UCLA

[JumpinJack5]

If my memory serves me (and it often does not), but didn't we used to get invitations to early season mini-tournaments (like Vegas) more frequently than we have been? Maybe I'm thinking too far back.

Maybe under Huggins, but it isn't a comparable situation. We played in Maui with Mick a few years ago, Vegas this past year, etc., but there is a reason programs like UNC, Duke, and Gonzaga get these tourneys. Consistency takes time, and UC is almost finished in re establishing its basketball brand that Huggs built up over time. I truly believed we did everything we could to mix up the schedule, but if the other team doesn't want to play, it does you no good.

 

[TheLongHaul]

And only one team from a conf could play in each tournament.

 

[SlamJam]

let's see 14 stright with a final four, a few elite eights, sweet sixteens.

three stright with a 3-3 record.

the people who try and discredit a man because of what he did in march are happy with a 3-3 record in march after 7 years.

does this make sense to you?

Well, you made an argument for Huggins saying "Talk to me when Mick makes 14 NCAAs in a row"

And you made an argument right before that against Mick saying "People are just happy making the tournament now".

So, no, it doesn't. Because you contradict yourself. Which, a lot of Huggins fans do. They have to, because frankly Huggins did next to nothing in his last 9 seasons as HC (One sweet 16). He was going to be fired soon regardless of off court actions because he was one of the biggest underachievers in the NCAA. Like you said- making the tournament isn't good enough...and that's all Huggins did his last 9 years.

 

[Bearcat04]

Do you really think that the 100-199 teams have any leverage as to how much they can charge us for the privilege of inflating our RPI (which playing them won't do). We're the name team. We're the draw. That's where they make their bucks, not vice versa.

They absolutely do, because the big budget teams will always pay. Otherwise, what is the point of playing teams 300+ if they kill your RPI and SOS? No coach with any aspiration of making the tournament wants to schedule those teams, but you have to fill out your schedule somehow. I'm tired of talking money and budget on this site because it does sound like an excuse, but it's a reality. I wish more fans would understand that. The final result always falls on the coach, but it's still fair to point out how many hoops they have to jump through compared to the elite programs. Scheduling is just one of many of pitfalls we've had to had to deal with lately. Thankfully it looks like Whit has made a concerted effort to change that.

 

[bearcat jeff]

Well, you made an argument for Huggins saying "Talk to me when Mick makes 14 NCAAs in a row"

And you made an argument right before that against Mick saying "People are just happy making the tournament now".

So, no, it doesn't. Because you contradict yourself. Which, a lot of Huggins fans do. They have to, because frankly Huggins did next to nothing in his last 9 seasons as HC (One sweet 16). He was going to be fired soon regardless of off court actions because he was one of the biggest underachievers in the NCAA. Like you said- making the tournament isn't good enough...and that's all Huggins did his last 9 years.

It's like anything when people long for the "good old days." It gets exaggerated. 1992-1996 are seen as the way it was throughout that time period and it simply wasn't the case. I guess it's perspective. Those people like the 1, 2, 3 seeds we got after 1996 and first or second round flame outs against lower seeds and fail to remember that at UC Huggins never beat a higher seed in the NCAA tournament.

 

[cincycpaw]

This argument is really old. I find it really ironic that the people that say to move on keep this argument alive.

Mick has not yet achieved what Huggins has as a coach. Huggins career is >>>>> than Mick's right now. But it's early in Mick's career. Let's see where this plays out. Let's not forget, Huggins went to the Final Four AFTER leaving Cincinnati. Mick hasn;t seen 1 yet. SO, as of now, there is no comparison.

 

[Amberlycolonel]

It's like anything when people long for the "good old days." It gets exaggerated. 1992-1996 are seen as the way it was throughout that time period and it simply wasn't the case. I guess it's perspective. Those people like the 1, 2, 3 seeds we got after 1996 and first or second round flame outs against lower seeds and fail to remember that at UC Huggins never beat a higher seed in the NCAA tournament.

