busted ass misfit league is always going to be a challenge. John Brannen is getting a lot of No's now. and now that we suck and look pitiful, its going to be harder to get those recruits.

But man, what mick is doing in year 2 with players who are just average by UCLA standards, is pretty remarkable. The dude now has a top 11 offense and yet doesn't have a 5 star on the team which is not normal for UCLA.



My question is: Why are bama, ucla & Arkansas better than us and seemingly on a better projected path than us??? All 3 of those schools were in worse shape than UC when they all took over.

Why are those schools picking up faster than UC?

 

[cincyguy13]

I wouldn't necessarily say intensity or energy need to be the top priority for players. Cronin isn't our coach anymore, so the things he valued won't necessarily be the areas of emphasis. Lots of teams win with a more relaxed style where positioning, anticipation, and timing are more important.

I remember one of the most intense teams I've ever seen, West Virginia in 2016, getting surgically sliced apart by a very calm and composed 14 seed Stephen F Austin. Thomas Walkup, a slow unathletic 6'4" wing, methodically navigated pressure and found open looks that resulted in 33 points. SFA held WVU to 56 points with no starter over 6'5".

Tyger Campbell might not be making the smart play when he boxes out a 6'10" guy. Maybe he should be leaking out so Colorado is wary of outlet passes and can't crash the glass as hard. He's doing what Cronin values. There are other values that can result in winning basketball.

I don't really care what the identity is right now, I just want our guys to be focused when they are on the court.

This is what I’ve been saying for two years. You don’t have to play cronin ball to win. You don’t have to win on toughness. Be good at basketball. There are other ways.