@UCF

[UCBearcats]

Troy did not play well but his ceiling is what we need to do well going forward. Sitting him is not the answer. Him playing up to his capabilities is. We need our conference player of the year to play like one. Putting JJ in more often is not the answer.

I disagree Waite, you pick your spots to use JJ but there are situations where he needs to play more at the point. JJ and Troy can both be on the floor at the same time.

Yesterday's game was a perfect example of this, our offense was much better with JJ out there at the point than with Troy. In the games where our offense if flowing and we're getting out on the break then you want Troy out there facilitating and not causing turnovers, but in a game like yesterday's JJ was clearly the better option. Just look at the +/- with him on the floor vs without.

 

[WAITE HOYT 2]

I disagree Waite, you pick your spots to use JJ but there are situations where he needs to play more at the point. JJ and Troy can both be on the floor at the same time.

Yesterday's game was a perfect example of this, our offense was much better with JJ out there at the point than with Troy. In the games where our offense if flowing and we're getting out on the break then you want Troy out there facilitating and not causing turnovers, but in a game like yesterday's JJ was clearly the better option. Just look at the +/- with him on the floor vs without.

That game wasn't lost because of Micks substitutions. We did not hit enough shots. Wide open looks have to be made at a clip better then 29%. I don't care who is running the point. You can't get outrebound, have your inside game shut completely down and your wings shoot 29% from behind the arc and expect to win.

 

[cincyguy13]

That game wasn't lost because of Micks substitutions. We did not hit enough shots. Wide open looks have to be made at a clip better then 29%. I don't care who is running the point. You can't get outrebound, have your inside game shut completely down and your wings shoot 29% from behind the arc and expect to win.

I agree. I did think he play Cumberland more. So he was trying to get more offense in there. I like JJ but he still isn't better than Troy, Evans, or Cumberland. If Washington and Clark play terrible, we aren't beating anyone. They are the main part of our offense.

 

[WAITE HOYT 2]

I agree. I did think he play Cumberland more. So he was trying to get more offense in there. I like JJ but he still isn't better than Troy, Evans, or Cumberland. If Washington and Clark play terrible, we aren't beating anyone. They are the main part of our offense.

To win in todays college game you better be hitting more then 29% from behind the arc. Especially when your bigs are not able to make a shot. Cumberland made some nice plays but in the end he was 3-8. he did get to the line. TC and Washington can not be 4-22 on the road.

 

[UCBearcats]

That game wasn't lost because of Micks substitutions. We did not hit enough shots. Wide open looks have to be made at a clip better then 29%. I don't care who is running the point. You can't get outrebound, have your inside game shut completely down and your wings shoot 29% from behind the arc and expect to win.

I didn't say it was lost because of Mick's subs. What I'm saying is had JJ played at the point in the second half we might have had a better chance of winning. Situations change during games and sometimes you need to adjust, we were a better team yesterday with JJ in the game and he should have played more minutes.

A lot of guys love to talk about our "wide open shots" but when we're taking 3's and long 2's the percentages are lower than if we can get the ball inside or get to the FT line. We've got some pretty decent shooters on this team but no one is really a knock down 3 specialist. Guys like Evans and Cumberland should be scoring closer to the basket and Gary Clark should never be shooting 3's. You can talk about "wide open shots" all you want but we've all seen what happens to this team when the 3's aren't falling. We need to find a way to create more opportunities inside. In a game like yesterday I'd rather take a contested shot at the rim and likely get fouled than watch us continue to throw up "wide open" brick after brick from the 3 pt line.

I think yesterday was just a bad game, it's not the end of the world. The bigger issue is that most of our recent road games have been bad games and I don't see us making any adjustments to get over the hump.

 

[waterhead]

To win in todays college game you better be hitting more then 29% from behind the arc. Especially when your bigs are not able to make a shot. Cumberland made some nice plays but in the end he was 3-8. he did get to the line. TC and Washington can not be 4-22 on the road.

On a cold shooting night from 3 Cumberland found a way to put 11 points on the board and also had 4 or 5 assists contributing to probably 10+ more. He accounted for over 40 % of our points.

He and Evans probably accounted for 80% in some way.

 

[PakMan]

That game wasn't lost because of Micks substitutions. We did not hit enough shots. Wide open looks have to be made at a clip better then 29%. I don't care who is running the point. You can't get outrebound, have your inside game shut completely down and your wings shoot 29% from behind the arc and expect to win.

Shooting has a lot to do with timing and delivery of passes, which is what Jenifer excels at once he penetrates. He and Cumberland are the two best passers on this team by far. Maybe it would've helped yesterday, I don't know for sure, but at least it should have been tried.

 

[WAITE HOYT 2]

I didn't say it was lost because of Mick's subs. What I'm saying is had JJ played at the point in the second half we might have had a better chance of winning. Situations change during games and sometimes you need to adjust, we were a better team yesterday with JJ in the game and he should have played more minutes.