March Madness is a 3 week affair. 1 fun season is all fall and winter. People forget that. They would rather have that crack high for an hour instead of a nice full stomach all week.

 

[bearcat jeff]

March Madness is a 3 week affair. 1 fun season is all fall and winter. People forget that. They would rather have that crack high for an hour instead of a nice full stomach all week.

No, I want both, but if I had to chose one it'd be March. Again, it's just perspective.

 

[L-T]

It's like anything when people long for the "good old days." It gets exaggerated. 1992-1996 are seen as the way it was throughout that time period and it simply wasn't the case. I guess it's perspective. Those people like the 1, 2, 3 seeds we got after 1996 and first or second round flame outs against lower seeds and fail to remember that at UC Huggins never beat a higher seed in the NCAA tournament.

Jeff, you're always asking people to provide facts, but you don't practice what you preach. Again, I'll post the following...

FINAL AP POLL
1997 10
1998 9
1999 11
2000 7
2001 N/R
2002 5
2003 N/R
2004 11
2005 23

We even made the NCAA with a 17-11 record in 2003...Now that's respect!

During that span, we had the National Player of the Year and 1st pick in the NBA draft-Martin, and another 1st team all-american-Logan. In one of those years, we spent almost the entire season at #1 in the nation. 3 of the 9 years, we finished the season in the top 10 and 2 others at 11. We even made the tournament in the worst of those 9 years with a 17-11 record which demonstrates absolutely the respect that our program had nationally.

For weeks now, all through these threads, people have made excuses for Mick because of Cashmere's knee. Yet, we were the odds on favorite to win the national championship till Martin got hurt. If your going to downplay our accomplishments during that period, then lets not wine about Cash's knee and focus more attention on the coach where it should because you lump the Martin team with all the others in your disrespect of that period, so you can't be hypocritical in this forum and wine about Cash. By the way, the coach said Cash wouldn't be playing if his knee wasn't healthy.

To sum it up, the season is 5 months long. March Madness is a few weeks. The fan experience of going to a sold out arena, or on a bad night, still 10-11,000 and rooting for a team that is #1 in the nation, or often ranked in the top 10, far exceeds anything Cronin has brought us. Last year was a lot of fun and I came away with a solid view of Mick as our coach...100% supportive. Then this year happened and I won't even rehash it again. A lot of those 2nd round losses were BS...WVU banking in a last second half court shot at the buzzer, the horrendous traveling call against Darnell Burton against Iowa st., and overtime 105-102 loss to a vastly "under-seeded" UCLA, etc. Your view of those times is your opinion and they are not supported with facts....and when you say Mick has us back to that level, that too is not supported with facts. You say, those teams were loved locally, but not respected nationally, but those rankings above are "facts", and they say you are wrong.

Notice, 100% of what I've said here is factual...as usual. I've never said Mick should be fired. I've went back and forth with him ever since he has been here. I totally was on board with him after last season. All I'm saying now is he has to do better than this. We are not steadily improving. This year was a significant downturn and honestly embarrassing to watch and most of the national announcers ripped us all year. Mick has done a marvelous job with graduation, reputation, handled the X fight exceptionally well, he's a UC guy, "might stay here forever, brought us back from a difficult situation, etc...all great things! But, we can't be happy now with just making the tournament, a 10th place league finish, rarely being ranked in 7 years, 1st round loss to a mid-major, etc. Having a top 10 recruiting class, being ranked for most of the season, a longer run in the NCAA, etc. are all things that demonstrate Mick is moving us forward and taking a step in the right direction, and that's what he has to do now. He can coach us for the next 30 years, but not at the level we're at now. By the way, great job to Mick and Whit for scheduling Michigan. Let's see more of the same from here on out!

 

[UCBearcats]

Jeff, you're always asking people to provide facts, but you don't practice what you preach. Again, I'll post the following...

