UC vs. Georgetown

[nparker1]

Mick has coached over 200 games here, so it's not anything special to find an occasional last second play that went well. It's all about what have you done lately and this year his play calling on inbounds and offensive sets was atrocious. If you're blaming the play-calling failures this year on the players, then who's to say that the successes he had in the past weren't because of great plays by the players who bailed him out of his poor play calling. Both arguments are just stupid. It's all about the "eye test" and Mick isn't shining in my "eye-test". Sorry. He's evidently passing with flying colors in your "eye test". I just think many of you might need a pair of glasses. I have 20-20 vision.

Well L-T, or based upon your last sentence, Lens-Trafter, since you know everything and can see everything, better than everyone else, i want to know how is a better coach that is available right now...you said "Who was Chris Mack before Xavier got him...or Pete Gillan...or Buzz Williams...or Brad Stevens...or Chaka Smart or Tom Crean, or Jamie Dixon, or Skip Prosser, or Jim Valvano, etc., etc.."...did you ever think that there are schools out there saying the same thing regarding Cronin?...and if you respect Chris Mack so much, i question your vision...Mack is classless, and lost all control of his team last year, and couldnt win this year, in the A10...

i am done with this topic...i have two things more to say based upon your vision comment:
1) i really hope you are putting your vision to use as you are sitting in your season tickets at UC...bitch, whine, complain all you want, as long as you are supporting the university through tickets...i do my share of bitching, whining, and complaining from my seats...
2) and if your vision is so good, why did it take you until this month to find this forum?...we have had recruits and fans of opposing teams find the site before you...where have you been?...i would be curious to hear your thoughts during last year's sweet 16 run...

Go Bearcats!

 

[bearcat jeff]

I've moved on from Huggins, believe me. Moving on from Huggins doesn't mean that you can't look back at what those teams did and appreciate them. The people always talking about moving on from Huggins are the same people who consistently bring him up. If you look at my posts I made mention of our teams from back then and their success, not about Huggins vs. Mick.

You can't look back at one without the other. Just like you can't look at the present and not insert Mick into it. My point isn't coach vs. coach, it's the inflation of the bar that the current team is expected to hit. If you want to set the bar at winning in the regular season only while playing in a far weaker conference top to bottom so be it (please don't use rpi etc to support an argument here...Middle Tenn St is 28th in rpi this season). To call a program elite it has to compete consistently for a national title and 1 final 4 in 16 years is not elite. Winning 26 games 2 years in a row and 22 this season and hopefully counting, while playing in the BEast to me is more than comparable to what was being done in CUSA. I believe the Bearcats with Martin healthy could have played in any league and won. Again, I'm not taking away from those teams. Don't set a bar for this coach and this team that never existed just because you like the players and style better in the past.

 

[aronius]

How many 1, 2 and 3 seeds do we have under Cronin? We're not even close to those years? National TV was dictating many great Non-Conference games for us in those days because we were a powerhouse. Cronin gets his 25 wins by playing his plethora of cupcakes every year, which is why the city has never embraced him and he can't sell out games. He has no credibility. Nobody appreciates a coach who doesn't have the balls to compete against the best. Again, how many big conferences are knocking down our doors to invite us in now? The decline of our basketball program is a big part of that.

You have now reached troll status. Cronin has credibility for the following reasons; he rebuilt the program, he wins, graduates players, keeps them off the police blotter, and he made a sweet 16 last year. If you don't respect that then you have problems.

I won't even waste my time replying to any other point you attempt to make as you are far past the point of reasoning.

 

[bearcat jeff]

How many 1, 2 and 3 seeds do we have under Cronin? We're not even close to those years? National TV was dictating many great Non-Conference games for us in those days because we were a powerhouse. Cronin gets his 25 wins by playing his plethora of cupcakes every year, which is why the city has never embraced him and he can't sell out games. He has no credibility. Nobody appreciates a coach who doesn't have the balls to compete against the best. Again, how many big conferences are knocking down our doors to invite us in now? The decline of our basketball program is a big part of that.

Again, what did those 1,2,3 seeds gain you? from 97-2005 1 sweet 16 and you talk about credibility?
All I'm asking is for people to be realistic here, not to be unappreciative of the history of UC basketball.

