UC vs. Syracuse

[TheLongHaul]

Its a shot that he has made before and our bigs played decent at best so the only person that I would have passed to anywhere close to the interior was Titus since that worked in the game. Cash has hit threes with people closer to him than that before. I would have wanted him or SK to take the 3 for the win. Like I said, going into overtime would have resulted in a loss.

Like I said, I don't necessarily disagree with a 3 there. It was the shot itself. No passes whatsoever. The whole point of passing it to the interior is it forces the defense to collapse and then it creates an open look. Not to mention it's easier to shoot when the ball is passed to you from the inside.

Just because Cash has made it before doesn't make it a good shot. A fadeaway 3 with a man in his face without any ball movement and with plenty of time on the shot clock is never a good shot.

 

[ucswais]

Yep. Didn't mind the shot either. Sure, it would have looked better if they would have gotten some ball movement first, but ultimately what you were looking for on that possession is a clean look at 3 for Cash or SK. I thought it was a decent look regardless of how it came to be and he shot it with enough time to track down another OReb which we had been doing all day.

I actually don't agree with the theory that we shoot too many 3's in general. When you've got guys on this team hitting like 40%, that's already 1.2 ppp. Add in the percentage of the time we're scoring 2nd chance points off 3 misses and we are pretty efficient when we're getting decent looks from 3.

I think if you take away pure fast break points, our half court offense is much more efficient more shooting 3's than 2's. The only thing that even makes it close is our inability to get to the line shooting 3's all the time.

 

[TheLongHaul]

I dunno, I guess we could argue about it all day. I went back and watched it on replay and I would never have considered that a clean look. And at that point he was 1-7 from behind the arc.

This team only has two shooters (Cash - 42%, Parker - 41%) that hit at 40%. Their next best is SK (35%). They are 8th in the Big East in 3pt % but first in attempts...I get that they are going to live and die by the 3 but I think they need to make a better effort at getting cleaner looks. That means player movement, ball movement, and an inside out game even if the inside player isn't much threat to score.

 

[Bearcat22]

If you would have heard the post game, the out of bounds play was not what was called. CM was suppose to flash to the high post and the play was to run from there for a kick down or out but CM never flashed. I keep telling you guys that the iq of this team is low and the players aren't always running the designed plays and offense. That's not an excuse, it's a fact.

I've heard Mick allude to this before in other comments by saying things like the team has much more success when they run the plays he calls (I'm paraphrasing). Is there any sense of the basketball IQ level of the incoming class? The bits of info we get seems to be encouraging.

 

[anbuc88]

I dunno, I guess we could argue about it all day. I went back and watched it on replay and I would never have considered that a clean look. And at that point he was 1-7 from behind the arc.

This team only has two shooters (Cash - 42%, Parker - 41%) that hit at 40%. Their next best is SK (35%). They are 8th in the Big East in 3pt % but first in attempts...I get that they are going to live and die by the 3 but I think they need to make a better effort at getting cleaner looks. That means player movement, ball movement, and an inside out game even if the inside player isn't much threat to score.

I think in an end game situation, on the road against the #3 team in the country, one that is known for their defense, that was as good as a look as you can expect. They had someone on SK and were going to deny him the ball. With the clock running down, Cash had a look at the basket without a hand in his face. It just didn't go down. The disappointing possession was the previous one, where he took a 25 footer, CM rebounded, and rather than resetting the offense, Cash took it into the heart of the defense and lost the ball.

 

[mplebanon]

People criticizing the last shot by Cash......

1. ........assume S K was open and not smothered by Syracuse' D. I didn't DVR it so I can't go back and look.

2. What I saw was Cash trying to penetrate twice and the lanes for cut off by some good Syracuse D. So Cash had no choice but to jack up a 3 he nearly made.

As good as UC's D was all game, I am a bit stunned that they let Syracuse score non-stop the last 4 minutes. Not sure if 'Cuse was just lucky, hot, or what.........but you could feel the game slippin' away.

 

[bearcat jeff]

I've heard Mick allude to this before in other comments by saying things like the team has much more success when they run the plays he calls (I'm paraphrasing). Is there any sense of the basketball IQ level of the incoming class? The bits of info we get seems to be encouraging.

I believe Caupain, Johnson and Mormon are average or better iq guys. I'd say Caupain has good basketball iq. All 3 are high effort guys. Can't say for Strickland. I try to find box scores and stuff on him and never can.

 

[UCalum08]

I believe Caupain, Johnson and Mormon are average or better iq guys. I'd say Caupain has good basketball iq. All 3 are high effort guys. Can't say for Strickland. I try to find box scores and stuff on him and never can.