FINAL AP POLL
1997 10
1998 9
1999 11
2000 7
2001 N/R
2002 5
2003 N/R
2004 11
2005 23

We even made the NCAA with a 17-11 record in 2003...Now that's respect!

During that span, we had the National Player of the Year and 1st pick in the NBA draft-Martin, and another 1st team all-american-Logan. In one of those years, we spent almost the entire season at #1 in the nation. 3 of the 9 years, we finished the season in the top 10 and 2 others at 11. We even made the tournament in the worst of those 9 years with a 17-11 record which demonstrates absolutely the respect that our program had nationally.

For weeks now, all through these threads, people have made excuses for Mick because of Cashmere's knee. Yet, we were the odds on favorite to win the national championship till Martin got hurt. If your going to downplay our accomplishments during that period, then lets not wine about Cash's knee and focus more attention on the coach where it should because you lump the Martin team with all the others in your disrespect of that period, so you can't be hypocritical in this forum and wine about Cash. By the way, the coach said Cash wouldn't be playing if his knee wasn't healthy.

To sum it up, the season is 5 months long. March Madness is a few weeks. The fan experience of going to a sold out arena, or on a bad night, still 10-11,000 and rooting for a team that is #1 in the nation, or often ranked in the top 10, far exceeds anything Cronin has brought us. Last year was a lot of fun and I came away with a solid view of Mick as our coach...100% supportive. Then this year happened and I won't even rehash it again. A lot of those 2nd round losses were BS...WVU banking in a last second half court shot at the buzzer, the horrendous traveling call against Darnell Burton against Iowa st., and overtime 105-102 loss to a vastly "under-seeded" UCLA, etc. Your view of those times is your opinion and they are not supported with facts....and when you say Mick has us back to that level, that too is not supported with facts. You say, those teams were loved locally, but not respected nationally, but those rankings above are "facts", and they say you are wrong.

Notice, 100% of what I've said here is factual...as usual. I've never said Mick should be fired. I've went back and forth with him ever since he has been here. I totally was on board with him after last season. All I'm saying now is he has to do better than this. We are not steadily improving. This year was a significant downturn and honestly embarrassing to watch and most of the national announcers ripped us all year. Mick has done a marvelous job with graduation, reputation, handled the X fight exceptionally well, he's a UC guy, "might stay here forever, brought us back from a difficult situation, etc...all great things! But, we can't be happy now with just making the tournament, a 10th place league finish, rarely being ranked in 7 years, 1st round loss to a mid-major, etc. Having a top 10 recruiting class, being ranked for most of the season, a longer run in the NCAA, etc. are all things that demonstrate Mick is moving us forward and taking a step in the right direction, and that's what he has to do now. He can coach us for the next 30 years, but not at the level we're at now. By the way, great job to Mick and Whit for scheduling Michigan. Let's see more of the same from here on out!

This is a great post, too bad most will probably single out one or two sentences they don't agree with and rip you for it.

There's no doubt those teams were respected nationally and also feared. No one wanted to play us back then. We had Dickie V coming to the shoe 4 or 5 times a year and we were in Conference USA. Do you know how good we had to be to get the respect we got coming from CUSA? I don't think ESPN was sending their premiere crew to the UC vs DePaul game because of DePaul.

Not to mention that if K-Mart doesn't break his leg there's probably a national championship sandwiched right in the middle.

This debate however is tired and played out. BearcatJeff summed it up in one of his recent posts by stating that he's more concerned about March than the rest of the season. Some people feel that way and that's fine. I know there were a lot of UC fans who were really frustrated with the way we always got bounced out of the tourney early, I was too. If you put most of the importance on March then you're going to look at those years and feel like they were underwhelming. What I remember is going to the games (I was in high school then) and the energy in the stands and watching us on ESPN and being ranked in the top 10. Now that I'm older and I pay my own way into supporting this athletic program I want that back.

 

[ralph1950]

This argument is really old. I find it really ironic that the people that say to move on keep this argument alive.