 

[WAITE HOYT 2]

interesting tidbit:

Did we make it and not have a top 25 class?


11 of ESPN's Top 25 recruiting classes from 2012 did not make the NCAA Tournament

Read more: http://www.espn1530.com/pages/lancesBlog.html#ixzz2NzVKqamX

 

[WAITE HOYT 2]

You have now reached troll status. Cronin has credibility for the following reasons; he rebuilt the program, he wins, graduates players, keeps them off the police blotter, and he made a sweet 16 last year. If you don't respect that then you have problems.

I won't even waste my time replying to any other point you attempt to make as you are far past the point of reasoning.

Exactly!!!!!!

 

[L-T]

Well L-T, or based upon your last sentence, Lens-Trafter, since you know everything and can see everything, better than everyone else, i want to know how is a better coach that is available right now...you said "Who was Chris Mack before Xavier got him...or Pete Gillan...or Buzz Williams...or Brad Stevens...or Chaka Smart or Tom Crean, or Jamie Dixon, or Skip Prosser, or Jim Valvano, etc., etc.."...did you ever think that there are schools out there saying the same thing regarding Cronin?...and if you respect Chris Mack so much, i question your vision...Mack is classless, and lost all control of his team last year, and couldnt win this year, in the A10...

i am done with this topic...i have two things more to say based upon your vision comment:
1) i really hope you are putting your vision to use as you are sitting in your season tickets at UC...bitch, whine, complain all you want, as long as you are supporting the university through tickets...i do my share of bitching, whining, and complaining from my seats...
2) and if your vision is so good, why did it take you until this month to find this forum?...we have had recruits and fans of opposing teams find the site before you...where have you been?...i would be curious to hear your thoughts during last year's sweet 16 run...

Go Bearcats!

My thoughts during last years run were that it was awesome. I was excited as hell and totally supportive of Mick. This year turned me in the other direction.

As to your season ticket comment, I doubt that there is anyone on this forum that has been a season ticket holder longer than me. I'll leave it at that. I was at the Armory Fieldhouse, Riverfront Coliseum, Cincinnati Gardens, what then was Shoemaker Center, and what now is Fifth Third Arena. I have traveled to nearly every NCAA appearance we've made, so I'm a superfan...just not a great Mick Cronin fan. I've missed very few Bearcat games in my life.

Why have I not been posting? This thread is a great example. The forums today are dominated by Mick Cronin zealots who are happy with mediocrity and most of the other people who are not Mick lovers don't even bother posting anymore because it's just non-stop arguing over stupid stuff.

Listen, we're all happy that we're in the tournament and if Mick gets us to the Sweet 16 we'll be excited. But, outside of Lawrence, recruiting has been disappointing. Offense has been atrocious. Big man development and any resemblence of an inside game is non-exsistant. Even recruiting what was supposed to be a dominating big man...Yancy Gates...evolved into 4 years of frustration watching him underperform, not hustling, etc. We can't throw the ball inbounds. I heard Pitino talking on his radio show saying they practiced one day on our inbounds plays and then forced us into either a turnover, or a timeout on every one of them. One practice...and he can shut us down.

Bottom line, I'm happy with three straight NCAAs. I'm less happy with the cracks in the foundation that we have. If Mick can patch the cracks, then he's my man. Today, I'm skeptical.

 

[WAITE HOYT 2]

"The whole world revolves around money. It's ONLY a question of money."
I was told that when I was a young co-op at UC by a crusty old gambler I worked with for the City Engineering Dept.
It is oh so true, Anbuc. You hit the nail on the head.

Capt, i gave up trying to reason with L_T when he said the reason we din't get in to the ACC was becasue of our basketball team. Guy has no clue.