KJ from what I have heard and the little I have seen has strong bball IQ. Hopefully he can translate that onto the collegiate level. As for Mbodj not coming up high on that last play like Cronin instructed...if I was coach I would make that boy run some serious suicides and then after that, flick him on the forhead. That is beyond unacceptable. How do you not doing something as basic as that on a play your coach drew up. SMH

 

[anbuc88]

KJ from what I have heard and the little I have seen has strong bball IQ. Hopefully he can translate that onto the collegiate level. As for Mbodj not coming up high on that last play like Cronin instructed...if I was coach I would make that boy run some serious suicides and then after that, flick him on the forhead. That is beyond unacceptable. How do you not doing something as basic as that on a play your coach drew up. SMH

I'm not sure that this was Moodj fault or Cash's fault. Moodj was in the high post and set a screen for Cash at the top of the arc, allowing him to try a 3 pointer. You can draw up any play that you want, but it doesn't mean it will be run to perfection. The defense and what they give you will dictate what you can do. SU didn't just sit back and play a docile zone on that last possession, but attacked the ball handler. I don't think they had time to set up a designed play as SU took them out of what they wanted to do. Give SU credit, and don't always blame the players as having a low basketball IQ.

 

[WAITE HOYT 2]

Tough game to lose. I"d give my kingdom for a inside presence that could score with his back to the basket.It would cure alot of what is wrong with this team offensively. Fact is this team is very limited offensively when teams take away the easy trasition basket and don't turn the ball over. We are a jump shooting team. Modj, David N and Gaines give us little offensively. They rebound well and are long on D. Yesterday was about as well as Modj can play. Actually I thought Mick may have started running clock a little early yesterday. We had them on the ropes and took our foot off their throat. When we started running clock we stopped running our offense. We were getting very good looks until we started running the clock down. I'm not suggesting we should have jacked up quick jumpers but dribbling time off the clock and looking for a shot late hurt us.

 

[UCalum08]

I'm not sure that this was Moodj fault or Cash's fault. Moodj was in the high post and set a screen for Cash at the top of the arc, allowing him to try a 3 pointer. You can draw up any play that you want, but it doesn't mean it will be run to perfection. The defense and what they give you will dictate what you can do. SU didn't just sit back and play a docile zone on that last possession, but attacked the ball handler. I don't think they had time to set up a designed play as SU took them out of what they wanted to do. Give SU credit, and don't always blame the players as having a low basketball IQ.

Agreed, ultimately I think Cash should have never had the ball because it was clear he was very limited and he wasn't going to be able to really make any move toward the basket. Really wish sk would have had the ball in his hand but its all hindsight. I am just glad they have a decent break to rest and prepare against RU. Its never easy to beat a team twice in this league.

 

[bearcat18]

I think in an end game situation, on the road against the #3 team in the country, one that is known for their defense, that was as good as a look as you can expect. They had someone on SK and were going to deny him the ball. With the clock running down, Cash had a look at the basket without a hand in his face. It just didn't go down. The disappointing possession was the previous one, where he took a 25 footer, CM rebounded, and rather than resetting the offense, Cash took it into the heart of the defense and lost the ball.

Yep, people automatically assume we would have gotten a perfect shot if we got the ball in the high post. It's possible we could have, but it often takes 2-3 quick passes to get a good, clean look, and we simply didn't have enough time. A lot of people are assuming we make the perfect play too. What happens if Syracuse's length causes problems and they deflect/steal the pass? What happens if Syracuse's guards collapse and steal the ball from Cheikh? What if they don't even guard Cheikh and deny passes back out to our guards? How many on here are comfortable with Cheikh taking a 15 foot jumper to tie it up? Syracuse's guards are experienced and smart so I doubt they would have collapsed and left Cash, SK, or Parker open.

I think we got just as good of a look as we could get...It just didn't fall. I know a miss is a miss but it's not like he air balled the shot or bricked it. Cash is actually a better shooter the deeper he is so I have no complaints with the shot. I wish he wouldn't have faded like he did but it is what it is.

Jackson has been disappointing this year but I don't get bashing him for the game yesterday. Yea, he had a key turnover which he shouldn't have had any business handling the ball. But he played pretty well in the high post in the second half and had some key rebounds and a putback.

 

[TheLongHaul]

I don't think any automatically assumed that they would have gotten off a better shot but that isn't exactly a good mentality to have. You play the percentages and the percentages are better when you get a good look. Your percentages are better when there is player and ball movement. Your percentages are better when you attack the basket....It's exactly what SK did against Marquette and is the reason they won. Against SJU, ND (I think, can't remember), and now SU they have dribbled around the perimeter and took a low percentage shot and have lost.

I wouldn't be too keen on the idea of Mbodj getting the ball in the high post but would have been happy to have Rubles or SK slash there to try to get the ball.