A lot of guys love to talk about our "wide open shots" but when we're taking 3's and long 2's the percentages are lower than if we can get the ball inside or get to the FT line. We've got some pretty decent shooters on this team but no one is really a knock down 3 specialist. Guys like Evans and Cumberland should be scoring closer to the basket and Gary Clark should never be shooting 3's. You can talk about "wide open shots" all you want but we've all seen what happens to this team when the 3's aren't falling. We need to find a way to create more opportunities inside. In a game like yesterday I'd rather take a contested shot at the rim and likely get fouled than watch us continue to throw up "wide open" brick after brick from the 3 pt line.

I think yesterday was just a bad game, it's not the end of the world. The bigger issue is that most of our recent road games have been bad games and I don't see us making any adjustments to get over the hump.

I guess we will agree to disagree. Gary and Washington were not effective at all yesterday. Shooting or rebounding. While I like Gary's post game and feel he is better utilized closer to the hoop, he has shown he has the ability to knock down a three. The fact that threes were not falling, our inside game was not there coupled with the fact that we were out rebounded made yesterdays game a loss.

 

[waterhead]

Shooting has a lot to do with timing and delivery of passes, which is what Jenifer excels at once he penetrates. He and Cumberland are the two best passers on this team by far. Maybe it would've helped yesterday, I don't know for sure, but at least it should have been tried.

We needed a spark and we didn't even attempt it. We got a spark in the first half from Jenifer. That doesn't mean you play him 20 minutes in the second half. Obviously we want Troy down the stretch (say last 5 minutes) because of his experience in close games and his ability to make big plays sometimes. We could have tried Jenifer for at least 5 minutes in the middle of the second half at a minimum.

 

[cincyguy13]

I didn't say it was lost because of Mick's subs. What I'm saying is had JJ played at the point in the second half we might have had a better chance of winning. Situations change during games and sometimes you need to adjust, we were a better team yesterday with JJ in the game and he should have played more minutes.

A lot of guys love to talk about our "wide open shots" but when we're taking 3's and long 2's the percentages are lower than if we can get the ball inside or get to the FT line. We've got some pretty decent shooters on this team but no one is really a knock down 3 specialist. Guys like Evans and Cumberland should be scoring closer to the basket and Gary Clark should never be shooting 3's. You can talk about "wide open shots" all you want but we've all seen what happens to this team when the 3's aren't falling. We need to find a way to create more opportunities inside. In a game like yesterday I'd rather take a contested shot at the rim and likely get fouled than watch us continue to throw up "wide open" brick after brick from the 3 pt line.

I think yesterday was just a bad game, it's not the end of the world. The bigger issue is that most of our recent road games have been bad games and I don't see us making any adjustments to get over the hump.

I agree with you. Even if the shots are wide open, the 3 is a low percentage shot. That's why teams play zone. But the guys that can make them, have to make some or there is no reason to guard them. We all would love to see our team drive more and create more but if you don't make a couple of the shots you should it doesn't matter what kind of offense you run.

 

[jacobkdoyle]

How was the UCF during these same minutes? Honestly asking. If they were scoring at a good pace, we might have our answer as to why he didn't play

I *think* UCF had 11 with Jenifer in. Either way, offense was our issue. We barely scored 1 point per minute with him out.

 

[cincyguy13]

I do hate when we just pass back and forth for 28 seconds then throw up a terrible shot. Jj and Cumberland at least try to attack.

 

[UCBearcats]

I guess we will agree to disagree. Gary and Washington were not effective at all yesterday. Shooting or rebounding. While I like Gary's post game and feel he is better utilized closer to the hoop, he has shown he has the ability to knock down a three. The fact that threes were not falling, our inside game was not there coupled with the fact that we were out rebounded made yesterdays game a loss.

I'm not speaking just about yesterday's game but about our performance on the road as a whole. This team struggles when the 3's aren't falling. If Mick is being forced to play the slow it down game on the road because shots continue not to fall then he needs to figure out a way to allow for more offense closer to the rim.

 

[UCBearcats]

I agree with you. Even if the shots are wide open, the 3 is a low percentage shot. That's why teams play zone. But the guys that can make them, have to make some or there is no reason to guard them. We all would love to see our team drive more and create more but if you don't make a couple of the shots you should it doesn't matter what kind of offense you run.

I don't disagree with you, some of those shots have to fall to open up the inside game a little more. My comments aren't just directed towards last night's game but towards our road play in general.

What you mentioned above is an outside/in philosophy but when the shots aren't falling we need to be better at trying to take the game inside out. KWash can score pretty well from 15 ft and in, Gary can be a monster at times and we have (2) physical guard/forwards in Evans and Cumberland who are very good at getting to and finishing at the rim.

I'll just never believe that there isn't more we could be doing to create more open looks at the rim. Screens, backdoor cuts, better interior passing, better spacing.........I don't know what the answer is but I think the staff needs to figure that out. There has to be a backup plan for when the shots aren't falling, simply saying our guys are missing wide open shots is not a solution. If we can't make them from outside the arc then we need to start moving closer to the rim.

 

[jacobkdoyle]

Troy did not play well but his ceiling is what we need to do well going forward. Sitting him is not the answer. Him playing up to his capabilities is. We need our conference player of the year to play like one. Putting JJ in more often is not the answer.

Looked like the answer yesterday.

