UCLA

[joshuag12000]

Okay, honest poll here -- how many of you would have taken Andy Kennedy over Mick Cronin when the hire was made? And how many of you would still take Andy Kennedy over Mick Cronin now?

I was 100% behind hiring Andy Kennedy and was pretty distraught that we didn't retain him. I will admit that between Huggins' firing and Kennedy being brushed aside, I lost most of my interest in the program for about 2 years. But, would I trade Cronin for Kennedy now? Absolutely not. Cronin is a better recruiter and a better face for the program. Is he a better basketball coach than Kennedy? Debatable.

I actually believe hiring Cronin over Kennedy is the major cause of the rift in the fan support. For the Huggin's loyalist Kennedy would have been an acceptible replacement as he had a decent year here. Not hiring him resulted in the Huggin's loyalist abandoning the program along with wrecking the team by losing Devan Downy and any recruit that might have been interested in UC with Kennedy as coach. It basically left Cronin with an empty cupboard and a short amount of time to fill it.

Kennedy has done a decent job at Mississippi which wasn't much of a basketball program before he got there. I think Cronin has done a decent job at rebuilding and I don't know if we'd be better off now if we had stuck with Kennedy, but I don't think the rift in the fans would be as extreme. In college sports a lot of the fans for particular teams never actually attended the college they root for so they have no loyalty to the school. When you factor in being in a town with Xavier, NKU, Miami, Ohio State, Dayton, Kentucky, and a few others all within a reasonable distance its easy for these fans to find another hot team to follow and support. Regaining these fans after destroying the program and suffering through a few losing seasons is gonna be hard.

Like it or not I think Cronin is here until he is forced out. Unfortunately I see him in a similar situation Mike Davis found at IU. He could be an above average coach, but without a run to the Final Four he will never satisfy the fans that are against him.

 

[User Name:]

So let me get this straight, according to you UC didn't play anyone good until Big East play and therefore Cash's injury is irrelevant since it obviously had no effect on outcomes of any close games against good teams? Is that right?

Good thing Oregon is not in the Sweet 16 and Iowa State didn't play well and get jobbed. I don't know how many games you watched but if you couldn't see a difference between Cash pre injury and post injury, then you are either blind or only seeing what you want to see. Oh, and I guess Cash separating his shoulder 6 times and not having full range of motion was a mirage too, right?

Not saying we 'didn't play anyone good'. Just saying the quality of opponents in our OOC did not prepare these particular players for the Big East grind. Last year it worked out fine because the team was much more physical/tougher.

Sure there was a difference in his play but you don't think this was caused by the quality of opponents? Its much easier to score against Tennessee Martin than Pitt. Wouldn't you agree?

Just answer me this: Did the competition get tougher or easier during conference play?

 

[Bcatfollower]

I actually believe hiring Cronin over Kennedy is the major cause of the rift in the fan support. For the Huggin's loyalist Kennedy would have been an acceptible replacement as he had a decent year here. Not hiring him resulted in the Huggin's loyalist abandoning the program along with wrecking the team by losing Devan Downy and any recruit that might have been interested in UC with Kennedy as coach. It basically left Cronin with an empty cupboard and a short amount of time to fill it.

Kennedy has done a decent job at Mississippi which wasn't much of a basketball program before he got there. I think Cronin has done a decent job at rebuilding and I don't know if we'd be better off now if we had stuck with Kennedy, but I don't think the rift in the fans would be as extreme. In college sports a lot of the fans for particular teams never actually attended the college they root for so they have no loyalty to the school. When you factor in being in a town with Xavier, NKU, Miami, Ohio State, Dayton, Kentucky, and a few others all within a reasonable distance its easy for these fans to find another hot team to follow and support. Regaining these fans after destroying the program and suffering through a few losing seasons is gonna be hard.

Like it or not I think Cronin is here until he is forced out. Unfortunately I see him in a similar situation Mike Davis found at IU. He could be an above average coach, but without a run to the Final Four he will never satisfy the fans that are against him.

Mike davis went to the national championship game coaching Indiana.

 

[Bearcat22]

I like Mick. He's honest, humble, fiery, and has beaten some good coaches, sometimes consistently times. (Pitino, Thompson III, Jay Wright) Let's be honest, his team had a shaky offense that really just had a meltdown following Wright's injury. looking back on the season, i see a decent team that overachieved at times while also underachieving following Wright's injury. Mick's bringing in a good class, let's see how it plays out.

I think that's fair. Mick brought the program back to respectability. I think he's earned the right and time to try to take it to the next level. That's going to mean following a great 2013 recruiting class with another in 2014 and so on. Also, he needs on court results with deep tourney runs. I used a Michigan State comparison previously and stand by it. They recruit well and come tournament time they are a team that wouldn't surprise anyone with a deep run or national championship. It's the difference between thinking it would be great to get to a final four versus a team that can consistently challenge for it. Mick isn't there yet but in my opinion has earned the right to try to get there. It's not an open ended proposition and it's not certain he's capable of it. I think the next 2-3 seasons will be a good indicator of whether he has plateaued or if this is a leaping off point for better things to come.