 

[anbuc88]

I don't think any automatically assumed that they would have gotten off a better shot but that isn't exactly a good mentality to have. You play the percentages and the percentages are better when you get a good look. Your percentages are better when there is player and ball movement. Your percentages are better when you attack the basket....It's exactly what SK did against Marquette and is the reason they won. Against SJU, ND (I think, can't remember), and now SU they have dribbled around the perimeter and took a low percentage shot and have lost.

I wouldn't be too keen on the idea of Mbodj getting the ball in the high post but would have been happy to have Rubles or SK slash there to try to get the ball.

Against MU, SK got the ball and initiated offense against a M2M defense. Against SU he would have had to do this against their zone. Do you have confidence that he could have created his own shot against their zone given his handle. I sure don't. If he would have gotten the ball at the top of the key he would have likely had to put up a 25-30 foot shot, or would have turned it over. Cash had to have the ball in his hands, and SU forced him to make a play. He just didn't make the shot.

 

[TheLongHaul]

Against MU, SK got the ball and initiated offense against a M2M defense. Against SU he would have had to do this against their zone. Do you have confidence that he could have created his own shot against their zone given his handle. I sure don't. If he would have gotten the ball at the top of the key he would have likely had to put up a 25-30 foot shot, or would have turned it over. Cash had to have the ball in his hands, and SU forced him to make a play. He just didn't make the shot.

I would have had more confidence in SK getting the ball in the high post and penetrating than I had in Cash shooting a fadeway 3 with a hand in his face when he was already 1-7 from the 3pt line....without a doubt.

You say SU forced him to make a play as if you expected SU to just lay down and roll over. Of course they forced him to make a play, it's called defense. His play they forced just wasn't a good one IMO....I guess you weren't upset at the play they ran against SJU's where Cash just dribbled around the perimeter and took a bad 3 that got blocked?

 

[Bearcat04]

I'm not sure that this was Moodj fault or Cash's fault. Moodj was in the high post and set a screen for Cash at the top of the arc, allowing him to try a 3 pointer. You can draw up any play that you want, but it doesn't mean it will be run to perfection. The defense and what they give you will dictate what you can do. SU didn't just sit back and play a docile zone on that last possession, but attacked the ball handler. I don't think they had time to set up a designed play as SU took them out of what they wanted to do. Give SU credit, and don't always blame the players as having a low basketball IQ.

I don't get that either. It's a running theme on UC boards to talk about how we have very low IQ players, yet I see a lot of the same mistakes, if not worse, from a lot of the top teams. Just in the last week I've seen UL, OSU, and Gonzaga all make horrible decisions in the final minute to lose a game. I've watched a player for a highly-ranked IU team foul a 3-point shooter three different times, twice in the final minutes, to almost blow a huge lead. I guess I just watch more basketball than most, but I don't see a huge IQ gap between our players and the teams in the top 10.

 

[bearcat jeff]

Guys, they seem to be making progress but lot of what happens is on court iq. Nobody is saying they're dumb, it is two different things. They settle for jump shots even when they aren't hitting them. They don't pass. They don't cut to the basket. There are a lot of basketball intelligence things they don't do.

 

[anbuc88]

I would have had more confidence in SK getting the ball in the high post and penetrating than I had in Cash shooting a fadeway 3 with a hand in his face when he was already 1-7 from the 3pt line....without a doubt.You say SU forced him to make a play as if you expected SU to just lay down and roll over. Of course they forced him to make a play, it's called defense. His play they forced just wasn't a good one IMO....I guess you weren't upset at the play they ran against SJU's where Cash just dribbled around the perimeter and took a bad 3 that got blocked?

I would completely disagree. SK couldn't penetrate against their zone using a dribble drive, he just doesn't have the handle. He would have pulled up and taken a contested 3 and then you would have complained that they didn't get the ball to Cash, who is their best 3 point shooter. Earleir in the game, SK tried to penetrate, lost the ball, and Guyn tried to save it but was on the end line. Result- a turnover.

Saying that SU forced Cash to make a play has nothing to do with expecting SU to lay down. Yeah, it is called defense. And SU is as good at playing it as anyone in the country. How about giving them some credit, rather than pointing to our players IQ. BTW, Cash's shot was blocked against ND, not SJU. And he had a good look against SU, it just didn't go down.

 

[Hicks' Guns]

Always love Mo's take. Sums up Syracuse and this team very reasonably:

http://www.espn1530.com/pages/mo.html?article=10716939

 

[anbuc88]

Guys, they seem to be making progress but lot of what happens is on court iq. Nobody is saying they're dumb, it is two different things. They settle for jump shots even when they aren't hitting them. They don't pass. They don't cut to the basket. There are a lot of basketball intelligence things they don't do.

Cronin has said on multiple occasions that they need to improve their passing. That has nothing to do with basketball IQ. They settle for jump shot because they have no inside presence and the guards have little confidence in the bigs.