 

[UCBearcats]

The game has evolved so that March is all that matters. Why do you think a mid major can win 25 plus games, dominate their conference and lose in a conf tournament and then go to the NIT? It's about March. Memphis is the best comparison to UC imo. Nice program who will get you a lot of regular season wins, had a very good run under a future hall of fame coach, and have fallen a notch, but their league enables them to keep winning a lot of games in the regular season. All I'm saying is I don't want to hear anybody saying people are settling when those who hang onto the past rejoice in the last 9-10 years of 1st and 2nd round losses in the NCAA under the former coach. It can't be both ways. If you're happy with 28 wins in a much weaker conference and a second round loss or just getting to the tournament, then 26 wins playing in the BEast and a Sweet 16 and getting there yearly should make you very happy.

But if you wanna talk "FUN" and not results yes, the run from 1991-2005 was more fun to watch. Personally I just care about winning. That makes it fun to me. People forget attendance was dropping the last few years under Huggs too. Why? Because people came to accept a big regular season would be followed by a second round tournament loss. Sustained success = sustained tournament success which I personally define as getting past the first weekend consistently. If you are one of the last 16 teams standing most years for a national championship, you are a high level program.

I highly doubt Duke, UK, UNC, UConn and Kansas define their season by if they won 25 or more games. My guess is they are Elite because they win and compete for national championships yearly and that is what the fans expect.

I guarantee you if by hook or crook, UC goes to back to back Sweet 16's it will hold far more meaning in terms of national respect than if they would have won 26 games and finished top 3-4 in league play. People will be saying, "Mick Cronin has taken UC to back to back sweet 16s for the first time since 1992 and 1993."

Again, I loved the run from 1991-2005. I just recognize that from 1997 till 2005 that the program failed to sustain success where it matters. If memory serves me they finished 3rd 2 of the last 3 seasons in conference play under Huggins in CUSA.

Jeff, you make some good points and if you're happy with Mick and you believe that he's the guy that's going to take us to the heights you speak of above then that's great. But this isn't a black and white debate, it's also perfectly reasonable that there are many people like myself who aren't completely sold yet on Mick's abilities to get us to that point.

The truth is that Mick hasn't reached the levels of success that you speak of. This isn't a Mick vs Huggins argument and I hate the fact that it always has to turn into that. Huggins is long gone, I've been over it for years, just like the days of Mick taking over a decimated program are long gone. This program now belongs to Mick, the next couple years will be very telling for him and I guess we'll see what happens. Last season was great, this season was a huge disappointment. If we happen to upset Creighton in the first round of the tourney it's not going to change the fact that this season was a failure. Hopefully we're being set up to have more success in the next few years but looking at what I've seen up to this point I don't see it.

 

[UCBearcats]

Why have I not been posting? This thread is a great example. The forums today are dominated by Mick Cronin zealots who are happy with mediocrity and most of the other people who are not Mick lovers don't even bother posting anymore because it's just non-stop arguing over stupid stuff

He's EXACTLY right about this comment. Look at what's happening in the posts right below and above this one. Too many of you make it difficult for anyone who doesn't worship the ground that Mick walks on to post on these boards. Without opposing viewpoints these boards wouldn't be interesting to read at all.

I don't agree with his views of conference realignment but I think L-T's thoughts on Mick have been very well stated in this thread.

 

[bearcat jeff]

He's EXACTLY right about this comment. Look at what's happening in the posts right below and above this one. Too many of you make it difficult for anyone who doesn't worship the ground that Mick walks on to post on these boards. Without opposing viewpoints these boards wouldn't be interesting to read at all.

I don't agree with his views of conference realignment but I think L-T's thoughts on Mick have been very well stated in this thread.

It's called debate. One posts an opinion and others post a contrary one and then you debate. Problem is most on both sides get too emotional instead of giving facts as to why they believe like they do. It's the petty personal attacks that take away from the threads, not the debate and differences.

 

[kg5]

Until the University makes the basketball and football programs their number one priority we will be a second tier program. there's nothing to be ashamed of, the fact that we can compete at a high level is good enough for them. If we want to be mentioned with the Dukes and the Indiana's of the world we have to financially commit to the programs. And a Nippert Stadium upgrade I don't feel is the answer if we want to be attractive to these major conferences we need to utilize Paul Brown Stadium and sell that thing out upgrade fifth third Arena and sell it out consistently. Until that happens Cronin and the football team have to work with what they have and I feel they've done a good job.