 

[bearcatrunner]

It sure is nice to be back to the spot where getting to the big dance is considered a disappointing season. Thanks Mick for that.

Now shut up these idiots on this board and find that pure shooting point guard we really need. So we can get to the final four and we don't have to read this nonsense anymore.

 

[joshuag12000]

Mike davis went to the national championship game coaching Indiana.

Yeah, at Indiana that wasn't enough to make up for the other mediocre years. At UC that may not be the case. Huggins was set for life on one final 4 followed by an elite 8 and a bunch of first and second round knockouts until he screwed up. Then again Cronin may have the same problem Davis did of being the guy to follow "the guy" but winning quiets a lot of critics for a while at least.

 

[bearcatrunner]

Double post due to slow server update.

 

[UCBearcats]

It sure is nice to be back to the spot where getting to the big dance is considered a disappointing season. Thanks Mick for that.

Now shut up these idiots on this board and find that pure shooting point guard we really need. So we can get to the final four and we don't have to read this nonsense anymore.

You might want to request he finds a big man too, just saying

 

[TheLongHaul]

It sure is nice to be back to the spot where getting to the big dance is considered a disappointing season. Thanks Mick for that.

Now shut up these idiots on this board and find that pure shooting point guard we really need. So we can get to the final four and we don't have to read this nonsense anymore.

If Cash was anything when he was recruited it was a shooting point guard. He was known for his outside shooting. Sanders was supposed to be a pure shooter and SK, even though not widely regarded as a great 3 point shooter, shot at a very disappointing clip this year. I'm more concerned with getting good solid basketball players and working on an offense that creates easy looks.

 

[Bearcat04]

I think that's fair. Mick brought the program back to respectability. I think he's earned the right and time to try to take it to the next level. That's going to mean following a great 2013 recruiting class with another in 2014 and so on. Also, he needs on court results with deep tourney runs. I used a Michigan State comparison previously and stand by it. They recruit well and come tournament time they are a team that wouldn't surprise anyone with a deep run or national championship. It's the difference between thinking it would be great to get to a final four versus a team that can consistently challenge for it. Mick isn't there yet but in my opinion has earned the right to try to get there. It's not an open ended proposition and it's not certain he's capable of it. I think the next 2-3 seasons will be a good indicator of whether he has plateaued or if this is a leaping off point for better things to come.

The problem with that comparison is that it's hard to have Michigan State expectations with a budget that rivals TCU's. A program like MSU, with a top 10 budget, has the best of everything. They have an elite coaching staff, great facilities, and the ability to fly assistant coaches all over the country to recruit. At UC our coach has to raise money just so that the team can travel like other major programs.

 

[TheLongHaul]

Yeah, at Indiana that wasn't enough to make up for the other mediocre years. At UC that may not be the case. Huggins was set for life on one final 4 followed by an elite 8 and a bunch of first and second round knockouts until he screwed up. Then again Cronin may have the same problem Davis did of being the guy to follow "the guy" but winning quiets a lot of critics for a while at least.

Cronin silenced his critics last year but after a disappointing coaching job this year some have come back out. I'm not sure why it is so out of bounds to criticize his performance.

 

[UCBearcats]

Cronin silenced his critics last year but after a disappointing coaching job this year some have come back out. I'm not sure why it is so out of bounds to criticize his performance.

It's not out of bounds to criticize his performance, especially when it's warranted to do so. There are certain people on these boards who think that if you criticize Mick you hate him, love Huggins, are stuck in the past and will never like Mick. There are also many people who overstate the job that he has actually done since he's been here.

The debate in and of itself is a good debate because there are valid arguments on both sides. Mick isn't a terrible coach and he's done a better than average job here. The problem for some fans, myself included, is that better than average is not good enough. If you're a fan and you think better than average is enough then so be it, but who are you to tell me what my expectations should be? Sports are competitive, the goal should be to win championships. It's not like we're rooting for Wright State and demanding they win or be in contention to win a national championship.

Obviously this way of thinking isn't that far fetched when you see guys like Tubby Smith getting fired from places like Minnesota or Bruce Webber from Illinois or Ben Howland from UCLA. There are plenty of examples where good to average coaches have been fired from programs (both better and worse than ours historically) for not competing for Final 4's or conference titles or national titles.

The biggest fear I have as a UC fan is exactly what's taking place right now. Mick does an average job, nothing great but enough to not get fired. Then our fanbase starts having conversations about how we shouldn't expect anything better because we're just little old UC and we should be happy to be outside the top 25 and not really compete for anything other than an NCAA bid. This is what the Bengals have done to people in Cincinnati and it's already starting to happen with our fanbase.