I don't think anyone is saying bench Caupain for Jenifer from here on out. But for yesterday's game, we looked better with Jenifer at the Point. He played with Caupain too, so that's fine. Caupain doesn't have to be benched. But for yesterday, it was night and day on when we looked better offensively. Caupain can't do anything vs a defense like that. Can't shoot, can't drive, can't push the ball. Result: 49 points.

 

[jacobkdoyle]

That game wasn't lost because of Micks substitutions. We did not hit enough shots. Wide open looks have to be made at a clip better then 29%. I don't care who is running the point. You can't get outrebound, have your inside game shut completely down and your wings shoot 29% from behind the arc and expect to win.

How do you not care who is running the offense when we score 49 freaking points!?!? You had no issue with Jenifer playing 0 minutes in the 2nd half after doing well in the 1st half?

 

[jacobkdoyle]

I didn't say it was lost because of Mick's subs. What I'm saying is had JJ played at the point in the second half we might have had a better chance of winning. Situations change during games and sometimes you need to adjust, we were a better team yesterday with JJ in the game and he should have played more minutes.

A lot of guys love to talk about our "wide open shots" but when we're taking 3's and long 2's the percentages are lower than if we can get the ball inside or get to the FT line. We've got some pretty decent shooters on this team but no one is really a knock down 3 specialist. Guys like Evans and Cumberland should be scoring closer to the basket and Gary Clark should never be shooting 3's. You can talk about "wide open shots" all you want but we've all seen what happens to this team when the 3's aren't falling. We need to find a way to create more opportunities inside. In a game like yesterday I'd rather take a contested shot at the rim and likely get fouled than watch us continue to throw up "wide open" brick after brick from the 3 pt line.

I think yesterday was just a bad game, it's not the end of the world. The bigger issue is that most of our recent road games have been bad games and I don't see us making any adjustments to get over the hump.

First, we were playing a 7'6" guy. So easier said than done. And second, really? Clark should never shoot a 3? Do you realize what it does for our offense when he's a threat to shoot a jump shot? Remember as a FR when we had 2 post guys who weren't a threat to shoot anywhere but inside? We scored 62 points per game. You have to shoot 3s in 2017 college basketball. You just have too. Especially against a 7'6" guy when most possessions are straight halfcout. Not even LeBron is getting to the rim at will in a game like that. Add in the fact that our PG can't break down a defense, or shoot, and it makes things that much tougher.

 

[Bearcat_NTS]

I'd be more interested in hearing him talk about what he's going to do to fix it. Mick's post game comments were pretty good, minus his obligatory griping about defense and toughness, he's right about passing and shot selection.

I'd love to know what his plan is to fix these issues, this is a talented team that can be very dangerous if it scores. How are we going to adjust to allow these guys to get easier buckets away from home?

It took him nearly 11 years to realize offense is an issue in the first place. Baby steps.

 

[jacobkdoyle]

I don't disagree with you, some of those shots have to fall to open up the inside game a little more. My comments aren't just directed towards last night's game but towards our road play in general.

What you mentioned above is an outside/in philosophy but when the shots aren't falling we need to be better at trying to take the game inside out. KWash can score pretty well from 15 ft and in, Gary can be a monster at times and we have (2) physical guard/forwards in Evans and Cumberland who are very good at getting to and finishing at the rim.

I'll just never believe that there isn't more we could be doing to create more open looks at the rim. Screens, backdoor cuts, better interior passing, better spacing.........I don't know what the answer is but I think the staff needs to figure that out. There has to be a backup plan for when the shots aren't falling, simply saying our guys are missing wide open shots is not a solution. If we can't make them from outside the arc then we need to start moving closer to the rim.

Yeah I mean we scored 49 freaking points. Simply saying "Oh well, shots didn't fall" isn't quite good enough for me. We make 2 more 3s and we're well above our season average...and that leaves us at 55? Still not good enough. Still not even close.

 

[UCBearcats]

First, we were playing a 7'6" guy. So easier said than done. And second, really? Clark should never shoot a 3? Do you realize what it does for our offense when he's a threat to shoot a jump shot? Remember as a FR when we had 2 post guys who weren't a threat to shoot anywhere but inside? We scored 62 points per game. You have to shoot 3s in 2017 college basketball. You just have too. Especially against a 7'6" guy when most possessions are straight halfcout. Not even LeBron is getting to the rim at will in a game like that. Add in the fact that our PG can't break down a defense, or shoot, and it makes things that much tougher.

Again, I'm not talking about just yesterday's game. I get the impact a guy like Taco can have on the game, although Mick completely discounted in in his post game. There are ways to beat a guy like him inside, we just didn't find them.

Gary has minimal attempts from behind the arc so I really don't think the .08 3's he's attempting per game are having a huge positive impact on our offense. If it is I'm not seeing the reward from it, shouldn't stretching your big guys outside for 3's lead to more easy buckets inside? I'd rather Gary is inside on the post or occupying the circle in the zone than floating around the 3 point line waiting for a "wide open" look at a 3.

I understand the impact a big who can shoot 3's at a high percentage can have, but Gary isn't that player.