 

[anbuc88]

You have now reached troll status. Cronin has credibility for the following reasons; he rebuilt the program, he wins, graduates players, keeps them off the police blotter, and he made a sweet 16 last year. If you don't respect that then you have problems.

I won't even waste my time replying to any other point you attempt to make as you are far past the point of reasoning.

It finally came to me after your post. L-T is the poster Longtimer who was banned from Bearcatnews, resurfaced under another screen name, and was again banned. The reason he hasn't posted till now is that Cronin has been doing well. He and BillyDon were the main culprits for the rampant negativity on that site 3 years ago, to the point that the AD's office contacted the administrators to tell them that it was hurting recruiting. That site was cleaned up when him, BillyDon, Beacon of Power, ThomasMaster, and others were banned. This site was started specifically due to the negativity on Bearcatnews, and I was invited at that time to join this board. Coincidentally, Lobot has a recent post on Becarcatnews about the negativity at that time. When this site was started, Lobot said that it was a matter of time until negativity permeated this site, as those posters will find this site. That time has finally arrived.

 

[L-T]

It's called debate. One posts an opinion and others post a contrary one and then you debate. Problem is most on both sides get too emotional instead of giving facts as to why they believe like they do. It's the petty personal attacks that take away from the threads, not the debate and differences.

Exactly! Great points. I've given lots of facts, and you have as well. I haven't convinced you, and you haven't swayed me. It happens. It's debate. I have no doubt that you're a great Bearcat fan. I know I'm a great fan...as big a fan as there is.

If you can't state your points freely and cordially, without the fringe people bringing out the "Troll" comments, then the forum just becomes a joke. I'd be willing to bet my life that there are far more Bearcat fans who are not Mick fans than vice versa. They just don't bother posting on these forums because it just end up with the personal attacks, the immature "Troll" comments, etc.

Honestly, we've beat this subject to death and none of us are changing anyone's opinion, so let's just get excited about Friday's game and I'm sure if we lose, I may have some comments, and if we win, you and the others will weigh in strongly. If Mick pulls the miracle of all miracles and beats Duke, I'll have to eat some crow and maybe, just maybe, cowtow over to your side. No matter what I think of you or you think of me...one thing is for certain...Go Cats!

 

[L-T]

It finally came to me after your post. L-T is the poster Longtimer who was banned from Bearcatnews, resurfaced under another screen name, and was again banned. The reason he hasn't posted till now is that Cronin has been doing well. He and BillyDon were the main culprits for the rampant negativity on that site 3 years ago, to the point that the AD's office contacted the administrators to tell them that it was hurting recruiting. That site was cleaned up when him, BillyDon, Beacon of Power, ThomasMaster, and others were banned. This site was started specifically due to the negativity on Bearcatnews, and I was invited at that time to join this board. Coincidentally, Lobot has a recent post on Becarcatnews about the negativity at that time. When this site was started, Lobot said that it was a matter of time until negativity permeated this site, as those posters will find this site. That time has finally arrived.

There are many fallacies in your post. I have been on Bearcatnews since 2008 and am posting today....but this is just a great example of what UCBEARCATS posted above. Somehow, having a concern about the coach is construed as negative, but personal attacks toward fellow fans is somehow not negative. It's a pretty funny phenomena.

 

[anbuc88]

There are many fallacies in your post. I have been on Bearcatnews since 2008 and am posting today....but this is just a great example of what UCBEARCATS posted above. Somehow, having a concern about the coach is construed as negative, but personal attacks toward fellow fans is somehow not negative. It's a pretty funny phenomena.

How about that you are the poster Longtimer. Is that a fallacy? He also had season tickets since the days of Armory Fieldhouse, just like you. He was banned from Bearcatnews, and resurfaced as another poster. His posts were identical to yours. There is NOTHING false in my post. It is 100% factual. At least you could have used another screen name rather than L-T to hide who you are. It makes it too easy to figure out. You have an agenda and are anti-Cronin. That is also a fact. Another fact is that this site will quickly spiral downward as we will be 'debating' the merits of Cronin as a coach until reasonable posters leave this site. That's what happened at Bearcatnews 3 years ago, and will happen here.