Mick has not yet achieved what Huggins has as a coach. Huggins career is >>>>> than Mick's right now. But it's early in Mick's career. Let's see where this plays out. Let's not forget, Huggins went to the Final Four AFTER leaving Cincinnati. Mick hasn;t seen 1 yet. SO, as of now, there is no comparison.

Huggins went to the final 4 with John Belien's recruits, he did not do so well this year, his first at WVU without a Belein recruit. Huggins recruiting went steadily downhill, Mick had to plead and beg Huggins to take Steve Logan, Huggins did not want him. Then came one of the worst recruiting mistakes of all time when he chose to give the last scholarship of that year to Jihad Mohammed instead of Chris Lofton.

 

[ralph1950]

Mick resurrected the UC program from the dead after Huggins/Kennedy destroyed it. UC has now been to the last 3 consectutive NCAA tourney's with Mick as head coach, Kentucky/Calipari have not .

You do not understand how difficult it is to be in the NCAA tourney, much less 3 consectutive.

 

[WAITE HOYT 2]

nice article about Louisville that explains some of Micks coaching style considering Pitino was one of his mentors.

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/ncaab--rick-pitino-still-cherishes-one-stat-above-others-233301763.html

 

[WAITE HOYT 2]

This argument is really old. I find it really ironic that the people that say to move on keep this argument alive.

Mick has not yet achieved what Huggins has as a coach. Huggins career is >>>>> than Mick's right now. But it's early in Mick's career. Let's see where this plays out. Let's not forget, Huggins went to the Final Four AFTER leaving Cincinnati. Mick hasn;t seen 1 yet. SO, as of now, there is no comparison.

Your absolutely right,there is no comparison. Coach Huggins achievements outweigh Micks at this point in time. Huggins inherited a mess at UC as well. He quickly overcame the situation. Mick is trying to elevate the program. You can compare conferences but in the end they both have done a good job. Mick is still building his resume. Some don't think he will measure up and lsome do. Time will tell. Again both have been good for the university.

 

[bearcat1]

Your absolutely right,there is no comparison. Coach Huggins achievements outweigh Micks at this point in time. Huggins inherited a mess at UC as well. He quickly overcame the situation. Mick is trying to elevate the program. You can compare conferences but in the end they both have done a good job. Mick is still building his resume. Some don't think he will measure up and lsome do. Time will tell. Again both have been good for the university.

Good post. One thing that everyone has to remember is that Huggins was not restricted on who he could bring in when he first got the job. He was able to mine the JUCO ranks, which were much more fertile at that time than in 2006, when Cronin took over. Additionally, because of the new APR rules, Cronin could not bring in players who were academic risks, as we would have had a situation that UConn dealt with last year. Kennedy left Cronin in a much worse postion than what Huggins inherited, and a tougher coference to do it in. Just some prepective.

 

[cincycpaw]

Huggins went to the final 4 with John Belien's recruits, he did not do so well this year, his first at WVU without a Belein recruit. Huggins recruiting went steadily downhill, Mick had to plead and beg Huggins to take Steve Logan, Huggins did not want him. Then came one of the worst recruiting mistakes of all time when he chose to give the last scholarship of that year to Jihad Mohammed instead of Chris Lofton.

He also went to one with Cincy with his own recruits. Mick hasn't. Just a fact.

Maybe Mick needs an assistant coach to beg and plead him to recruit someone that can put the ball in the basket. It is, after all, the whole objective of the game.

Would you like to go through the list of Cronin's recruiting misses? All coaches have them.

 

[cincycpaw]

Good post. One thing that everyone has to remember is that Huggins was not restricted on who he could bring in when he first got the job. He was able to mine the JUCO ranks, which were much more fertile at that time than in 2006, when Cronin took over. Additionally, because of the new APR rules, Cronin could not bring in players who were academic risks, as we would have had a situation that UConn dealt with last year. Kennedy left Cronin in a much worse postion than what Huggins inherited, and a tougher coference to do it in. Just some prepective.