If Mick wins and wins big I'll gladly eat my words and be the grand marshal at the Mick Day parade. But for some of you to pretend like you're amazed this argument even exists you're living in a fantasy land. If you truly believe that we're not that good of a program and we should just be happy with what we have then are you really even a sports fan? Do you really care? Or do you just like posting stuff on message boards and sounding smart and making up fake "insider info"?

I guarantee that for those of you who think we should be happy because we're just UC and we've never really been that good that our AD doesn't share in your feelings. At least not yet.......hopefully not ever.

If Mick wins big the majority of people will stop complaining, are there some idiots out there who will never like Mick and are caught up on Huggs? Sure there are, just like there's the Ralph's and BearcatMick's on the opposite end of the spectrum.

 

[joshuag12000]

Cronin silenced his critics last year but after a disappointing coaching job this year some have come back out. I'm not sure why it is so out of bounds to criticize his performance.

I don't think it's completely out of bounds to criticize his performance. I do so myself sometimes. Just being the guy after Huggins brings more extreme criticism due to so many wanting him to fail. As a Bearcat fan I want to see him succeed. His teams have improved every year until this year. This year's team had so much expectation that they couldn't live up to. It was Mick's job to win games and not living up to the expectation this year is gonna fall back on him. In the end they just weren't as good as the expectations, but it's just a one year set back in which they still had some success. It just doesn't come fast enough for some people.

 

[Bearcat04]

Obviously this way of thinking isn't that far fetched when you see guys like Tubby Smith getting fired from places like Minnesota or Bruce Webber from Illinois or Ben Howland from UCLA. There are plenty of examples where good to average coaches have been fired from programs (both better and worse than ours historically) for not competing for Final 4's or conference titles or national titles.

Those guys are also not alumni of those universities and they don't have cash strapped athletic departments. Last year Minnesota and UCLA brought in over $154M in combined athletic revenue. UC didn't even top $40M. Other programs have the money to chase unrealistic expectations.

 

[UCBearcats]

Those guys are also not alumni of those universities and they don't have cash strapped athletic departments. Last year Minnesota and UCLA brought in over $154M in combined athletic revenue. UC didn't even top $40M. Other programs have the money to chase unrealistic expectations.

Honestly, I don't buy the whole money argument that people on this site always try to make. You don't have any clue what the hell you're talking about when you start talking athletic budgets at UC and neither do I. All I know is that Mick gets paid pretty well, we didn't have any problem paying Huggins a top salary when he was here and there was hardly any mention of money when it came to bringing over Tommy T. This University can afford to pay a coach 2 mil/ year if they needed to which would pretty much get you anyone except the top 10 highest paid coaches in the country. I'm fairly certain that if the right guy was available and the mutual desire was there to make a move money wouldn't be as big of an issue as people try to make it out to be.

 

[westsidecat]

When was it ever a top 10 job? Sorry, I wasn't alive when Oscar played but if that is how far back you have to go, then I would argue it was never actually a top 10 job.

lol are you serious?

uc was a top 10 program during huggs year. when espn did ranking for programs during decades, uc was 4 from 1960-1970 and 7 from 1990-2000.

 

[westsidecat]

i find it funny that some fans are happy with just making the tourney. even at a 10 with is the worst seed uc has ever had.

forget about being ranked, winning a conference, winning a conference tourney, just grab a 10 seed,brick some free throws, go one and done, and call it a day.

 

[westsidecat]

Where were all these "big name coaches" when the UC job was available? I don't seem to remember them knocking on the door for the job. This 10% who can't let go of the past is the cause for the fanbase splinter. It still drives me nuts that it was perfectly acceptable to "just make the tournament from '97-'05 but now you have people saying UC fans are settling and we need a new coach. There is nothing Mick Cronin will ever do to sway this bunch. I am convinced of that. They disappear when the team wins and pop up at any opportunity to go negative. Again, let me ask where were those big name coaches when the job was available? And if some are NOW willing to look at the job IF it ever came open, guess who you'd have to thank.....Mick Cronin, because of what he's done to restore the program.

well, not many names were let out because uc did a great job of keeping things quiet. skip prosser was one name that was throwen out.

i'm pretty sure no one thought it would be mick..even the national media, who was surprised uc didn't get a big name for a big time job.

 

[BearcatMick]

i find it funny that some fans are happy with just making the tourney. even at a 10 with is the worst seed uc has ever had.

forget about being ranked, winning a conference, winning a conference tourney, just grab a 10 seed,brick some free throws, go one and done, and call it a day.

Mick will lead uc to multiple national championships starting next year. We are lucky to have him

 

[SlamJam]

i find it funny that some fans are happy with just making the tourney. even at a 10 with is the worst seed uc has ever had.

forget about being ranked, winning a conference, winning a conference tourney, just grab a 10 seed,brick some free throws, go one and done, and call it a day.

If you were a big fan of Huggins- you were likely happy just making the tournament. Especially considering his last 9 years at UC he went to the second weekend just one time.