 

[aronius]

If you can't state your points freely and cordially, without the fringe people bringing out the "Troll" comments, then the forum just becomes a joke. I'd be willing to bet my life that there are far more Bearcat fans who are not Mick fans than vice versa. They just don't bother posting on these forums because it just end up with the personal attacks, the immature "Troll" comments, etc.

Maybe you shouldn't accuse anyone else of immaturity when you post gems such as.....

Nobody appreciates a coach who doesn't have the balls to compete against the best.

You expect rational discussion when posting this garbage? You post things like that just to get a rise out of people and then cry that it's not fair when people call you on it. Weak.

 

[UCBearcats]

How about that you are the poster Longtimer. Is that a fallacy? He also had season tickets since the days of Armory Fieldhouse, just like you. He was banned from Bearcatnews, and resurfaced as another poster. His posts were identical to yours. There is NOTHING false in my post. It is 100% factual. At least you could have used another screen name rather than L-T to hide who you are. It makes it too easy to figure out. You have an agenda and are anti-Cronin. That is also a fact. Another fact is that this site will quickly spiral downward as we will be 'debating' the merits of Cronin as a coach until reasonable posters leave this site. That's what happened at Bearcatnews 3 years ago, and will happen here.

I have no clue what the heck you're talking about but I think you might need to get a new hobby. Are you trying to say that someone who doesn't think Mick is a great head coach shouldn't be allowed to post on a message board? If too many people don't agree with your point of view then somehow that's wrong? C'mon man, without opposing viewpoints and debate these boards aren't even worth reading. I'm not a big message board guy, I found this place a while back because I was actually looking for some inside info on UC athletics. I quickly realized no one here has any clue about anything related to inside info but I've enjoyed being able to mix it up with fellow UC fans and share opinions. Sometimes the debates get a little heated but that's because we're all passionate UC fans.

I for one have appreciated L-T's posts up to this point, it's refreshing to have someone else express viewpoints that are somewhat in line with mine.

 

[anbuc88]

I have no clue what the heck you're talking about but I think you might need to get a new hobby. Are you trying to say that someone who doesn't think Mick is a great head coach shouldn't be allowed to post on a message board? If too many people don't agree with your point of view then somehow that's wrong? C'mon man, without opposing viewpoints and debate these boards aren't even worth reading. I'm not a big message board guy, I found this place a while back because I was actually looking for some inside info on UC athletics. I quickly realized no one here has any clue about anything related to inside info but I've enjoyed being able to mix it up with fellow UC fans and share opinions. Sometimes the debates get a little heated but that's because we're all passionate UC fans.

I for one have appreciated L-T's posts up to this point, it's refreshing to have someone else express viewpoints that are somewhat in line with mine.

You may not appreciate what I am talking about, but there are others on here who know EXACTLY what I am talking about. You needed to be on the Bearcatnews site 3 years ago to understand what I am referring to. Debate is fine, but comimg one here with an agenda, and posting constant baseless, anti-Cronin rhetoric is NOT. That's what Longtimer is about. I hope Lobot can chime in when he see this thread. Longtimer and BillyDon were the 2 posters who caused Bearcatnews to spiral out of control. Mark my word, the same will happen here.

 

[WAITE HOYT 2]

I have no problem with people posting their thoughts. Whether they agree with mine or not.

Mick is local and he represents the program well. This is what I want as a fan. Players who compete hard, go to the tourney and graduate the players. Looking at the rise in attendence it is apparent that others are starting to feel the same way. That is good for the University and the city of Cincinnati. If Mick decided to leave there would be no shortage of offers. Mick is a good enough coach that he will be here longterm if that is his choice. With each good year the team has, his reputation gets stronger in the recruiting circles. He does a good job in NY which is huge. I'm a believer in that the coach gets to much credit when the team wins and to much blame after a loss. I've said it before and I'll say it again anyone not realizing the job Mick has done either has limited knowledge of the game or just has a axe to grind with the program. He has been offered jobs, every telecast the announcers have commented on the great job he's done. Anyone who doesn't enjoy the program under his leadership feel free to spend your time and money elsewhere. Mick will be here a longtime.