And an easier conference to recruit to. Just some perspective.

 

[L-T]

Your absolutely right,there is no comparison. Coach Huggins achievements outweigh Micks at this point in time. Huggins inherited a mess at UC as well. He quickly overcame the situation. Mick is trying to elevate the program. You can compare conferences but in the end they both have done a good job. Mick is still building his resume. Some don't think he will measure up and lsome do. Time will tell. Again both have been good for the university.

I want to take this opportunity to say that this is one of the best posts that I have ever read on any of these forums. This is a great example of the kind of post that would stop all the arguing and fights on these forums. Give credit to both Huggins and Mick. They both deserve it!!!! Too often, many on here, and all the other forums, try to tear down Huggins and those teams as a way to build up Mick. Thats where everything falls apart and drives a wedge between our fanbase.

Both coaches have done great. Huggins record speaks for itself. As a fan, those days were incredible fun. He brought us from truly nothing...10 years of sustained losing and no tournaments, starting a football player and a Juco forward as his point guard. Mick was handed a horrible situation as well and he rose out of the ashes and has us back to at least making the NCAA tournament. He is young and a work in process and I'll give him the benefit of the doubt and hope more improvement is coming. The schedule announcement yesterday is exciting. That's a good sign. This years recruiting shows promise. That's another good sign. My fingers are crossed and I'm just hoping and praying that what I saw on the court this year was "just one of those years". Unfortunately, I believe this next season will be a struggle, unless these new guys make a huge impact or our current guys improve dramatically.

But kudos to Waite for an outstanding post...the kind of post that can unite fans instead of driving them apart!

 

[WAITE HOYT 2]

Good post. One thing that everyone has to remember is that Huggins was not restricted on who he could bring in when he first got the job. He was able to mine the JUCO ranks, which were much more fertile at that time than in 2006, when Cronin took over. Additionally, because of the new APR rules, Cronin could not bring in players who were academic risks, as we would have had a situation that UConn dealt with last year. Kennedy left Cronin in a much worse postion than what Huggins inherited, and a tougher coference to do it in. Just some prepective.

I'm not debating that. They both had obstacles. They were both good for the university. Each has had their place in the history of our program. To say one had it tougher is not important to me. They both have gotten good results. Its Micks time now. Bob is gone and I'll always respect him for putting UC back on the map after the Yates years.

 

[WAITE HOYT 2]

I want to take this opportunity to say that this is one of the best posts that I have ever read on any of these forums. This is a great example of the kind of post that would stop all the arguing and fights on these forums. Give credit to both Huggins and Mick. They both deserve it!!!! Too often, many on here, and all the other forums, try to tear down Huggins and those teams as a way to build up Mick. Thats where everything falls apart and drives a wedge between our fanbase.

Both coaches have done great. Huggins record speaks for itself. As a fan, those days were incredible fun. He brought us from truly nothing...10 years of sustained losing and no tournaments, starting a football player and a Juco forward as his point guard. Mick was handed a horrible situation as well and he rose out of the ashes and has us back to at least making the NCAA tournament. He is young and a work in process and I'll give him the benefit of the doubt and hope more improvement is coming. The schedule announcement yesterday is exciting. That's a good sign. This years recruiting shows promise. That's another good sign. My fingers are crossed and I'm just hoping and praying that what I saw on the court this year was "just one of those years". Unfortunately, I believe this next season will be a struggle, unless these new guys make a huge impact or our current guys improve dramatically.

But kudos to Waite for an outstanding post...the kind of post that can unite fans instead of driving them apart!

Thanks L_T. I went to the games when coach Huggins roamed the sideline and I go now that Mick is the coach. I can honestly say I've never rooted against the Cats. Hell, my Kids went to other Universities and they still root for the Cats. I was disappointed when Bob was fired but I still follow and root for the home team. If people out there want Mick to fail they are not true fans of the program.